Norrefeldt

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Ryan said:
should the emperor guanrantee the independance of all minors like in PAoE?
While I like this addition in PAoE it has some problems in games where the emperor might change. In PAoE this is just overlooked, but we shouldn't. If a new emperor, not Austrian, is chosen, all guarantees will remain for Austria and the new emperor won't get them. Guarantees can not be created nor canceled by events. IMO we should use guarantees because of this.
 

Taelyn

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Norrefeldt said:
While I like this addition in PAoE it has some problems in games where the emperor might change. In PAoE this is just overlooked, but we shouldn't. If a new emperor, not Austrian, is chosen, all guarantees will remain for Austria and the new emperor won't get them. Guarantees can not be created nor canceled by events. IMO we should use guarantees because of this.

A humble suggestion:

With the new beta triggers allowed, it may be possible to give the Emporer limited ability to protect the HRE. One random event could be constructed for each of the major nations that usually go on rampages in the HRE (mainly France, Poland, Austria, Venice, Denmark, and Sweden). Each one has the trigger (example for France):

trigger = { emporer = yes OR = { war = { country = FRA country = HES } war = { country = FRA country = LOR } ... (and so on for all HRE states)

You'd really only have to write the event once and then substitute the other tags for the aggressor. There are a few other tricks you could use to make it better as well (using duplicate events instead of random events to insure the event fires). The event could give the emporer a casus belli, and maybe a little manpower.
 

unmerged(6159)

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A lot of work, but a pretty good idea.
 

Taelyn

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Isaac Brock said:
A lot of work, but a pretty good idea.

Well, here's a little help then. Here's the event for France. It includes all HRE states in the 1419 AGCEEP scenario, but you'll probably want to add a few more. To make these events for the other HRE aggressors is a simple search and replace. I haven't tested it, but it looks alright. Good luck.

Code:
event = {
	id = xxxx
	random = yes
	trigger = { 	emporer = yes
			OR = {	war = { country = FRA country = HAU }
				war = { country = FRA country = GEL }
				war = { country = FRA country = FRI }
				war = { country = FRA country = OLD }
				war = { country = FRA country = KLE }
				war = { country = FRA country = MUN }
				war = { country = FRA country = KOL }
				war = { country = FRA country = LUX }
				war = { country = FRA country = LOR }
				war = { country = FRA country = HEL }
				war = { country = FRA country = SAV }
				war = { country = FRA country = GEN }
				war = { country = FRA country = TOS }
				war = { country = FRA country = PIS }
				war = { country = FRA country = MLO }
				war = { country = FRA country = U19 }
				war = { country = FRA country = PRM }
				war = { country = FRA country = BAY }
				war = { country = FRA country = WUR }
				war = { country = FRA country = BRA }
				war = { country = FRA country = PFA }
				war = { country = FRA country = HES }
				war = { country = FRA country = HAN }
				war = { country = FRA country = BRE }
				war = { country = FRA country = MEC }
				war = { country = FRA country = SLZ }
				war = { country = FRA country = POM }
				war = { country = FRA country = U16 }	
				war = { country = FRA country = BOH }
				war = { country = FRA country = HAB }
				war = { country = FRA country = SAC }
				war = { country = FRA country = SHL } } }
	name = "Defend the Empire!"
	desc = "France has invaded the rightful domain of the Emporer, and several German princes have implored the Emporer to take action against them."
	style = 1 

	action_a = {
		name = "Defend the Empire"
		command = { type = casusbelli which = FRA value = 12 }
		command = { type = manpower value = 5 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -100 }
}
}
 

Khephren

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I guess the obvious question is, what if France is the emperor? Will the event cause a CTD? Prolly needs to be tested...
 

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You may want to include a trigger to prevent France from getting this event. You would also need a trigger (I think) to avoid getting it when you're already at war with France.

Ideally the Italians would be removed from the trigger after 1648 when they stop being part of the Empire.
 

