AGCEEP British Isles

[Garbon]

This thread is to discuss England, Scotland, Ireland, and perhaps one day Great Britain.

Large sequences (e.g. HYW, War of Roses, English Civil War) should be discussed in their own threads as the past has shown those to get messy.

 

[Kiesenberg]

EDIT:
My original post requested an event to make Cornwall Anglosaxon, however this is already in the mod.
Its entry in the AGCEEP website needs updating though as that doesn't say that it changes Cornwalls culture.

 

[Emperor Walter]

Mary Stewart

Are there any plans to add some regents for Mary of Scotland? Because it is quite odd when she reigns at the age of a week old !

 

[unmerged(181850)]

Hey, is there a historical/game balance reason there's no event for England to ever get celtic as a state culture?

It just seems peculiar to me that there are events to change all the celtic provinces to anglosaxon or french, but no way to get celtic as an accepted culture.

 

[unmerged(181153)]

Because it has been and will always continue to be a waste of money...

Ask the poorest group of people in Wales (in the Valleys) if they want better public services or bilingual traffic signs (they get the latter even though nobody wants them). -30% income sounds sensible to me. ^^

 

[unmerged(9875)]

Regarding revolters : Is it wad that a catholic England, think it was during Charles I reign, get both royalist and puritan revolters ?

Seems to me that the logical thing would be Royalists if England is Ref/Prot and puritan if they are catholic.

 

[unmerged(49888)]

Regarding revolters : Is it wad that a catholic England, think it was during Charles I reign, get both royalist and puritan revolters ?

Seems to me that the logical thing would be Royalists if England is Ref/Prot and puritan if they are catholic.

There's no way to stop a revolter from possibly forming based on the parent nation's religion. You can though define the country's religion through revolt.txt, but this is not done often.

 

[Toio]

the event below is wrong and not historical

#(1536-1820) Welsh Act of Union
event = {
	id = 3876
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 243 data = -1 } #Wales
		OR = {
			religion = protestant
			religion = reformed
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME3876" #Welsh Act of Union
	desc = "EVENTHIST3876"
	#-#Wales had been conquered by England during the reign of Edward I, but was considered a separate country until Parliament passed the Welsh Act of Union in 1536. This act, combined with a further one in 1543, gave Wales representation in Parliament, made it subject to the same laws as England, and also made English the primary language of Wales. This hastened the anglicization of Wales, making it easier for the English to administer the province.

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1536 }
	offset = 360
	deathdate = { year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3876A" #Pass the Act
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 243 value = anglosaxon } #Wales
	}
}

What should be done is create a welsh culture ( which we can do with FTG) and allow England to have welsh culture with this event.

The first effort ( historically) to "destroy" the welsh language by England, came with an act in 1847 known as the welsh stick, this was only used in primary schools hoping that over time , welsh would be forgotten. This was found to have failed and was removed in 2009 when Wales via the EU was granted permission to also hold parliament in only the welsh language.

 

[unmerged(49888)]

Maybe we should expand this event with choices? One to maintain history, one to be more severe, and one to not pass the act. We should add an inheritance of WLS to choices A and B, as it is possible that some players will have a vassalised WLS rather than an owned Wales province.

 

[unmerged(49888)]

I propose the following minor change:

It makes sense that if ENG returns any Scottish provinces to SCO, that it would also grant indepedence to an annexed SCO (the AI in particular has annexed SCO by now).

#(1603-1625) The Union of the Crowns
#by Bordic - modified by mandead
event = {
	id = 164047
	trigger = {
		monarch = 046013 #James I
		exists = SCO
		NOT = {
			event = 276021 #SCO: The Union of the Crowns (ENG vassal to SCO)
			vassal = { country = SCO country = ENG }
			alliance = { country = SCO country = ENG }
			war = { country = SCO country = ENG }
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME164047" #The Union of the Crowns
	desc = "EVENTHIST164047"
	#-#Elizabeth I fell ill in February 1603, suffering from frailty and insomnia. After a period of distressing reflection, on 24 March she died. The 
will of Henry VIII declared that his daughter Elizabeth was to be succeeded by the descendants of his younger sister, Mary Tudor, Duchess of Suffolk, rather 
than by the Scottish descendants of his elder sister, Margaret Tudor. However, if the rules of male primogeniture were upheld and the successor James VI, 
King of Scots, would become the legitimate successor on the throne of England. There were other male alternative heirs but none of them pressed their claims. 

