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Toio

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Garbon

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ok, if thats the rules, then so be it

I didn't say it was the rules, but it seems rather absurd to me to include someone that will never, ever, be used in a historical manner. It's sort of like how we don't include leader entries for leaders whose stats would be 2-2-2 or less.
 

Toio

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I didn't say it was the rules, but it seems rather absurd to me to include someone that will never, ever, be used in a historical manner.

well, thats very hard to predict for the game.
 

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well, thats very hard to predict for the game.

Not really. It is pretty easy to predict that the AI won't send him to fight naval battles against the Mamluks and Turks...and unless there is an event or so encouraging the player to go crusading, he likely won't know to use him either.
 

Toio

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another BUR event plus change to an old one

#(1425-1430) The Flemish Arts
event = {
id = 137083
trigger = {
owned = { province = 380 data = -1 } #Flanders
control = { province = 380 data = -1 } #Flanders
}
random = no
country = BUR
name = "EVENTNAME137083" #The Flemish Arts
desc = "EVENTHIST137083"
#-#The precursors of the Flemish school of arts were located in Dijon, the first capital of the dukes of Burgundy, who established a powerful Flemish-Burgundian political alliance that lasted from 1363 to 1482. Philip III (the Good) moved the Burgundian capital to Bruges and in 1425 hired Jan van Eyck as his painter. The next generation of artists built on van Eyck's heritage and, toward the end of the 15th century, began looking to Italy for pictorial inspiration. Rogier van der Weyden, Petrus Christus, Dirck Bouts, Hugo van der Goes, Hans Memling, and Gerard David brought innovation, but little of their work compared to van Eyck's artistic vision. In 1430, at Bruges, Philip the good also created the order of the Golden Fleece.

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1425 }
offset = 10
deathdate = { day = 31 month = december year = 1429 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME137083A" #Move to Bruges. artistic capital of the north
command = { type = capital which = 380 } #Flanders
command = { type = addcore which = 380 } #Flanders
command = { type = setflag which = [Lowlands] }
command = { type = add_countryculture which = dutch }
command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 1 } #Jan van Eyck
}




#(1430) The Order of the Golden Fleece, by Archeolooginspe
event = {
id = 137302
trigger = {
countrysize = 4
owned = { province = 380 data = -1 } #Flanders
control = { province = 380 data = -1 } #Flanders

}
random = no
country = BUR
name = "EVENTNAME137302" #Golden Fleece
desc = "EVENTHIST137302"
#-#The Order of the Golden Fleece was established in 1430 by Philip the Good, Duke of Burgundy in celebration of the prosperous and wealthy domains united in his person that ran from Flanders to Switzerland. He also used it to keep the local nobility attached to him.

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1430 }
offset = 360
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1431 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME137302A" #Found this order in our honour
command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 1 }
command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 }
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = treasury value = -250 }
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME137302B" #It costs way too much
command = { type = vp value = -5 }
}
}

Bruges is the only home for the order of the Golden Fleece, without BUR controlling Flanders, the order would never have been created.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(40707)

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Not really. It is pretty easy to predict that the AI won't send him to fight naval battles against the Mamluks and Turks...and unless there is an event or so encouraging the player to go crusading, he likely won't know to use him either.
Fine for me. I can understand this naval leader will be useful only for naval battles against England if any.

@Toio: about the proposed Flemish Arts event, there is a problem with dates overlapping BUR_137000 "Burgundian Capital". Result could be strange if Flemish Arts happens when action_b was chosen in Burgundian Capital event first.

If Flemish Arts happens before as it should, action_b in Burgundian Capital event becomes weird.


Ok for the added conditions in Order of the Golden Fleece event.

Btw, the name of the province on the map is Flandern, not Flanders. Is it a mistake?
 
Last edited:

Toio

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@Toio: about the proposed Flemish Arts event, there is a problem with dates overlapping BUR_137000 "Burgundian Capital". Result could be strange if Flemish Arts happens when action_b was chosen in Burgundian Capital event first.

