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Yes, a human should be able to play Burgundy and turn into Spain the same as it should be able to play Aragon and become Spain. It would certainly make for a most interesting game. Hundred year war followed by Habsburg fights and conquest of the New World.Bordic said:
The question of who inherited whom is not difficult. Castile allowed a degree of control from the King that neither Aragon nor Burgundy allowed. This soon resulted on the bulk of the royal funds being raised from Castile. As money is power, Castile allowed Carlos to buy the imperial crown. He then was attracted to Castile as a moth comes to light. Despite him being very badly received in Castile (Comuneros), he soon became a Castilian king, and raised a Castilian dinasty (Felipe was only II in Castile, neither in Aragon, nor in Burgundy). There were strong talks of making his brother Fernando king of Castile and Aragon. He prevented that by sending him to Austria, and installing himself in Spain. Had he remained in Brussels he would have been unable to retain Spain. At that point Spain was ten times stronger militarily than what was left of Burgundy.
My view is that if AI, Burgundy should be inherited by Spain. If player he gets to choose. A) become Spain. B) Remain Burgundy. In this last case, as it completely abandons history, any events for that should be fantasy. It should also not get any Spanish culture then.
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OK, that is my attempt at modifying ahistorical BUR_137004 in order to go onto the historical path again...Fodoron said:
Current event modified as follows (yellow for additions modifications)
Code:
[COLOR=Yellow]#Spain unified with Burgundy [/COLOR]
event = {
id = 137004 [COLOR=Yellow]#triggered by SPA_285101 A[/COLOR]
random = no
country = BUR
name = "EVENTNAME137004" #Spain unified with Burgundy
desc = "EVENTHIST137004"
#-#
action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME137004A" #Charles is master of the world
command = { type = addcore which = 427 } #Gerona
command = { type = addcore which = 429 } #Catalonia
command = { type = addcore which = 430 } #Aragon
command = { type = addcore which = 431 } #Cantabria
command = { type = addcore which = 432 } #Asturias
command = { type = addcore which = 433 } #Galicia
command = { type = addcore which = 435 } #Leon
command = { type = addcore which = 436 } #Castilla
command = { type = addcore which = 437 } #Valencia
command = { type = addcore which = 438 } #Murcia
command = { type = addcore which = 439 } #Toledo
command = { type = addcore which = 440 } #Estramadura
command = { type = addcore which = 443 } #Andalusia
command = { type = addcore which = 444 } #Granada
command = { type = addcore which = 445 } #Gibraltar
command = { type = addcore which = 817 } #The Canary Islands
command = { type = addcore which = 821 } #The Baleares
[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = addcore which = 393 } #Napoli
command = { type = addcore which = 394 } #Apulia
command = { type = addcore which = 395 } #Messina
command = { type = addcore which = 396 } #Sicily
command = { type = addcore which = 397 } #Sardinia
command = { type = addcore which = 426 } #Roussillon
command = { type = addcore which = 428 } #Navarra[/COLOR]
command = { type = inherit which = SPA }
}
}modified text here:
EVENTHIST137004;The Cortes of Spain have humbly accepted Charles' decision to rule his globe-spanning empire under the Burgundian rule.;;;;;;;;;;
And a new event about the choice to become Spain or to remain Burgundy with a strong opposition in the Iberian peninsula:
Code:
#Charles' residence and insignia
#by Bordic
event = {
id = [COLOR=Lime]137016[/COLOR]
trigger = {
event = 137004 #BUR: Spain unified with Burgundy
owned = { province = 439 data = -1 } #Toledo
control = { province = 439 data = -1 } #Toledo
NOT = { exists = SPA }
ai = no
}
random = no
country = BUR
name = "EVENTNAME[COLOR=Lime]137016[/COLOR]" #Charles' residence and insignia
desc = "EVENTHIST[COLOR=Lime]137016[/COLOR]"
#-#
date = { day = 18 month = September year = 1517 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 29 month = December year = 1519 }
action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME[COLOR=Lime]137016[/COLOR]A" #Reside in Spain under Spanish insignia
command = { type = population which = 378 value = -500 } #Brabant
command = { type = population which = 409 value = -500 } #Bourgogne
command = { type = population which = 439 value = 1000 } #Toledo
command = { type = capital which = 439 } #Toledo
command = { type = cash value = -50 }
command = { type = remove_countryculture which = french }
command = { type = add_countryculture which = iberian } # castilian
command = { type = add_countryculture which = amazonian } #catalan
command = { type = add_countryculture which = italian }
[COLOR=Lime]command = { type = add_countryculture which = basque }[/COLOR]
command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = -2 }
command = { type = domestic which = MERCANTILISM value = 2 }
command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = -5 }
command = { type = domestic which = LAND value = -2 }
command = { type = country which = SPA }
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME[COLOR=Lime]137016[/COLOR]B" #Reside in Burgundy under Burgundian insignia
