Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

AGC+EEP What vassals are getting the boot?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Re: Re: Tags and Revolt file

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
Don't agree with much here. The NAP tag is more than adequate for the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, which (at least in English) is often referred to as Naples anyway. By the way the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies was established by Charles III in 1738. (Well actually his numbering is tricky because it depends on whether you count as King of Sicily, Naples, or of the Two Sicilies, and whether you count Charles VIII of France in 1494-1495 or not. Still he's the one who took the tittle.) Likewise, when Piedmont-Savoy "became" the Kingdom of Sardinia, it was simply so that the title of 'King' could be used. Absolutely no need for a tag change in my opinion, just use SAV.

On the other hand the period has many cases where Sicily was close to independence, seperately from Naples. The Vespers are outside the time period, but there were serious revolts in 1647 (Naples revolted at the same time), and in 1670-1679 (at which point Messina was effectively independent, and provided the army that the French fleet needed to hold off the Dutch). Sicily in 1419 had a seperate history from Naples for 150 years, and the titles were used seperately.

Of the three I think SAR is the least useful. There was a revolt in 1470, with the goal of overthrowing the Spanish nobility, but I think that's it. Certainly there was no history of an independent identity for Sardinia.

At any rate Croatia has a better claim than all three. And better than Morea too.
Click to expand...

From what I have read the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies was really in name only, it wasnt really independent? (i guess it could be considered a vassal? I do agree that Nap tag would work for that thou.
Sicily did have a seperate history, but it never did become independent in the EU2 period, so keep it or save it? only get rid of it if we need the tag for a country that did exist perhaps.
As for keeping Savoy with their old tag when they become the kingdom of Sardinia? I could see that, in order to free up a tag.

regarding AGC/EEP conflicts..do we really need a tag for the duchy of Prussia and the kingdom of Prussia? I would say drop one of them and just call it Prussia.
Also, what about some of those SEasia/Indonesian minors that were added in the EEP. Those nations seem like they barely qualify for a tag, and don't serve any purpose except to make it harder for nations to colonize there. I think some of them should be dropped.

LAte,
Jester
 
Re: Re: Re: Tags and Revolt file

Originally posted by Jester

Also, what about some of those SEasia/Indonesian minors that were added in the EEP. Those nations seem like they barely qualify for a tag, and don't serve any purpose except to make it harder for nations to colonize there. I think some of them should be dropped.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think you have that backwards as it was in the AGC setup that there were many Indonesian nations. Sun_Zi said that he'd try to work on Indonesia, so we should wait till he comes back. ~Picture of AGC SEA setup in that AGC-EEP setup thread~
 
Re: Re: Re: Tags and Revolt file

Originally posted by Jester
regarding AGC/EEP conflicts..do we really need a tag for the duchy of Prussia and the kingdom of Prussia? I would say drop one of them and just call it Prussia.
Click to expand...
I agree....i also say only 1 tag for portugal and just use the fix paradox uses.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Tags and Revolt file

Originally posted by Jinnai
I agree....i also say only 1 tag for portugal and just use the fix paradox uses.
Click to expand...

What's the Paradox fix? I hadn't heard that anything had been done about fixing Portugal. As of right now Portugal seems to be badly messed up if it doesn't get the second tag.

The Two Sicilies was just as independent as any other Italian State in the 18th century. More than most really. There is no way that it should be represented as being part of Spain.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tags and Revolt file

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
What's the Paradox fix? I hadn't heard that anything had been done about fixing Portugal. As of right now Portugal seems to be badly messed up if it doesn't get the second tag.

The Two Sicilies was just as independent as any other Italian State in the 18th century. More than most really. There is no way that it should be represented as being part of Spain.
Click to expand...
This is where paradox starts them off with a level 1 colony...because it seems the AI will usually send colonist there if they already have a level 1 colony (this was also tested by someone in EEP that said the same thing).
 
I suggest we axe and reuse much of the following. Some are already gone in either EEP or AGC as these tags are from the unmodded game. Most of these either didnt exist or didn't exist long during the game span, are not exactly what you would call a real country or have very little use game wise. Even removing some of these would provide some tags for more useful countries.


APA Navaho - Less useful Native
AQU Guyenne - gone in EEP?
AUV Auvergne - part of france
BOU Bourbonnais - part of France
BRZ Brazil - late game revoulter not much use
BUL Bulgaria - late game revoulter not much use
CAL The Kaliphate - gone in EEP
COL Colombia - late game revoulter not much use
COR Corsica - only independant a short bit
CRE Creek - less useful native
CYR Cyrenaica - gone in EEP
DAK Dakota - gone in EEP
DEL Lenape - gone in EEP
FIN Finland - late game revoulter not much use
FPR Huguenots - could be represented by events
FUC French Catholics - could be represented by events
HAI Haiti - late game revoulter not much use
IRA Iraq - late game revoulter not much use
LAP La Plata - late game revoulter not much use
MEX Mexico - late game revoulter not much use
NOG Nogai - more nomads than a real country in the timeline
ORL Orleans - part of france.
PUR Puritans - could be represented by events
QUE Quebec - late game revoulter not much use
ROY Royalists - could be represented by events
SAR Sardinia - was it independant at all in timeline?
SHA Shawnee - less useful native
SIC Sicily - only independant before the time period
XHO Xhosa - gone in EEP
ZUL Zulu - gone in eep
 
Originally posted by Azog
IRA Iraq - late game revoulter not much use
Click to expand...