If Flemish Arts happens before as it should, action_b in Burgundian Capital event becomes weird.

i can amend deathdate to
deathdate = { day = 31 month = december year = 1429 }





Btw, the name of the province on the map is Flandern, not Flanders. Is it a mistake?[/QUOTE]

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flandern

flandern is correct
 

unmerged(40707)

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i can amend deathdate to
deathdate = { day = 31 month = december year = 1429 }
It won't solve the Burgundian Capital action_b action name and effects problem. I know you think it should be removed and your proposed event doesn't have an action_b.

We have to make a decision if players can have the choice to move the capital or not. AI is another story and it could be solved with a missing ai_chance option (0% if some actions should be only for players to 100%) for actions.

flandern is correct
In this case, please stop using Flanders for the name of the province as comment. I always have to change it. ;)
 

Toio

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It won't solve the Burgundian Capital action_b action name and effects problem. I know you think it should be removed and your proposed event doesn't have an action_b.

my issues are historical, like
- why isnt dutch culture given to BUR from start of GC, they held flandern from the 13th century.
- how can we truly reflect the BUR capital when they had some many ( found another starting with H....) , i can understand we cannot use artois for lille.


We have to make a decision if players can have the choice to move the capital or not. AI is another story and it could be solved with a missing ai_chance option (0% if some actions should be only for players to 100%) for actions.

what we can have is an action B for my new event
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME137083B" #Remain in Dijon
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 100 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -50 }
command = { type = add_countryculture which = dutch }

but give BUR dutch culture, i mean they will get at a minimum, regardless of capital moves, flandern, artois, zeeland, holland ..........all dutch culture lands. Should BUR miss out ?...I mean they will only have 2 french provinces and 4 to 7 dutch ones

In this case, please stop using Flanders for the name of the province as comment. I always have to change it. ;)

trying..old habit
 

Toio

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one thing that bother me is why would any human ( let alone the AI) want to keep the BUR capital in Dijon and NOT gain dutch culture.
This means a loss of 30% income and manpower of 75% of owned provinces
 

ConjurerDragon

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one thing that bother me is why would any human ( let alone the AI) want to keep the BUR capital in Dijon and NOT gain dutch culture.
This means a loss of 30% income and manpower of 75% of owned provinces

As far as I understand it the intention was to have a choice here.

Either move the capital to the Netherlands and gain Dutch culture OR

be able to get the Crown of France event and gain cores on all of France.

So a player who wants to conquer France while playing Burgundy would chose the latter.
 

Toio

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As far as I understand it the intention was to have a choice here.

Either move the capital to the Netherlands and gain Dutch culture OR

be able to get the Crown of France event and gain cores on all of France.

So a player who wants to conquer France while playing Burgundy would chose the latter.

But , my moving to the netherlands you retain french culture and so you can still conquer france
and if a player wanted the french crown why not start as DAU ?? why start as BUR

seems like an event for no purpose remaining in Dijon

Maybe the french culture should be removed if you move Capital to the low countries...........i don't know..........all strange the way its done
 

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Stop Talking

forcing a player to move their capitol would be forcing a person into doing something historically accurate where they should have a choice. Moving the capitol makes it easier for France to take Burgundy's french provinces and force Burgundy into becoming worthless. If you win the 100 year war (which is fairly easy on any difficulty as Burgundy then you will gain just as many French provinces as Dutch ones and n=moving the capitol means you will lose direct access to provinces that can build bigger armies.
 

Toio

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forcing a player to move their capitol would be forcing a person into doing something historically accurate where they should have a choice. Moving the capitol makes it easier for France to take Burgundy's french provinces and force Burgundy into becoming worthless. If you win the 100 year war (which is fairly easy on any difficulty as Burgundy then you will gain just as many French provinces as Dutch ones and n=moving the capitol means you will lose direct access to provinces that can build bigger armies.

If you do not move, you do not get dutch culture, so you are left with french culture only, and since "new" FRA can be already created by either 1422 or 1430, you cannot as BUR gain the french crown by staying in Dijon. So in conclusion , a human will realise this and take the Brussels option, while the AI "might" stay in dijon and get eaten up way before the 1450s
 

unmerged(40707)

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As ConjurerDragon said, staying in Dijon is the option to become France... if France doesn't exists, of course. I admit this is a bad option for AI if France is on the map and polical borders are mostly historical.

