AGC & EEP: The Balkans

Toio · Nov 22, 2008

IMO event should be like

country = {
tag = ATH
ai = "SmallTrade1.ai"
colonialattempts = 0
colonialnation = no
major = no
colonists = 0
cancelledloans = 0
extendedloans = 0
treasury = 100
inflation = 0
merchants = 0.083333
religion = { type = catholic }
culture = {
type = italian
type = greek
}
diplomacy = {
relation = { tag = TUR value = 50 }
relation = { tag = TOS value = 150 }
relation = { tag = BYZ value = 150 }
relation = { tag = SPR value = 175 }
relation = { tag = ALB value = 135 }
relation = { tag = VEN value = 135 }
}
knownprovinces = {
>>>>>>>>>>>

and the province of Hellas would be Greek

.................................................................
#(1453) Young Lovers
event = {
id = 117005
trigger = {
exists = TUR
}
random = NO
country = ATH
name = "EVENTNAME117005" #Young Lovers end Athens
desc = "EVENTHIST117005"
#-#Mehmet II of the Ottoman Empire intervened at the insistence of the Athenian people on the behalf of the young duke Francis and summoned Bartolommeo and Chiara to his court at Adrianople. Another Acciajuoli, Francis II, was sent to Athens as a Turkish client duke and Chiara thus deprived of her power in the city. Evidently, the citizenry had mistrusted the two lovers influence over the young duke, for whose safety they may have feared. The new duke had Chiara murdered in 1454 at Megara and Bartolomeo appealed to the sultan for justice. The sultan outraged that Francis II took measures in his own hands, decided to take Athens into Turkish hands and Francis II deposed.

date = { day = 0 month = march year = 1453 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 0 month = october year = 1458 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME117005A" #Francis rules his way
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -10 }
command = { type = add_countryculture which = greek }
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME117005B" #keep paying the turk
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 30 }
command = { type = DIP which = -1 value = 48 }
command = { type = ADM which = -1 value = 48 }
command = { type = treasury value = -100 } #tribute
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = add_countryculture which = greek }
}
}

...............................................

for the ahistorical path

#(1435) Chalkokondylos Dynasty - Ahistorical
event = {
id = 117002 #triggered by TUR_301071 B
random = no
country = ATH
name = "EVENTNAME117002" #Chalkokondylos Dynasty (1435-1511)
desc = "EVENTHIST117002"
#-#Owing to the machinations of Maria Melissene, the Arkhon Georgios Chalkokondylos became the new Duke of Athens. Father to the scholars Demetrios and Laonikos, they continued cultural revival of their predecessor but relations with the West floundered - in particular with the Florentines and Venetians whose influence was reduced.

action_a = {
name = "OK"
command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 014501 } #Nerio II
command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 014502 } #Antonio II
command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 014503 } #Nerio II
command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 014504 } #Francesco I
command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 014505 } #Francesco II
command = { type = wakemonarch which = 014506 } #Georgios *
command = { type = wakemonarch which = 014507 } #Nikolaos *
command = { type = wakemonarch which = 014508 } #Theophilos *
command = { type = wakemonarch which = 014509 } #Demetrios *
command = { type = add_countryculture which = greek }
command = { type = remove_countryculture which = italian }
command = { type = religion which = orthodox }
command = { type = relation which = TOS value = -75 }
command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -75 }
command = { type = relation which = SPR value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = BYZ value = -50 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 117003 } #ATH: Era of Turbulence
command = { type = sleepevent which = 117004 } #ATH: Duchess of Athens
}
}

..............................................

in regards to cyprus

#(1434) Marriage of Jean II
#revised by Aylo1
event = {
id = 154004
random = no
country = CYP
name = "EVENTNAME154004" #The Marriage of Jean II
desc = "EVENTHIST154004"
#-#As the last Kings of Jerusalem, the Lusignans were great defenders of the Catholic faith, often in collusion with their Greek subjects. The decision of Jean II to marry Helen Paléologue, daughter of Theodore II of Morea, and granddaughter of the Basileos Rhomaion Manuel II (Emperor of Byzantium) was unprecedented and well received by the Cypriot-Greeks. Through her patronage, local Greek culture flourished and royal power was strengthened. Her actions naturally alarmed the Catholic Franks but they couldn't depose her without upsetting the Cypriot-Greeks who revered her as a heroine.

