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unmerged(40707)

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Well, I got the option to become King of France, but my goal was playing Burgundy right, so there would be something left when Charles V comes along. In most games Burgundy gets chopped up (especially when I play Castille/Spain), so I wanted to try the other way around.
If you become France, salic law forbid the crown to females... Mary would have been Duchess of Burgundy only... with a husband to find anyway! ;)

Louis (XI) as Dauphin (even if Dauphiné is no more) would have inherited the Crown of France rightfully.

Talking (a)historically, if France was divided between its various nobles and Charles the Rash died suddenly, wouldn't the same pattern prevail? Mary of Burgundy looking for a wedding candidate that can protect the duchy (in my case Maximillian of Austria). And so Charles will inherit later.
This is what happened with no choice for you: Maximilian... and Charles V will inherit.
 
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Bordic

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As ConjurerDragon said, staying in Dijon is the option to become France... if France doesn't exists, of course. I admit this is a bad option for AI if France is on the map and polical borders are mostly historical.

Maybe we could enhance this part instead of forcing the choice in a single event and have a twin event without choice if the political situation is mostly historical. A Burgundian player will have to be sure the event he wants is the one that will be proposed according to some conditions in the triggers and/or not slept by things that could have happened before.

As a conclusion, Burgundy will have the choice only if situation is under the control of Burgundian will (i.e. a player) and AI will avoid the possibility of a "desastrous" choice.

Any thought?

I don't know if this issue was fixed as I haven't carefully read all posts...

What about using a chain of events in the way they were used in the creation of Spain? That is two or three events with double choice, where only the choice b of a third event will definitively follow the ahistorical path. That system reduces the percentage of going ahistorical.

So the Flemish Arts event choices b (1420-1429) won't prevent the Burgundian Capital event (1430-1440) from firing. So for one event firing with 95% probabilities we will have a (at least) two event sequence with a 99,75% percentage of success in moving the capital city in the Lowlands. Hoping not to be wrong with numbers...

Choice A of Flemish Arts event should then sleep the original Burgundian Capital event.
But a new single choice twin event of the latter (testing the Flemish Arts event, of course!) should however fire in 1430-1440 time span and move the capital city to Brussels as to guarantee the historical path.

Then a new event should move the capital city again in the Low countries when the Habsburgs get there. I need to check if an event like this is already in the game.

P.S.: I have already checked. There is already an event to move the capital to Flandern indefinitely! BUR_137081.
 
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Bordic

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Yes! and BUR_137081 is included in 1.58 betas.

Yes, I have seen it. Is there any reason why the flag Habsburg wasn't used instead of testing a single monarch? Maybe is the choice between them irrelevant...
 

Toio

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@ yodamaster and Bordic

I do not understand where you are heading with this and what am I suppose to do ?

IMO the BUR capital should be moved as per my earlier post although an artois move will be hard to achieve in a majority of games
 

unmerged(40707)

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I thing case is closed except more involved possible monarchs according to Bordic' idea of [habsburg] flag use.
 

Bordic

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@ yodamaster and Bordic

I do not understand where you are heading with this and what am I suppose to do ?

IMO the BUR capital should be moved as per my earlier post although an artois move will be hard to achieve in a majority of games
Well I am talking about your posts 1127 and 1131 (your event about Flemish Arts and capital move) and my proposal of fine tuning with current BUR_137000 and BUR_137081 beta.

P.S.: probably as Yoda said at the bottom of page 56, the event about Flemish Arts should be "player" only.
 
Last edited:
Jan 9, 2005
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At some point there will be an English option for Burgundy (depending on WotR player/AI choices for ENG), though I shan't script such a sequence until I finish my other stuff. ;)

The original choice to marry Mary was a brother of Edward IV (to strengthen the Anglo-Burgundian alliance) but both sides were uneasy for obvious dynastic/inheritance reasons, and the possible repercussions.

I shall provide sources nearer the time of course.
 

Bordic

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Wait so what exactly did this thread achieve in terms of deciding how to model the historical and possible ahistorical paths for Burgundy?

iirc:

-historical: in 1515 Burgundy annexed by Spain or (if played by human) Spain annexed by Burgundy and Burgundy renamed Spain (even if multiple choice event permits to stay as Burgundy)

-ahistorical:
1- Lotharingian Kingdom with additional cores between France end HRE
2- to become France herself if the Dauphine loses the HYW.

3- alternative marriage of Mary (not with Max of Austria) in 1477:
"marry another prince instead"
- Burgundy annexed by Palatinate (option for human player to play both)
- Burgundy annexed by Kleve (option for human player to play both)
- Burgundy stays herself with fictional monarchs.

4- historical France annexes all...
 

Strategos' Risk

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-ahistorical:
1- Lotharingian Kingdom with additional cores between France end HRE
2- to become France herself if the Dauphine loses the HYW.

3- alternative marriage of Mary (not with Max of Austria) in 1477:
"marry another prince instead"
- Burgundy annexed by Palatinate (option for human player to play both)
- Burgundy annexed by Kleve (option for human player to play both)

Would it be too much to ask for explanations for the choices above? There's quite a lot of pages of discussion on this.