ForzaA

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Twoflower said:
divided up Pomerania into Pomerania and Stettin; added events for Stettin and for the Pomeranian inheritance of Stettin
Pommern already had a tendency to get split up in earlier mods (all the while through the EEP, at least) mostly by Poland and some Scandinavian.. I don't know how to solve this, although giving them the EAST province as their capital seems to give them a bit better chance of survival (mainly because of Polish inability/stupidity in keeping the west rebel free if there's no land connection)
 

Twoflower

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Some ideas for new countries

Since we now have an abundance of free tags, I can finally present some ideas for new German countries that I before didn't dare to suggest for reasons of tag economy :)
  • Altmark and Neumark/Küstrin: These two have already been assigned tags by Johan. They would be used to represent two divisions of Brandenburg, the one existing between 1437 and 1463, when Friedrich the Fat ruled the Altmark and Prignitz as a sovereign prince, the other between 1535 and 1571, when Johann, called Hans of Küstrin, held the Neumark. This is hardly anything crucial, but since we have the tags...
  • Catholic (or Romanist)/ Protestant Helvetia: There were several wars among the Catholic and Protestant cantons between the 16th and 19th century. It might be interesting (though far from necessary, and possibly not even the best solution, which is what needs to be found out by testing) to use a civil war type of tag during these conflicts
  • Westphalia: Represents the Napoleonic Kingdom of Westphalia, ruled by Jerome Bonaparte. Could also be used for fantasy unification of Westphalia events.
  • Franconia and Swabia: Already have tags now. Basically the idea is to have fantasy events allowing for the recreation of the old stem duchies of Swabia and Franconia.
  • Evangelic Union and Catholic League: One approach to the Thirty Years War that might be worth consideration is to let the members (the real ones, not those who only gave nominal support) of the League and the Union merge into one country. At least the League had one united army, had its policies directed firmly by the Elector of Bavaria and all its territories were basically under direct control of Bavaria as long as the war lasted. This would also prevent Bavaria and the Palatinate from getting their TYW leaders when there is no TYW.
 

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Twoflower said:
Since we now have an abundance of free tags, I can finally present some ideas for new German countries that I before didn't dare to suggest for reasons of tag economy :)

Can we assume that this will all be done in a way that makes it compatible with the official version of the game?
 

Braedonnal

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Anhalt-Dessau: 1695 - 09.04.1747, rank 1
current stats: 4 maneuver, 4 shock, 4 fire, 3 siege
suggested stats: : 4 maneuver, 5 shock, 5 fire, 1 siege

This is the man largely responsible for the strength of the Prussian grenadiers having essentially drilled the Prussian Army into, arguably, the greatest army of this time. I might drop his shock some (I have several sources about his love of infantry and neglect of the cavalry) and raise his fire though one could agrue a good shock value due to the effect his superbly drilled infantry had on enemy armies.

Here are a couple examples.

I never saw anything more beautiful. They marched with the utmost composure; arrow-straight, their front like a plumb-line, absolutely level, as if they had been on parade, their sidearms glittering with the most superb effect in the declining sun, their volleys sounding without pause like a continuous growl of thunder."

an Austrian officer observing Prussian infantry at Mollwitz.​

It wasn't only beautiful, however; it was almost eerie to see these grenadiers approach without wavering, each man killed replaced instantly by one who moved up, so that the front rank was never broken. Confronted by this sight, the Austrian infantry first broke ranks, then began to huddle together, presently fell apart and finally ran away in terror.

from The Soldier Kings-The House of Hohenzollern​

As to Schwerin, he did quite well at Mollwitz (using the troops von Anhalt- Dessau had created, mind you) but in the Second Silesian War he was unable to win the war of maneuver (the Prussian Army was better suited to fighting pitched battles) against von Traun in Bohemia and was forced to retreat to Silesia were they barricaded themselves in forts as the Austrians pillaged the land. Who did Frederick turn to fix this situation? Prince Leopold of Anhalt-Dessau, who he had discarded upon taking the throne as a has-been from his father's era, and after three weeks in Silesia "Old Dessauer" had driven out all Austrian forces. This is also the man that took all of Saxony in a week and all the more incredible considering his age at the time.