I agree that some nations should be axed and believe me when I say that, that will be taken care of in due time. I don't agree about axing Iraq however, as Solmyr did some work to support an independent Iraq from 1550 onwards, and I think the tag could be useful to represent that from 1419 to 1431, Basrah was owned by the ailing Jalayrids.
 
Originally posted by Azog
CAL The Kaliphate - gone in EEP
CYR Cyrenaica - gone in EEP
DAK Dakota - gone in EEP
XHO Xhosa - gone in EEP
ZUL Zulu - gone in eep [/B]
Click to expand...
Only those...although i think French Catholics and Royalist should get better names....those aren't country names really....

Leope need only be moved off the coastline....i may be in favor of removing more IF WE ABOSULTELY NEED THEM....we shouldn't calalize them because they rarely happen...or they weren't around for long....unless its ness for some more important country and we have no spare tags.
 
Originally posted by Garbon
I don't think Portugal ever colonizes Cape Verde and I think when Daywalker brought up the problem with the Azores, it was included.
Click to expand...
No iremember that now...the Azones reminded me...said those rarely...not NEVER....get colonized so its IMO not exactly the same issue....never and hardly are vastly different.
 
As far as I know Cape Verde is NEVER colonized by the Portuguese AI.

I'll put in my usual defense for the Huguenots. I think they serve a very important game function. I also like the late game revolters and Sicily. Sardinia I think can certainly go, maybe Corsica as well.
 
Nogai should get the boot, as Azog says. Depending upon the age they were on one side of Caspian or the other, they definately controlled territory, but calling them a 'state' is even less defensible than the other Central Asian Khanates.

There was a full discussion about this in the first AGC thread for Russia, if someone wants to trowl though it.
 
To make my point clearer there I was saying these are removable if we find ourselves needing tags which we likely will not just removing them for the sake of having them gone. I really think a better set up in central america, the better set up west and east africa thats was added to EEP reciently or the better Timurids set up discussed in EEP would make for a better game than some of those listed. If someone plans a good use for these or finds them utterly needed by all means keep them in.
 
I don't understand why Haiti should be gotten rid of, in fact, it was a very important revolution that shaped Napoleon's foreign policy. Along with that, I'm all for the late game revolters in Central and South America, even though most of their independences came in 1820-1821, an early independence is certainly not ahistorical.

I would strongly resist Haiti's removal.
 
Argentina's independence was 1810. Colombia's was 1811. Mexico's was 1810.

The wars may have lasted 10 years, but those countries were independent for much more of the EUII time period than Haiti was.

I tend to think that they all serve important roles - there ought to be a risk of independent countries in the Americas.
 
APA Navaho - Less useful Native
AQU Guyenne - gone in EEP?
AUV Auvergne - part of france
BOU Bourbonnais - part of France
BRZ Brazil - late game revoulter not much use
BUL Bulgaria - late game revoulter not much use
CAL The Kaliphate - gone in EEP
COL Colombia - late game revoulter not much use
COR Corsica - only independant a short bit
CRE Creek - less useful native
CYR Cyrenaica - gone in EEP
DAK Dakota - gone in EEP
DEL Lenape - gone in EEP
FIN Finland - late game revoulter not much use
FPR Huguenots - could be represented by events
FUC French Catholics - could be represented by events
HAI Haiti - late game revoulter not much use
IRA Iraq - late game revoulter not much use
LAP La Plata - late game revoulter not much use
MEX Mexico - late game revoulter not much use
NOG Nogai - more nomads than a real country in the timeline
ORL Orleans - part of france.
PUR Puritans - could be represented by events
QUE Quebec - late game revoulter not much use
ROY Royalists - could be represented by events
SAR Sardinia - was it independant at all in timeline?
SHA Shawnee - less useful native
SIC Sicily - only independant before the time period
XHO Xhosa - gone in EEP
ZUL Zulu - gone in eep
Click to expand...

FIN: This one should not be axed, I was thinking of using it to represent John's duchy during the 1500's, also, an independent finland as a russian vassal is not at all unhistorical.

Mexico, Colombia and Brazil ought to be there... if Spain mismanaged hes her american empire it ought to have consequences.

Iraq: Is to useful a nation to axe completely.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back