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Twoflower

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This thread is dedicated to developing a 1520 scenario for the AGCEEP. If it is possible to fix the evil CtD bugs that were in the old scenario, the base used will be the EEP 1520 scenario, with some changes by Peter Ebbesen's scenario and general MP balance considerations taken into account plus everything that needs to be done to make it compatible with the AGCEEP.
Suggestions, bug reports for the old scenario etc are most welcome.

New stuff implemented in the last beta
  • nothing yet, the scenario still needs to be made compatible to the AGCEEP
Things that need to be done
  • fix the bugs in the old scenario
  • decide which ideas from PE's scenario should be used
  • make the scenario compatible to changes to the setup, events, country list etc that the AGCEEP has done
Gameplay issues
MP issues
  • Achieving a good balance is crucial if we desire this to become a good choice for a MP game
 
Last edited:

Twoflower

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This is a preliminary list of AGCEEP changes in the 1419 scenario that should probably be implemented in the 1520 scenario as well. I will edit this as a result of discussion:

Iberia
  • introduction of Catalan and Portuguese culture (the correct country cultures need to be assigned, plus province cultures for some colonies)
France
  • nothing, except perhaps some province capitals, and DPs
British Isles
  • Province distribution and cores in Ireland?
  • anything the experts come up with in the Beta development thread
Lowlands
  • Introduction of Frisian culture
Germany & Austria
  • removal of Mainz, Magdeburg and Salzburg
  • the Austrian capital should be in Tyrol, Tyrol should have a manufactory and its provincetax increased by 2
  • Austria owns Baden and Krain
  • Bavaria owns Ansbach
  • the Palatinate owns Mainz and has its capital there
  • Brandenburg owns Magdeburg
  • Kleve owns Kleves and Münster (actually, Berg should still be independent and the two countries merge by event in 1521, but I don't think having it independent for one year is worth the hassle this may always cause)
  • Brandenburg is allied to Bayreuth

Bohemia & Hungary
  • Bohemia and Hungary are allied, Bohemia is a vassal of Hungary
  • provincetaxes, manpower and DPs need to be adjusted according to the effects of some events

Italy
  • Venice owns Mantua
  • the Papal States own Emilia

Balkans
  • no scenario changes needed?

Poland and Baltic states
  • please supply information

Scandinavia
  • nothing really changed about the setup, balance between Denmark and Sweden is another, highly important issue[/B]
Russia
  • Russian capital is in Tula
  • Russia owns Tula and Ryazan
  • Ryazan owns Vorones

Anatolia
  • Ghazi states are already dead by this point, OE owns all their territory
  • OE owns Kerch, Sochi and Armenia

Asia and Africa
  • please supply information (will of course create subcategories then)
 
Last edited:

unmerged(6159)

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Mantua will be Venetian for MP purposes? I had thought we were leaning towards the vassalage option.

Emilia being papal really relies on getting the coding done for creating Parma. Until that is complete I would leave Emilia as belonging to Modena. After all Parma should be created 25 years into this scenario.

At a higher level I have a question about how you're attacking this work. How important is it to maintain consistency between the two scenarios while we are still in beta? For instance the only real reason to put Moscow in Tula is to maintain consistency with 1419. I'm sure we'd get more feedback on the change if the two (beta) scenarios were different. I strongly believe that when we get to a real release the two scenarios should be as consistent as possible, but at this stage having differences allows something like a side-by-side comparison, which might be more useful for a lot of the things that are being tried out in the beta test (North American natives, Mongolia, culture changes).
 

Twoflower

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Isaac Brock said:
Mantua will be Venetian for MP purposes? I had thought we were leaning towards the vassalage option.
To be honest, I did not really follow the discussion, listed this because it is in the 1419 scenario. For mp purposes however a solid Venice is quite a crucial thing...
Emilia being papal really relies on getting the coding done for creating Parma. Until that is complete I would leave Emilia as belonging to Modena. After all Parma should be created 25 years into this scenario.
But Modena shouldn't have two provinces, should it?
At a higher level I have a question about how you're attacking this work. How important is it to maintain consistency between the two scenarios while we are still in beta? For instance the only real reason to put Moscow in Tula is to maintain consistency with 1419. I'm sure we'd get more feedback on the change if the two (beta) scenarios were different. I strongly believe that when we get to a real release the two scenarios should be as consistent as possible, but at this stage having differences allows something like a side-by-side comparison, which might be more useful for a lot of the things that are being tried out in the beta test (North American natives, Mongolia, culture changes).
I agree that consistency generally is not obligatory, however some things need to be consistent for them to work at all. E.g. the reason for putting in the move of Moscow is that several events refer to the city of Moscow.
 