3 siege might have been overmuch but he participated in numerous sieges along the Rhine and Netherlands and not to mention the assaults in Saxony.

You can read all about him here if you need more.

http://72.1911encyclopedia.org/A/AN/ANHALT_DESSAU_LEOPOLD_I_OF.htm

I'd say maybe (4/4/6/2) or maybe (3/5/6/2) for his stats.

I hope this helps. :)
 

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Inclusion of the stem duchies/Westphalia would be nice fantasy options :)

Switzerland is probably to small (two provinces) to have an effective civil war, not to mention that often they will be a one province country or they have expanded making it difficult what to do with those extra provinces.

Evangelic/Catholic Union would be very nice if it could work, a real 30 years would be nice to see. Still many problems still will arise that IMHO cannot be solved with the current engine (Swedish involvment, wars on and off, etc.)

The Altmark/Neumark situation would be similar to the Saxony situation right? If so I don't know, I don't really like the Saxon situation, it confuses me a lot. Plus 26 years and 36 years is not a lot.
 

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Braedonnal said:
This is the man largely responsible for the strength of the Prussian grenadiers having essentially drilled the Prussian Army into, arguably, the greatest army of this time. I might drop his shock some (I have several sources about his love of infantry and neglect of the cavalry) and raise his fire though one could agrue a good shock value due to the effect his superbly drilled infantry had on enemy armies.
But this was also the infantry that was doctrinally committed to the bayonet attack throughout the first and second Silesian wars. Not that Dessau was necessarily responsible for that, but it seems to me that more emphasis on shock than firepower would be appropriate.

As to Schwerin, he did quite well at Mollwitz (using the troops von Anhalt- Dessau had created, mind you) but in the Second Silesian War he was unable to win the war of maneuver (the Prussian Army was better suited to fighting pitched battles) against von Traun in Bohemia and was forced to retreat to Silesia were they barricaded themselves in forts as the Austrians pillaged the land. Who did Frederick turn to fix this situation? Prince Leopold of Anhalt-Dessau, who he had discarded upon taking the throne as a has-been from his father's era, and after three weeks in Silesia "Old Dessauer" had driven out all Austrian forces. This is also the man that took all of Saxony in a week and all the more incredible considering his age at the time.

3 siege might have been overmuch but he participated in numerous sieges along the Rhine and Netherlands and not to mention the assaults in Saxony.
Wasn't the mess in Bohemia largely Frederick's fault anyway? And how much of the credit for the rapid collapse of Saxony ought to go to Frederick. I'm just arguing a few of the details here.

I think you need to remember that Prussia will get him for an awful long time, and have multiple other excellent generals at the same time. As such I worry about a 6 being excessive. Siege 2 I find questionable but not outrageous (simply because the siege stat is so powerful, and I'd rather limit siege 2 to the top couple of siege experts in a generation).
 

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Completely off topic, but Ive played a few games until at least 1650, and Brandenburg has never formed into Prussia, namely because its is constantly being annexed, maybe something to stregnthen them through the early years, and then again, maybe Im just unlucky...
 