[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = setflag which = Spain_inherited } #needed as trigger for all fantasy BUR events[/COLOR]
command = { type = population which = 378 value = 1000 } #Brabant
command = { type = population which = 409 value = 1000 } #Bourgogne
command = { type = population which = 439 value = -3000 } #Toledo
command = { type = provincetax which = 439 value = -1 } #Toledo
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 426 value = 5 } #Roussillon
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 427 value = 5 } #Gerona
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 429 value = 5 } #Catalonia
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 430 value = 5 } #Aragon
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 431 value = 5 } #Cantabria
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 432 value = 5 } #Asturias
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 433 value = 5 } #Galicia
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 435 value = 5 } #Leon
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 436 value = 5 } #Castilla
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 437 value = 5 } #Valencia
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 438 value = 5 } #Murcia
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 439 value = 5 } #Toledo
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 440 value = 5 } #Estramadura
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 443 value = 5 } #Andalusia
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 444 value = 5 } #Granada
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 445 value = 5 } #Gibraltar
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 817 value = 5 } #The Canary Islands
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 821 value = 5 } #Baleares
command = { type = ADM which = -2 value = 60 }
command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = -1 }
}
}EVENTNAME137016;Charles' residence and insignia;;;;;;;;;;
EVENTHIST137016;Now that also The Cortes of Spain have recognized our right to rule over Spain and Italy, the unification of all those different territories raises the question about the insignia under which we should rule and most of all about where the Royal residence of the new realm should be. The heart of the Iberian peninsula seems to be a good point where to receive in time despatches from the farthest corners of our realms, but also our rich ducal cities in Bourgogne or in the Low Countries could meet our needs and would also permit a better control over the neighbouring countries...;;;;;;;;;;
ACTIONNAME137016A;Reside in Spain under Spanish insignia;;;;;;;;;;
ACTIONNAME137016B;Reside in Burgundy under Burgundian insignia;;;;;;;;;;
In order to let a human player still take part in the Italian Wars against Spain we need to modify the triggers in FRA_170048 FRA_170049 and FRA_12037,
changing the line
Code:
event = 285100 #SPA: The empire where the sun never sets
Code:
OR = {
AND = { event = [COLOR=Lime]137016 [/COLOR] #BUR: Charles' residence and insignia
exists = SPA
}
event = 285100 #SPA: The empire where the sun never sets
}About the capital city I have confirmed the agceep Spanish one...
EDIT: changed the triggers needed for the IW.
EDIT2: amended action a, removed revolts and provincetax reduction, added DP changes.
EDIT3: amended action b, added flag Spain_inherited for fantasy BUR events anyone would like to code...
EDIT4 (27 June): added "basque" culture in BUR_137016 (cnaged id #) modification in lime green
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This is the historic choice. Do we know of any rebellion in the low countries because of it? I was under the impression that most people there were fine with the choice. Also the administrative choice was the right one. The problems with the Low Countries started for religious problems.Bordic said:OK, that is my attempt at modifying ahistorical BUR_137004 in order to go onto the historical path again...
Current event modified as follows (yellow for additions modifications)
Code:action_a = { name = "ACTIONNAME137015A" #Reside in Spain under Spanish insignia command = { type = revolt which = 378 } #Brabant command = { type = revolt which = 380 } #Flanders command = { type = revolt which = 409 } #Bourgogne command = { type = population which = 378 value = -1000 } #Brabant command = { type = population which = 409 value = -1000 } #Bourgogne command = { type = population which = 439 value = 1000 } #Toledo command = { type = provincetax which = 378 value = -1 } #Brabant command = { type = provincetax which = 378 value = -1 } #Bourgogne command = { type = provincetax which = 439 value = 1 } #Toledo command = { type = capital which = 439 } #Toledo command = { type = cash value = -50 } command = { type = remove_countryculture which = french } command = { type = add_countryculture which = iberian } # castilian command = { type = add_countryculture which = amazonian } #catalan command = { type = add_countryculture which = italian } command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = -2 } command = { type = ADM which = -2 value = 36 } command = { type = country which = SPA } }
About the capital city I have confirmed the agceep Spanish one...