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1434 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME154004A" #Best wishes to the royal couple
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = revoltrisk which = 24 value = -2 }
command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 }
command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -2 }
command = { type = relation which = SPR value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = KNI value = -25 } #Catholic states
command = { type = relation which = NAP value = -25 }
command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -25 }
command = { type = relation which = GEN value = -25 }
command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -25 }
command = { type = add_countryculture which = greek }
}
}

country = {
tag = CYP
ai = "SmallTrade1.ai"
colonialattempts = 0
colonialnation = no
major = no
colonists = 0
cancelledloans = 0
extendedloans = 0
treasury = 100
inflation = 0
merchants = 6.083333
religion = { type = catholic }
culture = { type = greek french }
diplomacy = { }
knownprovinces = {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

cyprus province will remain greek

unmerged(40707) · Nov 22, 2008

But what if OE disappears? Athens will never get the Greek culture.

IMHO, better have a new event related to Nerio II that will use the sentence quoted by Tunch Khan.

About Cyprus, couldn't French culture be lost at some point? Maybe with CYP_154017 "The death of Jacques III, last of the Lusignan"?
And a final change with the consequence of CYP_154021 "The future of Cyprus rests on our hands". All involved events have the right add_countryculture commands if Greek culture is added before.

Toio · Nov 22, 2008

YodaMaster said:
But what if OE disappears? Athens will never get the Greek culture.

veryhighly unlikely, but ...........anyway what do you suggest?

IMHO, better have a new event related to Nerio II that will use the sentence quoted by Tunch Khan.

which sentence and which is the start year.?

About Cyprus, couldn't French culture be lost at some point? Maybe with CYP_154017 "The death of Jacques III, last of the Lusignan"?
And a final change with the consequence of CYP_154021 "The future of Cyprus rests on our hands". All involved events have the right add_countryculture commands if Greek culture is added before.

regards event 154017, i agree

#(1474) The death of the last Lusignan
event = {
id = 154017
random = no
country = CYP
name = "EVENTNAME154017" #The death of Jacques III, last of the Lusignan
desc = "EVENTHIST154017"
#-#The tragedy has not finished for young Caterina Cornaro. At 20 years of age she has seen too many people die, but now it is her son, the King Jacques III Lusignan who dies while she was preparing his first birthday party. With him, the Lusignan dinasty becomes extinct. It also means the last of the Frankish Kingdoms in Levant and the end of a dream built over blood. By virtue of having named her -Daughter of St. Mark-, Venice becomes the heir of the Kingdom of Cyprus, but only if she does not re-marry or have any children. Her destiny has also been sealed. Her life will be spared, but her freedom has disappeared. She will always be watched and controlled. Perhaps due to her tragedy, Caterina wins the love of her Greek subjects, that for the first time support a Latin ruler.

date = { day = 6 month = july year = 1474 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME154017A" #It is all very sad
command = { type = relation which = VEN value = 50 }
command = { type = ADM which = -2 value = 12 }
command = { type = remove_countryculture which = french }
}
}

so you ar saying that event 154021, in options A,B,C and D should all have add_culture Greek ?

further, the random events in this file, ie 154025 to 154028 should have options A and B reversed as per the text

unmerged(40707) · Nov 22, 2008

Toio said:
which sentence and which is the start year.?

Check Nerio II in monarchs.ath. An event could be created between 1435 and 1451 if Nerio II is the ruler (two possible ids and because Duchy of Athens is a possible revolter until 1450). Maybe we could add another little effect because nothing will happen if Athens revolted (of course it can't be the case if a player is involved).