unmerged(6159)

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Woops, the Moscow point is sort of obvious. Sorry. How do you feel about the others - using the different scenarios to compare different approaches?

edit: And another problem with giving Emilia to the Papacy is that is now not connected to the Papal States (as it was in the EEP). So (for now) I would give Romagna back to the Papal States and put Ferrara/Modena in Emilia. You're right that they shouldn't have two provinces.
 
Last edited:

Peter Ebbesen

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Good luck.

One of the biggies will be whether you run with a separate Poland and Lithuania - and the usual early Polish decline, as everybody and his dog chips away at AI Lithuania in MP before the union, which historically led to the situation that nobody wanted to play Poland since it was considered annexation bait by everybody - or whether you choose to unite them early, with the attendant dangers of having a super-Poland making inroads on Germany and Russia.

[Well, everybody in the neighbourhood makes inroads in Germany in MP, come to think of it. That is not a particularly Polish predelection - they just happen not to have many other choices]

EDIT: If you want them, Twoflower, I can mail you the .inc files currently used to create the 1520 PAoE, which should make it easier for you to choose which modifications (if any) from it you want to apply.
 

unmerged(6159)

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Looking through the files I noticed that both Portugal and Spain have "colonial attempts = 0" in the 1520 scenario. As Portugal has 10 in 1419, I think this is an oversight. Probably should adopt Peter's numbers.
 

Bordic

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Twoflower said:
Italy
  • Venice owns Mantua
  • the Papal States own Emilia
Since the monarchs for Parma were made and a future independence event for the Farnese duchy of Parma is going to be made (probably by me ;) ) we need to put Modena back to Romagna (391) and give Emilia (402) to France ( :eek: ), not to Papal States or to Spain.

Parma was under papal rule in 1513-1515 and then in 1521-1527 in the wars against France.
Parma was also an imperial feud conquered by Charles V in 1527 (after the Sack of Rome).
But in 1539 Parma became papal again as one of the conditions in the treaty of Nice and in 1545 definitely a Duchy with a Farnese Pope's son as ruler.

So my suggestions:
restoration of Modena in Romagna (391).
removal of core 391 from Papal States .inc file.
Emilia (402) owned by France in 1520 scenario in the start-up.

and if needed a possible core on Emilia for papal states or Spain.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(40707)

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After the move of 1419 provinces definitions in province.csv, here is the result of changes for 1520 scenario:
Code:
#
# Provinces
#

# Islam spread to Nubia
province = { id = 749 religion = sunni } #Nubia
province = { id = 750 religion = sunni } #Sudan
province = { id = 751 religion = sunni } #Bisharin

# Purge of the Moors
province = { id = 438 religion = catholic } #Murcia
province = { id = 443 religion = catholiC } #Andalusia

# Turkish expansion
province = { id = 356 religion = sunni } #Bulgaria
province = { id = 361 religion = sunni } #Albania
province = { id = 364 religion = sunni } #Bosnia
province = { id = 357 religion = sunni culture = "turkish" } #Thrace
province = { id = 464 religion = sunni culture = "turkish" } #Kaffa
province = { id = 477 religion = sunni } #Anatolia
province = { id = 478 religion = sunni culture = "turkish" } #Smyrna
province = { id = 483 religion = sunni } #Adana

# The Conversion of Persia
province = { id = 487 religion = shiite tax = 16 } #Azerbaijan
province = { id = 488 religion = shiite } #Kirkuk
province = { id = 1526 religion = shiite } #Zahedan
province = { id = 1528 religion = shiite } #Kushka
province = { id = 1529 religion = shiite } #Birjand
province = { id = 1530 religion = shiite } #Khorasan
province = { id = 1531 religion = shiite } #Herat