Still being in Scotland at that time, James VI was proclaimed King of England as James I a few hours after Elizabeth's death by a Council of Accession.

	date = { day = 24 month = march year = 1603 }
	offset = 90
	deathdate = { day = 27 month = march year = 1625 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME164047A" #United countries of a Great Britain
		command = { type = flagname which = "Union" }
		command = { type = vassal which = SCO }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SCO value = 236 } #Highlands
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SCO value = 237 } #Grampians
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SCO value = 238 } #Strathclyde
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SCO value = 239 } #Lothian
		[COLOR="yellow"]command = { type = independence which = SCO }[/COLOR]		
                                command = { type = revoltrisk which = 24 value = 2 }
		command = { type = relation which = SCO value = 200 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 164112 } #ENG: The plan for a united Britain
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 276021 } #SCO: The Union of the Crowns (ENG vassal to SCO)
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME164047B" #Rule them independently
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = relation which = SCO value = 300 }
		command = { type = dynastic which = SCO }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 276021 } #SCO: The Union of the Crowns (ENG vassal to SCO)
	}
}

 

[Toio]

I propose the following minor change:

It makes sense that if ENG returns any Scottish provinces to SCO, that it would also grant indepedence to an annexed SCO (the AI in particular has annexed SCO by now).

#(1603-1625) The Union of the Crowns
#by Bordic - modified by mandead
event = {
	id = 164047
	trigger = {
		monarch = 046013 #James I
		exists = SCO
		NOT = {
			event = 276021 #SCO: The Union of the Crowns (ENG vassal to SCO)
			vassal = { country = SCO country = ENG }
			alliance = { country = SCO country = ENG }
			war = { country = SCO country = ENG }
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME164047" #The Union of the Crowns
	desc = "EVENTHIST164047"
	#-#Elizabeth I fell ill in February 1603, suffering from frailty and insomnia. After a period of distressing reflection, on 24 March she died. The 
will of Henry VIII declared that his daughter Elizabeth was to be succeeded by the descendants of his younger sister, Mary Tudor, Duchess of Suffolk, rather 
than by the Scottish descendants of his elder sister, Margaret Tudor. However, if the rules of male primogeniture were upheld and the successor James VI, 
King of Scots, would become the legitimate successor on the throne of England. There were other male alternative heirs but none of them pressed their claims. 

Still being in Scotland at that time, James VI was proclaimed King of England as James I a few hours after Elizabeth's death by a Council of Accession.

	date = { day = 24 month = march year = 1603 }
	offset = 90
	deathdate = { day = 27 month = march year = 1625 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME164047A" #United countries of a Great Britain
		command = { type = flagname which = "Union" }
		command = { type = vassal which = SCO }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SCO value = 236 } #Highlands
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SCO value = 237 } #Grampians
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SCO value = 238 } #Strathclyde
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SCO value = 239 } #Lothian
		[COLOR="yellow"]command = { type = independence which = SCO }[/COLOR]		
                                command = { type = revoltrisk which = 24 value = 2 }
		command = { type = relation which = SCO value = 200 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 164112 } #ENG: The plan for a united Britain
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 276021 } #SCO: The Union of the Crowns (ENG vassal to SCO)
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME164047B" #Rule them independently
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = relation which = SCO value = 300 }
		command = { type = dynastic which = SCO }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 276021 } #SCO: The Union of the Crowns (ENG vassal to SCO)
	}
}

move the new command up to top

 

[Bordic]

Event 164047 should work in case Scotland does exist, so the command is useless.
I can't remember if there is another event dealing with the independence of Scotland.

 

[unmerged(49888)]

The only event I know of is an RotW event, I think it's one of E.IV's crowning events, which gives independence to SCO and the Irish minors.

 

[unmerged(166949)]

I've often been disappointed by the lack of ahistorical options if England chooses not to reject Roman supremacy. Not much seems to happen, in fact. No Civil War (because, presumably, the issues stemmed from Charles not being 'Protestant' enough?), no execution of Mary Queen of Scots, no Glorious Revolution, no nothing.

As far as Mary is concerned, if England is Catholic than I doubt there'd be much drive to execute her anyway, so that shouldn't be an option. In fact, there should then be an option to assist Mary in regaining the Throne.