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Asmodius said:
Completely off topic, but Ive played a few games until at least 1650, and Brandenburg has never formed into Prussia, namely because its is constantly being annexed, maybe something to stregnthen them through the early years, and then again, maybe Im just unlucky...
Nope i see that too, initially they perform well but then they get eaten up, often by Hungary for some reason :wacko:
 

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Bavaria's leader file

As a next step in reviewing German leader files, after Brandenburg-Prussia and Saxony have been (more or less) done in a satisfactory way, here are my proposals for the Bavarian leader file:
Ernst
Duke Ernst of Bavaria-Munich
not included yet
Participated in his father's feud against Ludwig of Bavaria-Ingolstadt in 1395. Took Friedberg and Schwaben. Unsuccessfully sieged Munich, which refused to swear allegiance to him, in 1403. Began a feud against Ludwig of Bavaria-Ingolstadt again in 1421. Captured Friedberg and Wasserburg in 1422. When Ludwig managed to get around his army and threatened Munich, Ernst pursued him and provoked a battle. This battle on September 19th near Alling turned into a brillant and decisive victory for Ernst. During the conflict over the succesion to Bavaria-Straubing quickly seized most of Straubing.
serves: 1395 - July 2nd 1438 (his deathdate)
rank: 0 (monarch leader)
stats:
suggested: maneuver 3, shock 3, fire 2, siege 0

Abensberg
Niklas von Abensberg
not included yet
The highest captain of Albrecht the Wise in the feud with his brother Christoph. Excelled in the battle of Gingen of 1462, serving Bavaria-Landshut. Captured Christoph, younger brother of the Duke of Bavaria-Munich, in 1471 during the first feud betweenthe brothers. In the second feud 14 years later, he captured most of Christoph's possessions, but was killed in an ambush.
serves: 1470 - 1485
rank: 3
stats:
suggested: maneuver 3, shock 2, fire 2, siege 0

Christoph
Duke Christoph, younger brother of Albrecht the Wise
not included yet
One of the most reputed warriors of his time. Involved in permanent feuds with his brother, demanding a partition of the heritage. A reconciliation was achieved on June 12th 1485. Thereafter, Christoph led the Bavarian army that fought for Maximilian in the Netherlands and for the Emperor in Hungary. Responsible for the successful assault on Stuhlweißenburg. Began a quarrel with his brother again after returning in November 1490. This was only ended when he decided to go on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem in 1493, during which he died.
serves: June 12th 1485 - November 1st 1490
rank: 2
stats:
suggested: maneuver 2, shock 3, fire 2, siege 1

Winzerer
Kaspar Winzerer
not included yet
Nicknamed "miles auratus", the golden knight. Knighted by Emperor Maximilian after participating in the victorious battle of Schönberg in 1504. Commander of the Bavarian contingent in the two campaigns of the army of the Swabian League against Duke Ulrich of Wirtemberg in 1519. Led the Bavarian soldiers in Frundsberg's Italian army. Helped capture King Francis in the battle of Pavia. Called back to Bavaria when the peasant uprisings began to threaten the country. Defeated the peasants who tried to invade Bavaria from Tyrol and Swabia. Sent to Hungary with a small Bavarian troop in 1526, where he could not do much. Mainly used for diplomatic missions between Bavaria and Janos Zapolya thereafter. Died on October 28th 1542.
serves: 1504 - October 28th 1542
rank: 3
stats:
suggested: maneuver 2, shock 3, fire 2, siege 0

Tilly
Johann Tserclaes Graf von Tilly
included in EU2
Summarising his whole career would take rather long. One of the three best leaders of the Thirty Years War, only Wallenstein and Gustav Adolf were probably superior to him. Of the 38 battles he fought in his life he lost only three, Breitenfeld and Rain am Lech, both against G2A, who has 6-6-5-1, had a much more disciplined and better trained army and outnumbered Tilly's army by 10000 men, and Mingolsheim against Mansfeld in 1622. He became the commander of the Bavarian army in 1608, when Maximilian appointed him to seize Donauwörth. White Mountain - arguably the most spectacular victory anybody managed to pull off in TYW - was his victory. Among the cities he managed to capture are Heidelberg, Mannheim and, most notably, Magdeburg.
He is beyond any doubt in, the question is whether he is currently underrated (he has 3-4-4-1). Certainly he was no genius like Wallenstein or G2A, yet still very good and better than anybody else. Rather low maneuver might be right, since he
took massive losses because of bad quarters or bad marching plans during some campaigns (which was partially due to Wallenstein forcing him to take those bad positions), but a 5 in shock or fire is justified IMO. He also performed the two most well-known sieges of the TYW, Heidelberg and Magdeburg, which makes a 2 in siege at least worth consideration - probably should remain 1 if we decide to tune down the siege values throughout the place.
serves: 1608 - April 30th 1632
rank: 0
stats:
currently: maneuver 3, shock 4, fire 4, siege 1
suggested: maneuver 3, shock 5, fire 5, siege 1