Ok, so your advice is to remove those lines, isn't it? But what about the lessened province tax, is it needed at this point? Should we also add a DP move to be more NAVAL too? Unfortunately, I don't know about the other DP settings Burgundy could have and Spain should have in 1517-1519...Fodoron said:
Bordic said:OK, that is my attempt at modifying ahistorical BUR_137004 in order to go onto the historical path again...
Current event modified as follows (yellow for additions modifications)
Code:[COLOR=Yellow]#Spain unified with Burgundy [/COLOR] event = { id = 137004 [COLOR=Yellow]#triggered by SPA_285101 A[/COLOR] random = no country = BUR name = "EVENTNAME137004" #Spain unified with Burgundy desc = "EVENTHIST137004" #-# action_a = { name = "ACTIONNAME137004A" #Charles is master of the world command = { type = addcore which = 427 } #Gerona command = { type = addcore which = 429 } #Catalonia command = { type = addcore which = 430 } #Aragon command = { type = addcore which = 431 } #Cantabria command = { type = addcore which = 432 } #Asturias command = { type = addcore which = 433 } #Galicia command = { type = addcore which = 435 } #Leon command = { type = addcore which = 436 } #Castilla command = { type = addcore which = 437 } #Valencia command = { type = addcore which = 438 } #Murcia command = { type = addcore which = 439 } #Toledo command = { type = addcore which = 440 } #Estramadura command = { type = addcore which = 443 } #Andalusia command = { type = addcore which = 444 } #Granada command = { type = addcore which = 445 } #Gibraltar command = { type = addcore which = 817 } #The Canary Islands command = { type = addcore which = 821 } #The Baleares [COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = addcore which = 393 } #Napoli command = { type = addcore which = 394 } #Apulia command = { type = addcore which = 395 } #Messina command = { type = addcore which = 396 } #Sicily command = { type = addcore which = 397 } #Sardinia command = { type = addcore which = 426 } #Roussillon command = { type = addcore which = 428 } #Navarra[/COLOR] command = { type = inherit which = SPA } } }
modified text here:
EVENTHIST137004;The Cortes of Spain have humbly accepted Charles' decision to rule his globe-spanning empire under the Burgundian insignia.;;;;;;;;;;
And a new event about the choice to become Spain or to remain Burgundy with a strong opposition in the Iberian peninsula:
Code:#Charles' residence and insignia #by Bordic event = { id = 137015 trigger = { event = 137004 #BUR: Spain unified with Burgundy owned = { province = 439 data = -1 } #Toledo control = { province = 439 data = -1 } #Toledo NOT = { exists = SPA } ai = no } random = no country = BUR name = "EVENTNAME137015" #Charles' residence and insignia desc = "EVENTHIST137015" #-# date = { day = 18 month = September year = 1517 } offset = 30 deathdate = { day = 29 month = December year = 1519 } action_a = { name = "ACTIONNAME137015A" #Reside in Spain under Spanish insignia command = { type = revolt which = 378 } #Brabant command = { type = revolt which = 380 } #Flanders command = { type = revolt which = 409 } #Bourgogne command = { type = population which = 378 value = -1000 } #Brabant command = { type = population which = 409 value = -1000 } #Bourgogne command = { type = population which = 439 value = 1000 } #Toledo command = { type = provincetax which = 378 value = -1 } #Brabant command = { type = provincetax which = 378 value = -1 } #Bourgogne command = { type = provincetax which = 439 value = 1 } #Toledo command = { type = capital which = 439 } #Toledo command = { type = cash value = -50 } command = { type = remove_countryculture which = french } command = { type = add_countryculture which = iberian } # castilian command = { type = add_countryculture which = amazonian } #catalan command = { type = add_countryculture which = italian } command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = -2 } command = { type = ADM which = -2 value = 36 } command = { type = country which = SPA } } action_b = { name = "ACTIONNAME137015B" #Reside in Burgundy under Burgundian insignia command = { type = population which = 378 value = 1000 } #Brabant command = { type = population which = 409 value = 1000 } #Bourgogne command = { type = population which = 439 value = -3000 } #Toledo command = { type = provincetax which = 439 value = -1 } #Toledo command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 426 value = 5 } #Roussillon command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 427 value = 5 } #Gerona command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 429 value = 5 } #Catalonia command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 430 value = 5 } #Aragon command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 431 value = 5 } #Cantabria command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 432 value = 5 } #Asturias command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 433 value = 5 } #Galicia command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 435 value = 5 } #Leon command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 436 value = 5 } #Castilla command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 437 value = 5 } #Valencia command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 438 value = 5 } #Murcia command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 439 value = 5 } #Toledo command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 440 value = 5 } #Estramadura command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 443 value = 5 } #Andalusia command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 444 value = 5 } #Granada command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 445 value = 5 } #Gibraltar command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 817 value = 5 } #The Canary Islands command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 821 value = 5 } #Baleares command = { type = ADM which = -2 value = 60 } command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = -1 } } }
EVENTNAME137015;Charles' residence and insignia;;;;;;;;;;
EVENTHIST137015;Now that also The Cortes of Spain have recognized our right to rule over Spain and Italy, the unification of all those different territories raises the question about the insignia under which we should rule and most of all about where the Royal residence of the new realm should be. The heart of the Iberian peninsula seems to be a good point where to receive in time despatches from the farthest corners of our realms, but also our rich ducal cities in Bourgogne or in the Low Countries could meet our needs and would also permit a better control over the neighbouring countries...;;;;;;;;;;
ACTIONNAME137015A;Reside in Spain under Spanish insignia;;;;;;;;;;
ACTIONNAME137015B;Reside in Burgundy under Burgundian insignia;;;;;;;;;;
In order to let a human player still take part in the Italian Wars against Spain we need to modify the triggers in FRA_170048 FRA_170049 and FRA_12037,
changing the line
with these linesCode:event = 285100 #SPA: The empire where the sun never sets
Code:OR = { AND = { event = 137004 #BUR: Spain unified with Burgundy exists = SPA } event = 285100 #SPA: The empire where the sun never sets }
About the capital city I have confirmed the agceep Spanish one...
Great, now lets look upon a Burgundy that stays burgundy and inherits spain (and maybe already has french crown)
capitol: paris (checking if they own it)
if not, Bourgogne (so they move capitol from low lands to a closer position to Spain, but not into it)
If Burgundy has now all of Spain, Burgundy itself, France, and the lowlands, then it should become the Burgundian Empire (means stability incrase after some time, bonuses, and a new imperial/kings flag for Burgundy, I would prefer to have the one I suggested before so it adds flavor for Burgundian player, and does not take place of a TAG couse it is just about a simply order 'change CoA/flag)
This event should check if: Spain, aragon, France, Brabant, or Netherlands exist,
and also if: Toledo, Barcelona, bourgogne, brabant, paris are owned by Burgundy before event fires.
if Burgundy decides to stay burgundy then no rebellions in lowlands, but maybe in spain or in italian provincesBordic said:
It is effectively too much fantasy alternative history, a sort of Renaissance European Community (REC instead of EECjorian said:
). It is more a World Conquest Game!We would need to check the results of the HYW too...
I would prefer that a human playing Burgundy would have two choices only, apart from the results of HYW or the crowning as King of Lotharingia, and both choices depending on the choice made in BUR_3597 (the marriage of Mary of Burgundy):
either marrying Maximilian (choice A) and choose to become Spain or stay as ahistorical Burgundy or marrying Johann of Nassau_Dillenberg (choice C) and become Netherlands after 1559.
Marrying the Dauphin (Choice B) is an end game option that for a human means playing an ahistorical Burgundy with France claiming almost all your cores...
It should become quite mercantilistic and narrowminded I would suggest:Bordic said:
MERC +2
INNO -5
LAND -2
That should get a few more colonists.
Bordic said:It is effectively too much fantasy alternative history, a sort of Renaissance European Community (REC instead of EEC
We would need to check the results of the HYW too...