# Mongol culture
province = { id = 591 culture = "mongol" } #Krasnoyarsk
province = { id = 592 culture = "mongol" } #Balakhta
province = { id = 594 culture = "mongol" } #Bratsk
province = { id = 596 culture = "mongol" } #Touva
province = { id = 597 culture = "mongol" } #Saian
province = { id = 599 culture = "mongol" } #Tannu Ola
province = { id = 601 culture = "mongol" } #Chatga
province = { id = 602 culture = "mongol" } #Selenga
province = { id = 603 culture = "mongol" } #Ulan Ude
province = { id = 605 culture = "mongol" } #Tchita
province = { id = 607 culture = "mongol" } #Sretensk

province = { id = 274 income = 6 } #Novgorod (9)
province = { id = 279 income = 19 } #Moscow/Tula (13)
province = { id = 272 manpower = 8 } #Nizhgorod (6)
province = { id = 267 income = 6 } #Olonets (5)
province = { id = 823 income = 4 } #Azores (3)
province = { id = 388 manpower = 8 tax = 10 } #Bern (7/9?)
province = { id = 405 manpower = 5 tax = 13 } #Chambéry (6/14?)
province = { id = 465 religion = sunni culture = "naskapi" } #Kerch
province = { id = 1535 culture = "khazak" } #Karsak
province = { id = 1534 culture = "uzbehk" } #Kyzylkum
province = { id = 1536 culture = "khazak" } #Nura
province = { id = 517 culture = "khazak" } #Turgai
province = { id = 579 culture = "khazak" } #Karaganda
province = { id = 518 culture = "khazak" } #Ust Urt
province = { id = 1594 culture = "uzbehk" income = 7 manpower = 5 } #Uzbek (6/6)
province = { id = 523 manpower = 2 } #Kara Kum (3)
province = { id = 1533 culture = "uzbehk" manpower = 4 } #Khiva (3)
province = { id = 522 culture = "uzbehk" } #Khwarizm
province = { id = 1592 culture = "uzbehk" income = 14 manpower = 7 } #Samarkand (11/8)
province = { id = 1532 income = 15 manpower = 6 } #Bukhara (12/5)
province = { id = 516 culture = "khazak" } #Aralsk
province = { id = 647 tax = 20 } #Liaoning (19?)  
province = { id = 666 manpower = 3 tax = 8 } #Mekong Delta (4/7?)
province = { id = 667 tax = 8 } #Khmer (7?)
province = { id = 668 income = 7 manpower = 4 tax = 7 } #Cambodia (6/5/?)
province = { id = 1522 religion = hinduism income = 7 } #Bikaner (3)
province = { id = 1523 manpower = 1 } #Thar (3)
province = { id = 682 religion = sunni } #Palembang
province = { id = 1496 tax = 10 } #Gao (8?)
province = { id = 1497 tax = 6 } #Say (8?)
province = { id = 1501 religion = sunni } #Kano
province = { id = 676 religion = sunni culture = "malay" } #Perak
province = { id = 689 culture = "indian" tolerance = 0 } #Taiwan
province = { id = 698 religion = sunni } #Badjarmasin
province = { id = 708 religion = sunni } #Makassar
province = { id = 706 religion = sunni } #Manado
province = { id = 703 religion = sunni manpower = 5 } #Bandung (6)
province = { id = 704 religion = sunni manpower = 5 } #Surabaja (6)
province = { id = 711 manpower = 1 } #Flores (3)
province = { id = 693 religion = sunni } #Mindanao
province = { id = 712 negotiation = 1 } #Timor
province = { id = 713 religion = sunni manpower = 4 income = 8 } #Tindore (3/8)
province = { id = 273 income = 3 } #Savolaks (2)
province = { id = 265 income = 3 } # Nyland (4)
province = { id = 342 income = 3 manpower = 2 } #Finland (4/1)
province = { id = 785 religion = catholic } #Kongo
province = { id = 323 goods = 12 } #Transylvania gold->salt
province = { id = 400 income = 12 } #Siena (11)
province = { id = 401 income = 14 } #Firenze (16)
province = { id = 244 income = 12 } #Milands (11)
province = { id = 245 income = 9 } #Lincoln (8)
province = { id = 246 income = 10 } #Bristol (9)
province = { id = 247 income = 17 } #Anglia (16)
province = { id = 248 income = 10 } #Kent (9)
province = { id = 249 income = 9 } #Wessex (8)
province = { id = 1560 tax = 5 } #Ningxia (4?)
province = { id = 236 income = 4 } #The Highlands (3)
province = { id = 237 income = 6 } #The Grampians (5)
province = { id = 238 income = 7 } #Lothian (6)
province = { id = 239 income = 8 } #Strathclyde (7)
province = { id = 481 tax = 7 } #Rhodes (2?)
province = { id = 343 tax = 12 } #Kleves (7?)
province = { id = 1488 mine = 3 } #Bambuk (Walata)
province = { id = 1489 mine = 3 } #Bure (Jenne)
province = { id = 1490 goods = 7 } #Jenne (Bambuk) metal->ivor
province = { id = 1494 goods = 6 religion = sunni } #Ouagadougou (Bure) ivor->grai
province = { id = 1495 religion = sunni } #Timbuktu
province = { id = 1497 religion = sunni } #Say
province = { id = 296 culture = "turkish" } #Jedisan

