Toio

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YodaMaster said:
KNI will still have French culture? This is the culture in revolt.txt. If we remove it too, shouldn't we change French to Maltese in revolt.txt then?

yes we can remove french as well,

The french supplied the bulk of the knights, if you want you can change,
 

unmerged(40707)

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Anyway, it could be strange to remove Italian and French cultures if KNI used them to expand in Italy and France (we can't punish a player for this...).

This is not the case if KNI just appeared in Malta. In this case only we could just have Maltese culture in revolt.txt and we don't need to add or remove cultures in corresponding events.
 

Toio

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YodaMaster said:
Anyway, it could be strange to remove Italian and French cultures if KNI used them to expand in Italy and France (we can't punish a player for this...).

This is not the case if KNI just appeared in Malta. In this case only we could just have Maltese culture in revolt.txt and we don't need to add or remove cultures in corresponding events.

If you are thinking for the player.

then italian should not be included as historically they had their own order, Order of saint stefano.. Besides if we give them italian culture, there is no point in keeping maltese as discussed.

I feel , if you really want to give them (KNI) another culture, then it must be french as they supplied the majority of knights and leaders

Ps. when KNI move to malta , these still retain french, italian, maltese and GREEK
 
Last edited:

unmerged(40707)

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Proposed changes to KNI cultures:

In 1419_KNI_Order_St_John.inc:
Code:
	culture = {
		type = french
		[COLOR=Red]type = italian[/COLOR]
	}

In 1520_KNI_Order_St_John.inc (according to KNI_3536):
Code:
	culture = {
		type = french
		[COLOR=Yellow]type = greek[/COLOR]
		[COLOR=Red]type = italian[/COLOR]
	}


In 1648_KNI_Order of St John.inc:
Code:
	culture = {
		type = maltese
		type = french
		[COLOR=Red]type = italian[/COLOR]
	}

In revolt.txt:
Code:
KNI = { #The Knights
	revolt = no
	date = { year = 1523 }
	expirydate = { year = 1799 }
	minimum = { 819 }
	extra = { }
	capital = 819
	group = latin
	culture = [COLOR=Yellow]maltese[/COLOR]
	#ai = "crusader.ai"
	ai = "SmallCRC0.ai"
}
Remember KNI can't revolt.

Modified events:
Code:
#(1520-1820) The Order of St. John accepts Malta (AI only)
#by Crook modified by Fodoron
event = {
	id = 3540
	trigger = {
		event = 285123 #SPA: Carlos generous offer to the Hospitallers (creation of KNI)
	}
	country = KNI
	name = "EVENTNAME3540" #The Order of St. John accepts Malta
	desc = "EVENTHIST285123"
	#-#

	date = { year = 1520 }
	offset = 100
	deathdate = { year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3540A" #Back in the game
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 100 }
		command = { type = removecore which = 481 } #Rhodes
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = [COLOR=Yellow]french[/COLOR] }
		[COLOR=Red]command = { type = add_countryculture which = italian }[/COLOR]
	}
}
#-#When the Order of St. John was expelled from Rhodes in 1523, it underwent a crisis. Their possessions were being confiscated all over Europe, both by Catholic, and Protestant rulers, their income dwindled, their recruits stopped coming. They desperately needed a base, preferably by reconquering Rhodes, otherwise an island in the Aegean, but nobody helped and Venice opposed them. Europe was at war and there was no place for their neutrality. The emperor Carlos however came up with a master idea. He offered Malta to the Hospitallers. Malta was difficult to defend from the growing Ottoman power, but the Knights were a tough breed. They would give their life defending his shipping lines with Sicily. In 1524 the Hospitallers sent a commission to Malta. Their report was very negative. The island could not sustain itself, and the defences were very poor. Then Carlos decided to include Tripoli in the deal as a take it all or leave it all. The Knights opinion on Tripoli was even worse. They did not have the resources to upgrade its defences. But having no other option, the Chapter General decided in 1527 to accept the offer with the opposition of the French Langues. They still had hopes of recovering Rhodes, but in 1530 they gave up and moved to Malta, taking possession also of Tripoli. From then on, the Spaniards and the Knights of St. John would fight their battles in North Africa together.