Geleen
Gottfried Huyn Graf von Geleen und Amsterad
not included yet
Joined the Austrian army in Italy in 1615 as a volunteer, switched to Bavarian service in 1618. Gained fame by defending Wolfenbüttel against the Duke of Lüneburg in 1632. As a consequence received his first independent command over an army of 10000 men in Westphalia. Defeated armies of Hesse, Lüneburg and Swedes under Stahlhandske in smaller engagements. Returned to the Austrian army in 1636. Appointed commander of Austria's army in the Rhineland in 1639. Successfully sieged Bingen in 1640. Protected the Bishoprics of Würzburg and Bamberg against Sweden until the end of the year. Helped Leopold Wilhelm expel Baner from the Upper Palatinate in 1641. Left the army in 1642, back in 1644 when he again received a command in Westphalia. United his army with that of Mercy, commanded the right wing in the lost battle at Alerheim. Replaced Mercy as commander of Bavaria's Westphalian army after the battle. Definitely ended his military career in March 1647, when Bavaria left the war.
serves: 1618 - 1636
rank: 4
stats:
suggested: maneuver 3, shock 3, fire 2, siege 0

Werth
Johann Graf von Werth
included in EU2
Legendary cavalry general. Joined the army of the League in 1630. Decided the battle of Nördlingen by a brillant cavalry charge. Responsible for the invasion of France in 1636, that stopped before Paris. Defeated Melander near Koblenz in 1637, retook the fortress of Ehrenbreitstein. Trying to prevent Bernhard of Saxe-Weimar from crossing the Rhine, he first gained a victory at Rheinfelden on February 28th 1638, but was defeated and captured on March 3rd. Released ony in March 1642. Shortly thereafter served the Archbishop-Elector of Cologne and liberated all of Cologne. Then won battles for the Emperor against France at Tuttlingen in 1643 and Freiburg in 1644. In 1645 was defeated by a Swedish army near Jankau, won against the French at Herbsthausen and was beaten at Allerheim. Refused to stop fighting when Bavaria left the war on March 16th 1647, as a consequence the Elector outlawed him and he had to flee to Austria.
Also worth consideration as a leader for Cologne, if only for one year.
serves: 1630 - February 28th 163 8
rank: 2
stats:
currently: maneuver 4, shock 2, fire 3, siege 0
suggested: maneuver 4, shock 4, fire 2, siege 0

Gronsfeld
Jost Maximilian Graf von Bronckhorst und Gronsfeld
included in EU2
An officer in the League's army since the beginning of the Thirty Years War. Participated in the siege of Magdeburg and the battle of Leipzig. Had his first independent mission thereafter, ordered to protect the Weser frontline against Georg of Lüneburg, which he failed to do after some fierce fighting. Invaded Westphalia with an army of 13000 men in 1633, defeated by Melander at Oldendorf. Tried to siege Heidelberg in the next year, had to retreat upon the approaching of a French army. Commanded the Bavarian contingent under Gallas throughout 1635. Resigned from the army after the complete failure of Gallas' campaign. Returned in 1645, when he took over the command of Bavaria's army in the Upper Palatinat. Led the Bavarian army to Bohemia in 1647, where it was united with the Austrians of Melander. Stayed with the allied army when it invaded Hesse, but left it because of a quarrel with Melander, taking his army to Franconia. Returned to help Melander against the advancing Swedes and French under Wrangel and Turenne. Participated in the disaster at Zusmarshausen, and took over the command of the army from the late Melander. Was unable to stop the enemy's invasion of Bavaria. Died in 1662.
serves: 1631 - 1662
rank: 2
stats:
currently: maneuver 2, shock 2, fire 2, siege 0
suggested: maneuver 3, shock 2, fire 2, siege 0