Sentence is in post #660:
Nerio II Acciaioli (1416 – 1451) was the Duke of Athens on two separate occasions from 1435 to 1439 and again from 1441 to 1451. He was a member of the Acciaioli family of Florence, the son of Francesco Acciaioli, Lord of Sykaminon. His rule was contemporaneous with a renewed Italian philhellenism and corresponding interest in antiquities and the Greek language. Nerio not only spoke Greek naturally, but also owned the most famous monuments of the Hellenic world in his capital of Athens.

Toio said:
so you ar saying that event 154021, in options A,B,C and D should all have add_culture Greek ?

No, Greek culture will be added with your proposal in post #661 (or will already be the result of a revolting Cyprus). This is what I meant with "before".

Toio said:
further, the random events in this file, ie 154025 to 154028 should have options A and B reversed as per the text

Why? We don't want AI to make such choice, do we? All these events are ahistorical, aren't they?

Toio · Nov 22, 2008

YodaMaster said:
Check Nerio II in monarchs.ath. An event could be created between 1435 and 1451 if Nerio II is the ruler (two possible ids and because Duchy of Athens is a possible revolter until 1450). Maybe we could add another little effect because nothing will happen if Athens revolted (of course it can't be the case if a player is involved).

Sentence is in post #660:
Nerio II Acciaioli (1416 – 1451) was the Duke of Athens on two separate occasions from 1435 to 1439 and again from 1441 to 1451. He was a member of the Acciaioli family of Florence, the son of Francesco Acciaioli, Lord of Sykaminon. His rule was contemporaneous with a renewed Italian philhellenism and corresponding interest in antiquities and the Greek language. Nerio not only spoke Greek naturally, but also owned the most famous monuments of the Hellenic world in his capital of Athens.

Click to expand...

reading historical info, Nerio II did not get support from the Greek populace until 1444 when he fought against the TUR, but before (1435) he was placed/supported on the throne of Athens by the TUR, against the desires of the greek populace which wanted Constantine of Morea to be their lord

Why? We don't want AI to make such choice, do we? All these events are ahistorical, aren't they?

Click to expand...

since they are ahistorical and we want TUR to gain cyprus , plus to "right the ship", then we need to make these changes

unmerged(40707) · Nov 22, 2008

Toio said:
reading historical info, Nerio II did not get support from the Greek populace until 1444 when he fought against the TUR, but before (1435) he was placed/supported on the throne of Athens by the TUR, against the desires of the greek populace which wanted Constantine of Morea to be their lord

After 1444 then.

Toio said:
since they are ahistorical and we want TUR to gain cyprus , plus to "right the ship", then we need to make these changes

We just want to see Venice inheriting before.

Toio · Nov 24, 2008

YodaMaster said:
After 1444 then.

We just want to see Venice inheriting before.

what about this

#(1444) Greek subjects
event = {
id = 117006
trigger = {
exists = TUR
}
random = NO
country = ATH
name = "EVENTNAME117006" #Gain the Greeks
desc = "EVENTHIST117006"
#-#In 1444, Nerio went to war against the Turks on the side of Constantine of Morea, with this war, Nerio finally received the support of his Greek subjects.

date = { day = 0 month = may year = 1444 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 0 month = october year = 1457 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME117006A" #Greek support
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
command = { type = add_countryculture which = greek }
}
}

Tunch Khan · Nov 24, 2008

Toio said:
what about this

#(1444) Greek subjects
event = {
id = 117006
trigger = {
exists = TUR
}
random = NO
country = ATH
name = "EVENTNAME117006" #Gain the Greeks
desc = "EVENTHIST117006"
#-#In 1444, Nerio went to war against the Turks on the side of Constantine of Morea, with this war, Nerio finally received the support of his Greek subjects.

date = { day = 0 month = may year = 1444 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 0 month = october year = 1457 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME117006A" #Greek support
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
command = { type = add_countryculture which = greek }
}
}

Would the Orthodox Greeks actually prefer the religiously tolerant Ottomans or Catholic Italians who tax and occasionally persecute Orthodox clergy? I don't think there is a pan Hellenic union against oppressing Turks as early as 15th Century.