I think there should definitely be an event related to the fact that, at the time James takes over, England would be Catholic and Scotland would be Reformed. Presumably, James was converted to Presbyterianism in Scotland as IRL, so would he be willing to be King of a Catholic country? Would he convert for England? If not, me thinks Mary would be the most-likely candidate as England's monarch, then? Whether or not she is still Queen of Scotland, then, should be a factor.

And would there ever be a conflict between King and Parliament, if England was still Catholic? Would Parliament ever object to the King having all the authority?

If England remained Catholic, obviously, there would be no issues between them and Spain, and most likely England would maintain decent relations with France as well.

I just think there should be some events put in to account for England remaining Catholic, just as there is for Charles winning the Civil War.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

the event below is wrong and not historical

#(1536-1820) Welsh Act of Union
event = {
	id = 3876
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 243 data = -1 } #Wales
                [color=yellow]control = { province = 243 data = -1 } #Wales
                controlchange = { province = 243 years = 30 } #Wales
                stability = 0 #stability at least 0 so that internal unrest does not prevent[/color]
		OR = {
			   [color=yellow]AND = {[/color] religion = protestant
                                        [color=yellow]provincereligion = { province = 243 data = protestant } }
                           AND = {[/color] 	religion = reformed
                                        [color=yellow]provincereligion = { province = 243 data = reformed } }[/color]
		         }
	             }
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME3876" #Welsh Act of Union
	desc = "EVENTHIST3876"
	#-#Wales had been conquered by England during the reign of Edward I, but was considered a separate country until Parliament passed the Welsh Act of Union in 1536. This act, combined with a further one in 1543, gave Wales representation in Parliament, made it subject to the same laws as England, and also made English the primary language of Wales. This hastened the anglicization of Wales, making it easier for the English to administer the province.

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1536 }
	offset = 360
	deathdate = { year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3876A" #Pass the Act
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 243 value = anglosaxon } #Wales
	}
}

What should be done is create a welsh culture ( which we can do with FTG) and allow England to have welsh culture with this event.

The first effort ( historically) to "destroy" the welsh language by England, came with an act in 1847 known as the welsh stick, this was only used in primary schools hoping that over time , welsh would be forgotten. This was found to have failed and was removed in 2009 when Wales via the EU was granted permission to also hold parliament in only the welsh language.

Even if we have the option to have more cultures in FtG - I still would not like to have new one-province-cultures again like Frisian or Syrian that were removed from AGCEEP a few versions ago.

And creating a new "welsh" culture for Wales instead of celtic while leaving Scotland, Ireland and Brittany all with "celtic" seems strange to me too.

1536 is not that bad as a starting point for a change in Wales. I read that article:
http://www.suite101.com/lesson.cfm/17851/1248/1
and the time when England started to apply only english laws in Wales instead of the old, seperate laws, seems to be a good starting time for the event.

However I suggest to change the event according to my yellow additions to make it somewhat less likely.

Edit: Reading that paragraph of the link above:
"Britain's conversion to Protestantism was relatively peaceful. The majority of people in Wales were closely allied to their fellow islanders under threats of invasion from Spain and the fear of a return to what was considered a morally and spiritually bankrupt foreign church (or foreign rule in the case of Mary and Philip).

It was this sense of a shared religious destiny that slowly integrated itself into the minds of the peoples of both countries so that they also began to think of themselves as sharing a common British heritage."

I thought that perhaps we could add the trigger that Wales needs to have the same provincereligion as the statereligion to have the event trigger?
Similar to the russian events that change culture after the province has been converted orthodox.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

I propose the following minor change:

It makes sense that if ENG returns any Scottish provinces to SCO, that it would also grant indepedence to an annexed SCO (the AI in particular has annexed SCO by now).

#(1603-1625) The Union of the Crowns
#by Bordic - modified by mandead
event = {
	id = 164047
	trigger = {
		monarch = 046013 #James I
		exists = SCO
		NOT = {
			event = 276021 #SCO: The Union of the Crowns (ENG vassal to SCO)
			vassal = { country = SCO country = ENG }
			alliance = { country = SCO country = ENG }
			war = { country = SCO country = ENG }
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME164047" #The Union of the Crowns
	desc = "EVENTHIST164047"
	#-#Elizabeth I fell ill in February 1603, suffering from frailty and insomnia. After a period of distressing reflection, on 24 March she died. The 
will of Henry VIII declared that his daughter Elizabeth was to be succeeded by the descendants of his younger sister, Mary Tudor, Duchess of Suffolk, rather 
than by the Scottish descendants of his elder sister, Margaret Tudor. However, if the rules of male primogeniture were upheld and the successor James VI, 
King of Scots, would become the legitimate successor on the throne of England. There were other male alternative heirs but none of them pressed their claims. 