Aldringer
Johann Graf von Aldringen
not included yet
Participated in the siege of Heidelberg in 1622. Gained his first merits by skillfully defending the bridge of Dessau against repeated attacks for almost a month until Wallenstein's arrival and the famous battle. Captured Plauen in 1627. Took part in the War of Mantuan succession under Collalto. Invaded Wirtemberg with an own army thereafter. Distinguished himself in the battle of Nürnberg, and was praised enthusiastically by Wallenstein. While Wallenstein turned north after the battle, he defended Bavaria against Horn throughout 1632, retook Landsberg and Güntzburg. Switched from the Emperor's to the Bavarian army in
1633. Successfully assaulted Kempten in January 1633. Quite successful in slowing down Horn, however had to retreat gradually when Horn's army was joined by that of Bernhard of Saxe-Weimar. United his army with the Spanish forces of the Duque de Feria in autumn 1633. Together, the Bavarian and Spanish army took Konstanz and Breisach. Gathered an army of 10000 men in Bavaria in 1634 and managed to recover Straubing. Killed in the assault on Regensburg on July 22nd 1634.
serves: 1633 - July 22nd 1634
rank: 1
stats:
suggested: maneuver 3, shock 3, fire 3, siege 1

Mercy
Franz Freiherr von Mercy
included in EU2
First mentioned as an officer under Tilly in 1631. Appointed commander of a Bavarian army on September 27th 1638. Forced Baner to retreat to Bohemia in 1640 and 1641. Responsible for the brillant victories at Tuttlingen in 1643 and at Herbsthausen in 1645, both against the French. By holding Wirtemberg, he prevented the French and Swedish army from uniting. Shot during the battle for Allerheim (that was won due to his brillant planning) on August 3rd 1645. Paradox certainly underrates him, he had an almost clean record and definitely was one of the better leaders of the TYW. I'd thus give him at least 3-3-3-0, even a 4 in either shock or fire might not be over the top.
serves: September 27th 1638 - August 3rd 1645
rank: 1
stats:
currently: maneuver 1, shock 3, fire 3, siege 0
suggested: maneuver 3, shock 3, fire 3, siege 0

Maximilian II Emanuel
Elector Maximilian II Emanuel of Bavaria
included in EU2
Important in the battle for Vienna with his Bavarian army of 12000 men. During the war against the Turks won battles at Gran and Mohacs, successfully assaulted Neuhäusl, Buda and Belgrade. Commander of the Imperial army in the War of Palatine Succession, without particular success. Joined the French side in the War of Spanish Succession by seizing Ulm on September 9th 1702. Missed the opportunity to decide the war by going for Vienna immediately, instead decided to invade Tyrol with 12000 men. Beaten back by popular resistance. Won the first battle of Hochstädt on September 20th 1703 against Austrians under Styrum. The defeat in the second (famous) battle of Hochstädt in 1704 was probably less his fault than of the French. While Bavaria was occupied by Austria and treated like a conquered province, Max Emanuel continued the fight in the Lowlands for a while, where he however was mostly ignored by the French generals who were actually in charge.
serves: 1683 - February 26th 1726 (his deathdate)
rank: 0 (monarch leader)
stats:
currently: maneuver 3, shock 3, fire 2, siege 0
suggested: maneuver 3, shock 3, fire 2, siege 1

Törring
Ignaz Graf von Törring
not included yet
serves: 1715 - 1743
rank: 3
stats:
suggested: maneuver 2, shock 2, fire 2, siege 1