Maybe we could enhance this part instead of forcing the choice in a single event and have a twin event without choice if the political situation is mostly historical. A Burgundian player will have to be sure the event he wants is the one that will be proposed according to some conditions in the triggers and/or not slept by things that could have happened before.

As a conclusion, Burgundy will have the choice only if situation is under the control of Burgundian will (i.e. a player) and AI will avoid the possibility of a "desastrous" choice.

Any thought?
 
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Toio

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As ConjurerDragon said, staying in Dijon is the option to become France... if France doesn't exists, of course. I admit this is a bad option for AI if France is on the map and polical borders are mostly historical.

Maybe we could enhance this part instead of forcing the choice in a single event and have a twin event without choice if the political situation is mostly historical. A Burgundian player will have to be sure the event he wants is the one that will be proposed according to some conditions in the triggers and/or not slept by things that could have happened before.

As a conclusion, Burgundy will have the choice only if situation is under the control of Burgundian will (i.e. a player) and AI will avoid the possibility of a "desastrous" choice.

Any thought?

i agree, but my post 1127 in which BUR capital was in bruges (flandern) by 1425 was historical, adding an action B or whatever is fine with me.

other question I had was.............should BUR get dutch culture prior to 1419 regardless..........but then this would take the fun from a player to make a choice. as he would always start with BUR and try to become FRA

I just do not know what commands should be for an action B for new event 137083
 

Toio

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in many games LUX own holland in 1427 and so the event below does not fire,
thoughts on proposed changes

#(1427) Consequence of the death of Jan IV
event = {
id = 182003
trigger = {
exists = BUR
OR = {
owned = { province = 339 data = -1 } #Holland
owned = { province = 340 data = -1 } #Zeeland
}
}
random = no
country = HAU
name = "EVENTNAME182003" #Consequence of the death of Jan IV
desc = "EVENTHIST182003"
#-#Jan IV of Brabant had almost always been been a sickly man, so his premature death in April 1427 came as no surprise, and had been anticipated in particular by his Burgundian cousin. While his brother Filips succeeded him in Brabant, Burgundy took full control of Hainault, Holland and Zeeland. Being in no position to openly oppose the move, and also lacking the claim his brother had due to his marriage with Jacqueline, heiress of Holland, Hainault and Zeeland, Filips had to accept the fact.

date = { day = 17 month = april year = 1427 }
offset = 10
deathdate = { day = 29 month = april year = 1427 [/COLOR]1430 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME182003A" #Renounce the Dutch Wittelsbach possessions
command = { type = secedeprovince which = BUR value = 339 } #Holland
command = { type = secedeprovince which = BUR value = 340 } #Zeeland
command = { type = removecore which = 339 } #Holland
command = { type = removecore which = 340 } #Zeeland
command = { type = trigger which = 137024 } #BUR: The Dutch Wittelsbach possessions
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME182003B" #Defy Burgundy
command = { type = breakvassal which = BUR }
command = { type = war which = BUR }
command = { type = stability value = -2 }
command = { type = relation which = BUR value = -300 }
command = { type = trigger which = 137025 } #BUR: The Dutch Wittelsbach possessions
}
}

...........................................

#(1425) Death of Jan the Merciless -I-
event = {
id = 213001
trigger = {
OR = {
owned = { province = 339 data = -1 } #Holland
owned = { province = 379 data = -1 } #Artois
}
exists = BUR
}
random = no
country = LUX
name = "EVENTNAME213001" #Death of Jan the Merciless
desc = "EVENTHIST213001"
#-#Jan of Bavaria, husband of Elisabeth of Görlitz and as such pawnee of Luxemburg, died, probably of poison, on January 6th 1425. While his wife retained her pawn Luxemburg, the Duchy of Bavaria-Straubing was seized by Emperor Sigismund as a vacant Imperial fief and his part of the Dutch Wittelsbach inheritance passed to Burgundy, on the base of a treaty that had just been concluded, which is why the Duke of Burgundy was immediately suspected of having ordered the assassination of Jan.