# Spanish Colonies
province = { id = 39 religion = catholic culture = "iberian" } #Isthmus
province = { id = 137 religion = catholic culture = "iberian" } #Havana
province = { id = 138 religion = catholic culture = "iberian" } #Moron
province = { id = 139 religion = catholic culture = "iberian" } #Guantanamo
province = { id = 140 religion = catholic culture = "iberian" } #Jamaica
province = { id = 142 religion = catholic culture = "iberian" } #Tortuga
province = { id = 143 religion = catholic culture = "iberian" } #Barahona
province = { id = 144 religion = catholic culture = "iberian" } #Puerto Rico
province = { id = 151 religion = catholic culture = "iberian" } #Tobago & Trinidad
But I have some questions:
Why Kaffa and Jedisan becomes turkish?
Why Kerch becomes Tatar (naskapi)?
Why Perak becomes malay?
Why Taiwan becomes indian (han before)?

To which column "tax" command is referring? It seems to not be the same as "Income".

I noticed three goods changes: Transylvania, Jenne and Bure

I'm not sure but other changes may be included in countries inc files...
 
Last edited:

unmerged(29318)

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YodaMaster said:
After the move of 1419 provinces definitions in province.csv, here is the result of changes for 1520 scenario:
<CODE>
But I have some questions:
Why Kaffa and Jedisan becomes turkish?
Why Kerch becomes Tatar (naskapi)?
From EEP that have genoa event cede Kaffa and Kerch to Turk and change provsculture. for Jedisan should ask EEP team :p
Why Perak becomes malay?
Why Taiwan becomes indian (han before)?
That was historical situation there, should be the same with 1419s

To which column "tax" command is referring? It seems to not be the same as "Income".
"Tax" increase province income
"income" replace province income data in inc files

I noticed three goods changes: Transylvania, Jenne and Bure

I'm not sure but other changes may be included in countries inc files...
Should be :D
 

unmerged(40707)

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Just a "stupid" question: at start of this scenario, shouldn't HAB be the Emperor instead of SPA?
 

Toio

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Just a "stupid" question: at start of this scenario, shouldn't HAB be the Emperor instead of SPA?

wasnt it charles the fifth of Spain until mid 16th century when he abdicated
 

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Yes... but who is Karl I of Austria? ;)

Currently, we give Imperial flag to Austria but emperor = SPA in 1520_GlobalData.inc

For which country is the title the most important, in EU2 terms?
 

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unmerged(40707)

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I know! ;)

You don't answer to the last question. Wouldn't it be better to have emperor = HAB rather than emperor = SPA for this scenario?
 

Toio

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I know! ;)

You don't answer to the last question. Wouldn't it be better to have emperor = HAB rather than emperor = SPA for this scenario?

emperor = SPA and iirc ( need to check) it remain under HAB from then on
 

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There is still a problem. Should Austria get the Imperial flag then? Because of the standard use of this flag for Austria, it is confusing for players if emperor = SPA at the same time.
 

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There is still a problem. Should Austria get the Imperial flag then? Because of the standard use of this flag for Austria, it is confusing for players if emperor = SPA at the same time.

only if they are in alliance