Still being in Scotland at that time, James VI was proclaimed King of England as James I a few hours after Elizabeth's death by a Council of Accession.

	date = { day = 24 month = march year = 1603 }
	offset = 90
	deathdate = { day = 27 month = march year = 1625 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME164047A" #United countries of a Great Britain
		command = { type = flagname which = "Union" }
		command = { type = vassal which = SCO }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SCO value = 236 } #Highlands
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SCO value = 237 } #Grampians
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SCO value = 238 } #Strathclyde
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SCO value = 239 } #Lothian
		[COLOR="yellow"]command = { type = independence which = SCO }[/COLOR]		
                                command = { type = revoltrisk which = 24 value = 2 }
		command = { type = relation which = SCO value = 200 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 164112 } #ENG: The plan for a united Britain
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 276021 } #SCO: The Union of the Crowns (ENG vassal to SCO)
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME164047B" #Rule them independently
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = relation which = SCO value = 300 }
		command = { type = dynastic which = SCO }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 276021 } #SCO: The Union of the Crowns (ENG vassal to SCO)
	}
}

That is useless.
The trigger "exists = SCO" checks that SCO exists. So if SCO would be annexed then the event won´t happen. Granting independance in option A would be completely meaningless as the event would never fire in that case.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

I've often been disappointed by the lack of ahistorical options if England chooses not to reject Roman supremacy. Not much seems to happen, in fact. No Civil War (because, presumably, the issues stemmed from Charles not being 'Protestant' enough?), no execution of Mary Queen of Scots, no Glorious Revolution, no nothing.

As far as Mary is concerned, if England is Catholic than I doubt there'd be much drive to execute her anyway, so that shouldn't be an option. In fact, there should then be an option to assist Mary in regaining the Throne.

I think there should definitely be an event related to the fact that, at the time James takes over, England would be Catholic and Scotland would be Reformed. Presumably, James was converted to Presbyterianism in Scotland as IRL, so would he be willing to be King of a Catholic country? Would he convert for England? If not, me thinks Mary would be the most-likely candidate as England's monarch, then? Whether or not she is still Queen of Scotland, then, should be a factor.

And would there ever be a conflict between King and Parliament, if England was still Catholic? Would Parliament ever object to the King having all the authority?

If England remained Catholic, obviously, there would be no issues between them and Spain, and most likely England would maintain decent relations with France as well.

I just think there should be some events put in to account for England remaining Catholic, just as there is for Charles winning the Civil War.

IMO the civil war might just as well happen - perhaps in a somewhat less difficult way.
After all religion was not the only thing that the king with his catholic wife parted from the parliament and his protestant/puritanic subjects.
He was trying to remain king from gods grace - absolute and above the laws that parliament issued. Parliament tried to make him subject to the law himself and to get him to relinquish the right to make new laws entirely to the parliament what he refused. So if England has a high aristorcracy slider setting or the serfdom slider too high the civil war should still happen regardless of religion.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

The only event I know of is an RotW event, I think it's one of E.IV's crowning events, which gives independence to SCO and the Irish minors.

RotW? Rest of the World? Or do you mean War of the Roses/ WotR?

 

[unmerged(166949)]

I've been attempting to tinker with the England and Scotland events a bit to make some kind of branch to apply to things if England remains Catholic. I'm trying to be a bit more realistic here than I was earlier, so let's just say for a minute that Catherine of Aragon's first son, Henry, survived infancy.

To start the branch, an event could be created where Queen Catherine has a son and the kingdom rejoices. The historical choice is that he doesn't survive infancy, but you would have the choice of selecting that he does. If Catherine's son survives, Henry would have no reason to want to divorce her, thus he wouldn't have cast off Rome's Supremacy.