Toio · Nov 24, 2008

Tunch Khan said:
Would the Orthodox Greeks actually prefer the religiously tolerant Ottomans or Catholic Italians who tax and occasionally persecute Orthodox clergy? I don't think there is a pan Hellenic union against oppressing Turks as early as 15th Century.

there is nothing religious in this event, the -100 represents the war against the TUR , plus in all games, the relations at the time in question is always around +175. I am basically using -100 in a dual role.

There is no proof about religious tolerance, If there was an issue then the Greek orthodox church ( and still in use) built in Venice in the 15th century would never have been built.

Tunch Khan · Nov 24, 2008

Toio said:
there is nothing religious in this event, the -100 represents the war against the TUR , plus in all games, the relations at the time in question is always around +175. I am basically using -100 in a dual role.

There is no proof about religious tolerance, If there was an issue then the Greek orthodox church ( and still in use) built in Venice in the 15th century would never have been built.

Why would a war against Ottomans have Greek peasants rally behind their Latin overlords then?

Secondly, Venice had an Ottoman Palace with their own imam at the same period. This has nothing to do with Fiorentine tolerance to Athenian Greek Orthodox. It has to do with Venice luring rich merchants from Byzantine Empire. Constantinople too had Venetian and Genoese quarters as well as a Turkish quarter, all with religious facilities. It was a common practice established by bilateral treaties and trade agreements.

Had there been any tolerance toward Greeks, they would be allowed inside the administrative quarters of Athens centered around the Parthenon. Parthenon was of course converted into a Catholic Cathedral by that time and no Greek Orthodox was allowed in the area. Privileges of the Orthodox clergy has been revoked during Fiorentine period and the lands that belonged to Greek Orthodox Church had been confiscated and their clergy was demoted to serf status in order to be taxed.

Canenald · Nov 25, 2008

I think Florentine Athens should be given Greek culture only and only if they manage to convert their Greek province(s) to Catholic religion. Otherwise, Hellas, and any other Greek province owned by Athens, would very quickly become ahistorically Catholic. I propose a trigger like this:

Code:

trigger = {
	OR = {
		religion = catholic
		religion = counterreform
	}
	provincereligion = { province = 359 data = catholic } #Hellas
	OR = { #Morea, Catholic if owned
		NOT = { owned = { province = 360 data = -1 } }
		AND = {
			owned = { province = 360 data = -1 }
			provincereligion = { province = 360 data = catholic }
		}
	}
	OR = { #Morea, Catholic if owned
		NOT = { owned = { province = 360 data = -1 } }
		AND = {
			owned = { province = 360 data = -1 }
			provincereligion = { province = 360 data = catholic }
		}
	}
	OR = { #Macedonia, Catholic if owned
		NOT = { owned = { province = 358 data = -1 } }
		AND = {
			owned = { province = 358 data = -1 }
			provincereligion = { province = 358 data = catholic }
			NOT = { event = 301091 } #TUR: Consequences of the Conquest of Constantinople -I- (converts Macedonia to Turkish culture)
		}
	}
	OR = { #Ionia, Catholic if owned
		NOT = { owned = { province = 479 data = -1 } }
		AND = {
			owned = { province = 479 data = -1 }
			provincereligion = { province = 479 data = catholic }
		}
	}
	OR = { #Corfu, Catholic if owned
		NOT = { owned = { province = 820 data = -1 } }
		AND = {
			owned = { province = 820 data = -1 }
			provincereligion = { province = 820 data = catholic }
		}
	}
	OR = { #Crete, Catholic if owned
		NOT = { owned = { province = 480 data = -1 } }
		AND = {
			owned = { province = 480 data = -1 }
			provincereligion = { province = 480 data = catholic }
		}
	}
	OR = { #Cyprus, Catholic if owned
		NOT = { owned = { province = 484 data = -1 } }
		AND = {
			owned = { province = 484 data = -1 }
			provincereligion = { province = 484 data = catholic }
		}
	}
	OR = { #Rhodes, Catholic if owned
		NOT = { owned = { province = 481 data = -1 } }
		AND = {
			owned = { province = 481 data = -1 }
			provincereligion = { province = 481 data = catholic }
		}
	}
	OR = { #Thrace, Greek and Catholic if owned
		NOT = { owned = { province = 481 data = -1 } }
		AND = {
			owned = { province = 481 data = -1 }
			provincereligion = { province = 481 data = catholic }
			NOT = { event = 301091 } #TUR: Consequences of the Conquest of Constantinople -I- (fires if TUR_3353A converted Thrace to Turkish culture)
		}
	}
}

A trigger like this would require the Florentine Athens to first convert all Greek provinces it owns (most likely only Hellas) to Catholic religion, which will be difficult if they don't have Greek as national culture.