date = { day = 5 month = january year = 1425 }
offset = 10
deathdate = { day = 29 month = april year = 1427 }


action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME213001A" #Honour the agreement with Burgundy
command = { type = secedeprovince which = BUR value = 339 } #just in case HAU doesn't exist #Holland
command = { type = secedeprovince which = HAU value = 339 } #Holland
command = { type = secedeprovince which = BUR value = 379 } #Artois
command = { type = secedeprovince which = HUN value = 348 } #Ansbach
command = { type = independence which = FRI }
command = { type = breakvassal which = FRI }
command = { type = removecore which = 339 } #Holland
command = { type = removecore which = 379 } #Artois
command = { type = removecore which = 348 } #Ansbach
command = { type = remove_countryculture which = dutch }
command = { type = trigger which = 137026 } #BUR: The Dutch Wittelsbach possessions
command = { type = sleepevent which = 213002 } #LUX: Death of Jan the Merciless -II-
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME213001B" #Don't turn over anything to the murderers of my husband!
command = { type = secedeprovince which = HUN value = 348 } #Ansbach
command = { type = removecore which = 348 } #Ansbach
command = { type = war which = BUR }
command = { type = stability value = -3 }
command = { type = remove_countryculture which = dutch }
command = { type = trigger which = 137027 } #BUR: The Dutch Wittelsbach possessions
command = { type = sleepevent which = 213002 } #LUX: Death of Jan the Merciless -II-
}
}
#(1425) Death of Jan the Merciless -II-
event = {
id = 213002
trigger = {
OR = {
NOT = {
owned = { province = 339 data = -1 } #Holland
owned = { province = 379 data = -1 } #Artois
}
NOT = {
exists = BUR
}
}
}
random = no
country = LUX
name = "EVENTNAME213001" #Death of Jan the Merciless
desc = "EVENTHIST213002"
#-#Jan of Bavaria, husband of Elisabeth of Görlitz and as such pawnee of Luxemburg, died, probably of poison, on January 6th 1425. While his wife retained her pawn Luxemburg, the Duchy of Bavaria-Straubing was seized by Emperor Sigismund as a vacant Imperial fief.

date = { day = 5 month = january year = 1425 }
offset = 10
deathdate = { day = 29 month = april year = 1427 }


action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME213002A" #My dear husband
command = { type = secedeprovince which = HAU value = 339 } #Holland
command = { type = secedeprovince which = HAU value = 379 } #Artois
command = { type = secedeprovince which = HUN value = 348 } #Ansbach
command = { type = removecore which = 339 } #Holland
command = { type = removecore which = 379 } #Artois
command = { type = removecore which = 348 } #Ansbach
command = { type = remove_countryculture which = dutch }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 213001 } #LUX: Death of Jan the Merciless -I-
}
}
 

Toio

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in many games LUX own holland in 1427 and so the event below does not fire,
thoughts on proposed changes

#(1427) Consequence of the death of Jan IV
event = {
id = 182003
trigger = {
exists = BUR
OR = {
owned = { province = 339 data = -1 } #Holland
owned = { province = 340 data = -1 } #Zeeland
}
}
random = no
country = HAU
name = "EVENTNAME182003" #Consequence of the death of Jan IV
desc = "EVENTHIST182003"
#-#Jan IV of Brabant had almost always been been a sickly man, so his premature death in April 1427 came as no surprise, and had been anticipated in particular by his Burgundian cousin. While his brother Filips succeeded him in Brabant, Burgundy took full control of Hainault, Holland and Zeeland. Being in no position to openly oppose the move, and also lacking the claim his brother had due to his marriage with Jacqueline, heiress of Holland, Hainault and Zeeland, Filips had to accept the fact.

date = { day = 17 month = april year = 1427 }
offset = 10
deathdate = { day = 29 month = april year = 1427 1430 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME182003A" #Renounce the Dutch Wittelsbach possessions
command = { type = secedeprovince which = BUR value = 339 } #Holland
command = { type = secedeprovince which = BUR value = 340 } #Zeeland
command = { type = removecore which = 339 } #Holland
command = { type = removecore which = 340 } #Zeeland
command = { type = trigger which = 137024 } #BUR: The Dutch Wittelsbach possessions
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME182003B" #Defy Burgundy
command = { type = breakvassal which = BUR }
command = { type = war which = BUR }
command = { type = stability value = -2 }
command = { type = relation which = BUR value = -300 }
command = { type = trigger which = 137025 } #BUR: The Dutch Wittelsbach possessions
}
}

...........................................