Code:
#(1523-1798) The Order of St. John is offered Malta
#by Crook modified by Fodoron
event = {
	id = 24001 #triggered by SPA_285124 A
	random = no
	country = KNI
	name = "EVENTNAME24001" #The Order of St. John is offered Malta
	desc = "EVENTHIST285123"
	#-#

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME24001A" #It solves our problem
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 400 }
		command = { type = treasury value = 100 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = removecore which = 481 } #Rhodes
		command = { type = addcore which = 819 } #Malta
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = remove_countryculture which = french }
		command = { type = remove_countryculture which = greek }[/COLOR]
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = maltese }
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = add_countryculture which = french }[/COLOR]
		[COLOR=Red]command = { type = add_countryculture which = italian }[/COLOR]
		command = { type = capital which = 819 } #Malta
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = TUR value = 481 } #Rhodes
		command = { type = inf which = 819 value = 3000 } #Malta
	}
}

Code:
#(1530-1610) Order contemplates a move to Tripoli
#by Crook
event = {
	id = 24004
	random = no
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 740 data = -1 }
		owned = { province = 819 data = -1 }
		core = { province = 819 data = -1 }
		continent = europe #always true at this point if no Alternative Events
	}
	country = KNI
	name = "EVENTNAME24004" #Tripoli gamble
	desc = "EVENTHIST24004"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1530 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1610 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME24004A" #It's not worth it
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME24004B" #Move to Tripoli
		[COLOR=Red]command = { type = remove_countryculture which = maltese }[/COLOR]
		command = { type = capital which = 740 } #Tripolitania
		command = { type = addcore which = 740 } #Tripolitania
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -50 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = 740 value = 1 } #Tripolitania
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 24056 } #KNI: Our Garrison in Tripoli
	}
}
#-#After the capture of Tripoli, Carlos V left the Knights of St. John in charge of the defenses of this North African city. The Grandmaster Juan de Omedes was not particularly happy about this new burden, as it proved to be a drain on the Knights' budget and was very hard to defend. Despite this, Tripoli held its own advantages. Mainly it had richer soils than the rocks of Malta and more fresh water, which would have cut the Knights' dependence on Carlos's governors in Sicily. For a while, the idea of moving to Tripoli was seriously entertained by the Order, but bureaucratic delays and the eventual loss of Tripoli buried the idea before it could become a reality.

Code:
#(1531-1798) The Hospitallers consider a change of see (fantasy)
#by Fodoron
event = {
	id = 201002
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 819 data = KNI } #Malta
		owned = { province = 481 data = KNI } #Rhodes
		NOT = {
			event = 24001 #KNI: The Order of St. John is offered Malta (Knights moved already)
			event = 285123 #SPA: Carlos generous offer to the Hospitallers (Knights created at Malta)
			[COLOR=Yellow]event = 111033 #ARG: Enric I's generous offer to the Hospitallers (Knights created at Malta)[/COLOR]
			event = 338026 #ProvinceSpec*819: The Hospitallers request Malta (Knights created at Malta)
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = KNI
	name = "EVENTNAME201002" #The Hospitallers consider a change of see
	desc = "EVENTHIST201002"
	#-#

	date = { year = 1531 }
	offset = 300
	deathdate = { day = 9 month = june year = 1798 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME201002A" #Move closer to our patrons
		command = { type = treasury value = -50 } #Moving cost
		command = { type = vp value = -50 } #Cowardice
		command = { type = stability value = -3 } #Cowardice
		command = { type = addcore which = 819 } #Malta
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = remove_countryculture which = french }
		command = { type = remove_countryculture which = greek }[/COLOR]
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = maltese }
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = add_countryculture which = french }[/COLOR]
		command = { type = capital which = 819 } #Malta
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME201002B" #Remain close to our enemies
		command = { type = vp value = 50 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
	}
}
#-#Milord, moving our see to Malta would make us dependent on Sicily for water and food, and most knights reject moving away from the enemies of Christendom. However it would allow us to get prompt help from our patrons in case of attack. What do you think?
 
Last edited:

Therion

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Actually, if there's a culture that the Order shouldn't have, that would be Maltese - which was merely a language of the lower classes - a "kitchen language" as it was called, and its status only heightened in the early 20th century by the English in order to combat internal pan-Italianism and irredentism. Probably, in the EU2 timeframe, Italian culture would be more suitable for Malta. The Order had eight langues: Aragon/Navarre, Auvergne, Castile/Portugal, England, France, Germany, Italy and Provence. The Order had a cultural affinity with Italy and most grandmasters were French, so the corresponding two cultures should suffice.
 

unmerged(40707)

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I understand but "Maltese" culture is for gameplay purpose only and this avoids giving Italian culture to Order (and possible exploit with Order expanding in Italy if human controlled...) but without penalty for taxes in Malta.
In the same spirit, this culture becomes the primary one for colonization purpose. Colonies couldn't be French.
 