Henry would then go on to succeed his father as king (replacing Edward VI, and Mary I), die relatively young and be replaced by his younger sister, Elizabeth I (we'll assume Catherine was her mother as well, ensuring that she too is Catholic). Being Catholic, Queen Elizabeth wouldn't have any reason to start anything with fellow Catholics, so antagonizing Spain would be out of the question, and she wouldn't get involved with the War of Religions in France (Even being Catholic, I can't see England helping out their French rivals).

Meanwhile, Scotland's Reformation wouldn't have happened if England hadn't gone first. There simply wasn't the support for it otherwise, and it likely would have amounted to some uprisings that would be put down fairly easily. Thus, Scotland remains Catholic as well. Because Scotland's main issue with Queen Mary was that she was Catholic, they would be more forgiving of her complicity in the murder of her second husband. Thus, she wouldn't have been deposed. Since she wouldn't have been deposed, she would have likely remained the Queen of Scotland at the time that Elizabeth I died, and since England was Catholic and Henry VIII wouldn't have laid out his successors so as to avoid the Catholic Stuart line, they wouldn't have objected to her succession. Thus the Union of the Crowns would have taken place under Queen Mary instead of her son, James (Mary I could be revamped to be used in England, but it wouldn't be Mary Tudor, but Mary Stuart).

James I's reign likely wouldn't have changed much, except any Protestant-related issues wouldn't have taken place. The English Civil War would still happen, but religion wouldn't play a role in it. It would be purely due to a growing House of Commons becoming tired of Charles abusing his authority. Charles gets executed and is replaced by a Commonwealth. Etc. Etc. Etc. Charles II is restored, followed by James II.

From that point on, I'm unsure how to proceed...

 

[ConjurerDragon]

I've been attempting to tinker with the England and Scotland events a bit to make some kind of branch to apply to things if England remains Catholic. I'm trying to be a bit more realistic here than I was earlier, so let's just say for a minute that Catherine of Aragon's first son, Henry, survived infancy.

To start the branch, an event could be created where Queen Catherine has a son and the kingdom rejoices. The historical choice is that he doesn't survive infancy, but you would have the choice of selecting that he does. If Catherine's son survives, Henry would have no reason to want to divorce her, thus he wouldn't have cast off Rome's Supremacy.

Henry would then go on to succeed his father as king (replacing Edward VI, and Mary I), die relatively young and be replaced by his younger sister, Elizabeth I (we'll assume Catherine was her mother as well, ensuring that she too is Catholic). Being Catholic, Queen Elizabeth wouldn't have any reason to start anything with fellow Catholics, so antagonizing Spain would be out of the question, and she wouldn't get involved with the War of Religions in France (Even being Catholic, I can't see England helping out their French rivals).

Meanwhile, Scotland's Reformation wouldn't have happened if England hadn't gone first. There simply wasn't the support for it otherwise, and it likely would have amounted to some uprisings that would be put down fairly easily. Thus, Scotland remains Catholic as well. Because Scotland's main issue with Queen Mary was that she was Catholic, they would be more forgiving of her complicity in the murder of her second husband. Thus, she wouldn't have been deposed. Since she wouldn't have been deposed, she would have likely remained the Queen of Scotland at the time that Elizabeth I died, and since England was Catholic and Henry VIII wouldn't have laid out his successors so as to avoid the Catholic Stuart line, they wouldn't have objected to her succession. Thus the Union of the Crowns would have taken place under Queen Mary instead of her son, James (Mary I could be revamped to be used in England, but it wouldn't be Mary Tudor, but Mary Stuart).

James I's reign likely wouldn't have changed much, except any Protestant-related issues wouldn't have taken place. The English Civil War would still happen, but religion wouldn't play a role in it. It would be purely due to a growing House of Commons becoming tired of Charles abusing his authority. Charles gets executed and is replaced by a Commonwealth. Etc. Etc. Etc. Charles II is restored, followed by James II.

From that point on, I'm unsure how to proceed...

Ahistorical would be if Henry VIII decides NOT to create the anglikan church and accept that he has no male heir while staying married with Catherine and staying catholic. That could be an ahistorical b option that creates future problems as the provinces may still turn protestant when the reformation events start. Just history turned around: Instead of an anglican king trying to opress his catholic subjects and killing Thomas More we would have a catholic king fighting protestantism - like he did with his book before he wanted to get divorced. That is what you can do if you chose option b in event 3009

But having a child that died live and children of 2nd or further marriages magically be children of the first wife is fantasy and should IMO have no place in AGCEEP.