#(1425) Death of Jan the Merciless -I-
event = {
id = 213001
trigger = {
OR = {
owned = { province = 339 data = -1 } #Holland
owned = { province = 379 data = -1 } #Artois
}
exists = BUR
}
random = no
country = LUX
name = "EVENTNAME213001" #Death of Jan the Merciless
desc = "EVENTHIST213001"
#-#Jan of Bavaria, husband of Elisabeth of Görlitz and as such pawnee of Luxemburg, died, probably of poison, on January 6th 1425. While his wife retained her pawn Luxemburg, the Duchy of Bavaria-Straubing was seized by Emperor Sigismund as a vacant Imperial fief and his part of the Dutch Wittelsbach inheritance passed to Burgundy, on the base of a treaty that had just been concluded, which is why the Duke of Burgundy was immediately suspected of having ordered the assassination of Jan.

date = { day = 5 month = january year = 1425 }
offset = 10
deathdate = { day = 29 month = april year = 1427 }


action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME213001A" #Honour the agreement with Burgundy
command = { type = secedeprovince which = BUR value = 339 } #just in case HAU doesn't exist #Holland
command = { type = secedeprovince which = HAU value = 339 } #Holland
command = { type = secedeprovince which = BUR value = 379 } #Artois
command = { type = secedeprovince which = HUN value = 348 } #Ansbach
command = { type = independence which = FRI }
command = { type = breakvassal which = FRI }
command = { type = removecore which = 339 } #Holland
command = { type = removecore which = 379 } #Artois
command = { type = removecore which = 348 } #Ansbach
command = { type = remove_countryculture which = dutch }
command = { type = trigger which = 137026 } #BUR: The Dutch Wittelsbach possessions
command = { type = sleepevent which = 213002 } #LUX: Death of Jan the Merciless -II-
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME213001B" #Don't turn over anything to the murderers of my husband!
command = { type = secedeprovince which = HUN value = 348 } #Ansbach
command = { type = removecore which = 348 } #Ansbach
command = { type = war which = BUR }
command = { type = stability value = -3 }
command = { type = remove_countryculture which = dutch }
command = { type = trigger which = 137027 } #BUR: The Dutch Wittelsbach possessions
command = { type = sleepevent which = 213002 } #LUX: Death of Jan the Merciless -II-
}
}
#(1425) Death of Jan the Merciless -II-
event = {
id = 213002
trigger = {
OR = {
NOT = {
owned = { province = 339 data = -1 } #Holland
owned = { province = 379 data = -1 } #Artois
}
NOT = {
exists = BUR
}
}
}
random = no
country = LUX
name = "EVENTNAME213001" #Death of Jan the Merciless
desc = "EVENTHIST213002"
#-#Jan of Bavaria, husband of Elisabeth of Görlitz and as such pawnee of Luxemburg, died, probably of poison, on January 6th 1425. While his wife retained her pawn Luxemburg, the Duchy of Bavaria-Straubing was seized by Emperor Sigismund as a vacant Imperial fief.

date = { day = 5 month = january year = 1425 }
offset = 10
deathdate = { day = 29 month = april year = 1427 }


action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME213002A" #My dear husband
command = { type = secedeprovince which = HAU value = 339 } #Holland
command = { type = secedeprovince which = HAU value = 379 } #Artois
command = { type = secedeprovince which = HUN value = 348 } #Ansbach
command = { type = removecore which = 339 } #Holland
command = { type = removecore which = 379 } #Artois
command = { type = removecore which = 348 } #Ansbach
command = { type = remove_countryculture which = dutch }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 213001 } #LUX: Death of Jan the Merciless -I-
}
}