Seckendorf
Friedrich Heinrich Graf von Seckendorf
included in EU2
serves: 1741 - 1745
rank: 3
stats:
currently: maneuver 3, shock 3, fire 3, siege 0
suggested: can remain as they are

Deroy
Erasmus Graf von Deroy
included in EEP
serves: 1792 - August 28th 1712
rank: 3
stats:
currently: maneuver 2, shock 2, fire 3, siege 0
suggested: can remain as they are

Wrede
Karl Philipp Fürst von Wrede
included in EEP
serves: 1799 - 1838
rank: 3
stats:
currently: maneuver 4, shock 3, fire 3, siege 0
suggested: maneuver 4, shock 3, fire 3, siege 1
 
Last edited:
G

GeneralSnoopy

Guest
Border Conflicts, Feuds

Twoflower said:
IMO the only satisfactory solution to this is to give all German states peaceful.ai throughout the 15th century and not represent their minor feuds as wars in EU2.

There are wars and then there are wars. Border clashes, feuds, and other low-level violence would probably best be modeled through events. An event could cause the loss of some troops and some dip relations, but no territory would change hands. These events could be triggered on real historical dates or they could also be random.

An EU2 style war is one where the independent existence of the state would hang in the balance.
 

Norrefeldt

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Aug 1, 2001
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Twoflower said:
Winzerer
Kaspar Winzerer
not included yet
Nicknamed "miles auratus", the golden knight. Knighted by Emperor Maximilian after participating in the victorious battle of Schönberg in 1504. Commander of the Bavarian contingent in the two campaigns of the army of the Swabian League against Duke Ulrich of Wirtemberg in 1519. Led the Bavarian soldiers in Frundsberg's Italian army. Helped capture King Francis in the battle of Pavia. Called back to Bavaria when the peasant uprisings began to threaten the country. Defeated the peasants who tried to invade Bavaria from Tyrol and Swabia. Sent to Hungary with a small Bavarian troop in 1526, where he could not do much. Mainly used for diplomatic missions between Bavaria and Janos Zapolya thereafter. Died on October 28th 1542.
serves: 1504 - October 28th 1542
rank: 3
stats:
suggested: maneuver 2, shock 3, fire 2, siege 0

Tilly
Johann Tserclaes Graf von Tilly
included in EU2
Summarising his whole career would take rather long. One of the three best leaders of the Thirty Years War, only Wallenstein and Gustav Adolf were probably superior to him. Of the 38 battles he fought in his life he lost only three, Breitenfeld and Rain am Lech, both against G2A, who has 6-6-5-1, had a much more disciplined and better trained army and outnumbered Tilly's army by 10000 men, and Mingolsheim against Mansfeld in 1622. He became the commander of the Bavarian army in 1608, when Maximilian appointed him to seize Donauwörth. White Mountain - arguably the most spectacular victory anybody managed to pull off in TYW - was his victory. Among the cities he managed to capture are Heidelberg, Mannheim and, most notably, Magdeburg.
He is beyond any doubt in, the question is whether he is currently underrated (he has 3-4-4-1). Certainly he was no genius like Wallenstein or G2A, yet still very good and better than anybody else. Rather low maneuver might be right, since he
took massive losses because of bad quarters or bad marching plans during some campaigns (which was partially due to Wallenstein forcing him to take those bad positions), but a 5 in shock or fire is justified IMO. He also performed the two most well-known sieges of the TYW, Heidelberg and Magdeburg, which makes a 2 in siege at least worth consideration - probably should remain 1 if we decide to tune down the siege values throughout the place.
serves: 1608 - April 30th 1632
rank: 0
stats:
currently: maneuver 3, shock 4, fire 4, siege 1
suggested: maneuver 3, shock 5, fire 5, siege 1

Törring
Ignaz Graf von Törring
not included yet
serves: 1715 - 1743
rank: 3
stats:
suggested: maneuver 2, shock 2, fire 2, siege 1