I would prefer that a human playing Burgundy would have two choices only, apart from the results of HYW or the crowning as King of Lotharingia, and both choices depending on the choice made in BUR_3597 (the marriage of Mary of Burgundy):
either marrying Maximilian (choice A) and choose to become Spain or stay as ahistorical Burgundy or marrying Johann of Nassau_Dillenberg (choice C) and become Netherlands after 1559.
Marrying the Dauphin (Choice B) is an end game option that for a human means playing an ahistorical Burgundy with France claiming almost all your cores...
Well, but never forget the many, MANY players who like to get an empire with burgundy.
I don't suggest massive changes only the change of a CoA/flag what would have changed more than possibly if Burgundy would own so many provinces.
It is already possible to get lowlands, france and spain as burgundy, what i really suggest is a simple, 'no work at all' extra to get new CoA/flag for an empire huge like that
Bordic said:It is effectively too much fantasy alternative history, a sort of Renaissance European Community (REC instead of EEC
True. But would it not be cool?
a sort of The Most Holy Empire of the West (+ spanish colonies
)
OK, amended event ! But what about moving the capital to Toledo? Is that correct or we need to choose another one except Castilla 436 (the changing capital event will do it!)?Fodoron said:
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jorian said:Well, but never forget the many, MANY players who like to get an empire with burgundy.
I don't suggest massive changes only the change of a CoA/flag what would have changed more than possibly if Burgundy would own so many provinces.
It is already possible to get lowlands, france and spain as burgundy, what i really suggest is a simple, 'no work at all' extra to get new CoA/flag for an empire huge like that
th3freakie said:True. But would it not be cool?
a sort of The Most Holy Empire of the West (+ spanish colonies
It is very suggestive but remember that as Burgundy you would face the Dutch revolts and a different culture in Southern Europe and more...
you will break the agceep standards for fantasy events !
In facts my suggested action B in BUR_137015 has to be probably omitted!
BUT
If you would just change the flag, you can add this line to action B:
Code:
command = { type = flagname which = Ueberbur }and include in gfx/map/flag (shield and smallshield) folders:
flag_burUeberbur.bmp
shield_burUeberbur.bmp
smallshield_burUeberbur.bmp
the new CoA.
EDIT: I am always convinced that a true BUR player would like to play either a reborn France with Dutch revolts, an historical reborn Spain a Valois-Nassau ruled BUR forming Netherlands.
For the third option I would like to have some support about the events to write if BUR_3597 action C is chosen and Mary marries the Nassauer and the future Willem of Orange will be named with the French Guillaume d'Orange!
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well, yes this is a begin, the new CoA/flag will be liked by the burgundy players, and those revolts should quit after 50 or 100 years maximum.Bordic said:
If a player already decided to walk that path, and also stays with those revolts for such a long time, then they should get their 'reward': no rebellions
Well, I always liked to stay Burgundy, and if you think about it this is the mostly 'historical' possibility for them: they always tried to become free from France, and if Burgundy still gains the french crown, they would never name themself french. (atleast not couse of nationality, thats out of EU2 timeframe)Bordic said:EDIT: I am always convinced that a true BUR player would like to play either a reborn France with Dutch revolts, an historical reborn Spain a Valois-Nassau ruled BUR forming Netherlands.
For the third option I would like to have some support about the events to write if BUR_3597 action C is chosen and Mary marries the Nassauer and the future Willem of Orange will be named with the French Guillaume d'Orange!
They would create a new Kingdom of their own, what has its 'HQ' in their old enemies heartland: Paris, and would never declare themself 'France'.
Couse they would have their 'powerbase' in france mostly, they would adopt the fleurs, but not the fully same COA/flag.
The only thing why I picked purple as their alternative main color, is becouse they have also purple as main nation-s color on the map.
And the fleurs on the CoA-s are half black
They really, simply need a new CoA/flag for that possibility.
Also, AI would never make 'option B' or whatever, so it is only a bonus for a sucessfull burgundian real human player.
it is, if a good player plays BurgundyYodaMaster said:Correct but Bordeaux isn't exactly in Burgundy, is it?
jorian said:it is, if a good player plays Burgundy
Geographically speaking, you're still wrong.