Pietercornelis

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I propose a change in this event, because hostaging to Hungary gives no more money then any of the other options:

Code:
#(1483) Pierre d'Aubusson
#By Pietercornelis
event = {
	id = 3535
	random = no
	country = KNI
	name = "EVENTNAME3535" #Pierre d'Aubusson
	desc = "EVENTHIST3535"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1483 }
	offset = 360
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1484 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3535A" #Hostage to Papacy for gold and Cardinal appointment
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -20 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -20 }
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
		command = { type = treasury value = 200 }
		command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = 1 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3535B" #Hostage to Hungary for gold
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -20 }
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -20 }
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
		command = { type = treasury value = [COLOR=Red]200[/COLOR][COLOR=Yellow]250 [/COLOR] }
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3535C" #Hostage to Venice for gold and trade rights
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -20 }
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -20 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
		command = { type = treasury value = 200 }
		command = { type = merchants value = 6 }
	}
	action_d = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3535D" #Keep Our Word with the Turks
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 100 }
		command = { type = treasury value = 200 }
	}
}
#-#The Grandmaster Hospitaler d'Aubusson who so successfully had defended Rhodos against the previous sultan, Mehmed II, imprisoned the brother of the Turkish sultan Bayezid II despite a promise of safe conduct in 1483. Such a prestigious captive was obviously a strong negotiation asset for many of the enemies of the Ottoman Empire and several countries was prepared to pay large sums for him.
 
Last edited:

Maximilliano

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Question: Why was it decided that the Knights souldn't become the KoJ and just get their flag? Gameplay issues? And perhaps there should be a similar fantasy oppurtunity to seize Constantinople from the Byzantines before the turks do, and reestablish the Latin Empire of 1204?
 

Gottskalk

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And perhaps there should be a similar fantasy oppurtunity to seize Constantinople from the Byzantines before the turks do, and reestablish the Latin Empire of 1204?

humm although i would really like to try that out i think that would maybe be quite unrealistic when you consider how short lived it actually was (wikipedia says 1204-1261). I don´t know either how enthusiastic the papacy would be about such a venture.
 

Bordic

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Maximilliano said:
Question: Why was it decided that the Knights souldn't become the KoJ and just get their flag? Gameplay issues?
I believe because of "tag" (= more customized countries in the game) shortage, iirc.
 

unmerged(40707)

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Yes. No need to waste a tag when a flag change is sufficient. The name of the country can't be changed in this case but it is just an option (Crusader), almost fantasy...
 

Toio

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The event which makes the knights move from Rhodes to MAlta

Issue is the knights should still retain a core on Rhodes for the entire game..
 

unmerged(40707)

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Toio said:
The event which makes the knights move from Rhodes to MAlta

Issue is the knights should still retain a core on Rhodes for the entire game..
Why? Did Knights really try to reconquer the island? Even if it is the case, they didn't succed and, IMHO, it is the same as giving a core on Malta to OE => unwanted result.

Core on Rhodes is not included as extra for KNI entry in revolt.txt (and thus can't defect even if rebels controlled for too long under Ottoman rule).

Anyway, it is easy for a player to avoid the move to Malta.
 

Toio

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YodaMaster said:
Why? Did Knights really try to reconquer the island? Even if it is the case, they didn't succed and, IMHO, it is the same as giving a core on Malta to OE => unwanted result.

Core on Rhodes is not included as extra for KNI entry in revolt.txt (and thus can't defect even if rebels controlled for too long under Ottoman rule).

Anyway, it is easy for a player to avoid the move to Malta.


but KNI retain a core on rhodes is malta revolts from SPA prior to knights move from rhodes.
so, KNI own rhodes and malta..........what difference is there?
 

unmerged(40707)

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Toio said:
but KNI retain a core on rhodes is malta revolts from SPA prior to knights move from rhodes.
so, KNI own rhodes and malta..........what difference is there?
Yes but capital is still in Rhodes in this case and this is not sufficient for the move to Malta to be avoided (and loss of core on Rhodes as effect).