Seckendorf
Friedrich Heinrich Graf von Seckendorf
included in EU2
serves: 1741 - 1745
rank: 3
stats:
currently: maneuver 3, shock 3, fire 3, siege 0
suggested: can remain as they are

Deroy
Erasmus Graf von Deroy
included in EEP
serves: 1792 - August 28th 1712
rank: 3
stats:
currently: maneuver 2, shock 2, fire 3, siege 0
suggested: can remain as they are

Wrede
Karl Philipp Fürst von Wrede
included in EEP
serves: 1799 - 1838
rank: 3
stats:
currently: maneuver 4, shock 3, fire 3, siege 0
suggested: maneuver 4, shock 3, fire 3, siege 1
Interesting Twoflower. Bavaria needs leaders since it's supposed to be rather important.
Kaspar Winzerer, was he leading armies till his death? Not that he will unbalance anything with his stats, I'm just wondering. Is Tilly given rank 0 on the grounds that he was good. It's not something we have decided to follow, but I kind of like the idea with mostly monarchs as 0. Could be extended to very able ones as well. Will you add information on the last ones? Deroy's date has a typo.
I see that you have called the leaders by their last name, but shouldn't the 'von' be added to several as well? I don't know enough about German standard in this case, but it should be by German standard, that's for sure.
Nice work. :)
 

unmerged(9404)

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Twoflower said:
Ernst
Duke Ernst of Bavaria-Munich

rank: 0 (monarch leader)

Question: Should leaders of countries which are not a monarchy get leaders with the rank of monarch. This would allow them -if they are allied with a "higher ranking" country that also has a monarch leader- to steal sieges where normally it would go to the "higher ranking" country. I don't think this is a good idea, though it might be justified in some situations.
 

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Ironfoundersson said:
Question: Should leaders of countries which are not a monarchy get leaders with the rank of monarch. This would allow them -if they are allied with a "higher ranking" country that also has a monarch leader- to steal sieges where normally it would go to the "higher ranking" country. I don't think this is a good idea, though it might be justified in some situations.

Can't Field Marshals (or Field Chief Judges) already steal sieges from Monarchs? I don't see much of a problem here, the AI is usually to stupid to siegesteal properly anyway...
 

Twoflower

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Ironfoundersson said:
Question: Should leaders of countries which are not a monarchy get leaders with the rank of monarch. This would allow them -if they are allied with a "higher ranking" country that also has a monarch leader- to steal sieges where normally it would go to the "higher ranking" country. I don't think this is a good idea, though it might be justified in some situations.
While I do agree with your point, remember that this is in fact already done quíte much, both in vanilla EU2 and EEP. Among many others, non-Kingdoms like Milan, the Palatinate, Burgundy, Lithuania, Hanover, Savoy, Albania or Brandenburg all get monarch leaders (and all those countries are monarchies, just no Kingdoms). Did anybody ever experiment with giving monarch leaders ranks (lower than rank 0)? I know I implemented a monarch leader for Wirtemberg with rank 3 a while ago, but still don't know whether this has any effect.
Should this work, we could try to introduce a rank system for monarchs, where 0 goes to Kings, Emperors and Popes, 1 to sovereign rulers who are of lower rank (the Duke of Burgundy, the Grand Dukes of Lithuania and Muscovy), 2 to vassal princes of the HRE, the Kingdom of France or any other monarchy (e.g. I would put the monarchs of Anatolian ghazi states or of Ottoman vassal states like Walachia in that category). However otherwise for reasons of consistency I do not think Bavarian monarchs should be treated differently from monarchs of any of the mentioned countries.

EDIT: Please do not start to get nitpicky about countries in Asia or Africa because these do not know European titles :D Since most of these states were completely sovereign entities, there is nothing wrong about using rank 0 all over the place there, perhaps with the exception of some monarchs subject to the Emperor of China.