Canenald · Nov 25, 2008

Another problem with Duchy of Athens is that it never breaks vassalage to Ottomans, which makes Ottomans take a -3 stability hit if they want to annex it. This would make sense:

Code:

#(1453) Young Lovers
event = {
	id = 117005
	trigger = {
		exists = TUR
	}
	random = NO
	country = ATH
	name = "EVENTNAME117005" #Young Lovers end Athens
	desc = "EVENTHIST117005"

	date = { day = 0 month = march year = 1453 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 0 month = october year = 1458 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME117005A" #Francis rules his way
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = breakvassal which = TUR }
		command = { type = war which = TUR }[/COLOR]
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -10 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME117005B" #keep paying the turk
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 30 }
		command = { type = DIP which = -1 value = 48 }
		command = { type = ADM which = -1 value = 48 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -100 } #tribute
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
	}
}

#-#Mehmet II of the Ottoman Empire intervened at the insistence of the Athenian people on the behalf of the young duke Francis and summoned Bartolommeo and Chiara to his court at Adrianople. Another Acciajuoli, Francis II, was sent to Athens as a Turkish client duke and Chiara thus deprived of her power in the city. Evidently, the citizenry had mistrusted the two lovers influence over the young duke, for whose safety they may have feared. The new duke had Chiara murdered in 1454 at Megara and Bartolomeo appealed to the sultan for justice. The sultan outraged that Francis II took measures in his own hands, decided to take Athens into Turkish hands and Francis II deposed.

Canenald · Nov 25, 2008

All Wallachian events when Wallachia submits to the Ottomans has a version when Wallachia is vassal of Moldavia, except for Contested Throne event of 1466. Here's a quick fix:

Code:

#(1466) Contested Throne -II-
event = {
	id = 329012
	trigger = {
		NOT = { vassal = { country = HUN country = WAL } }
	}
	random = no
	country = WAL
	name = "EVENTNAME19005" #Contested Throne
	desc = "EVENTHIST19005"

	date = { day = 5 month = april year = 1466 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME19005A" #Support Radu
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = breakvassal which = MOL }[/COLOR]
		command = { type = wakeleader which = 0165803 } #Radu cel Frumas (WAL)
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = HAB value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = MOL value = -100 }
		command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = -3 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 19005 } #WAL: Contested Throne -I-
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME19005B" #Support Dracula
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 0165541 } #Vlad III Tepes
		command = { type = wakeleader which = 0165804 } #Vlad III Tepes (WAL)
		command = { type = dynastic which = HUN }
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = HAB value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = MOL value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -100 }
		command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = QUALITY value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 19006 } #TUR: Vassalage of Wallachia
		command = { type = trigger which = 301076 } #TUR: Contested Throne
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 19005 } #WAL: Contested Throne -I-
	}
}

#-#In 1462, under pressure from Turkish incursions, Dracula sought the help of the throne of Hungary. Meanwhile, the Turkish sultan gave Dracula's younger brother, Radu, an army with which to support his claim to the throne. In addition, the boyars, rose up against Dracula due to his well-known cruelty and the suppression of their rights. Matthias Corvinus, King of Hungary, realizing Dracula's precarious position, and wary of his volatility and devious nature, treacherously took Dracula to Hungary as a political prisoner, while Radu was left free to reign in Wallachia. Now, in 1466, Dracula has converted to catholicism and married into the Hungarian royal family. The state is divided between the cruel, yet heroic anti-Turkish Dracula, and the pro-Turkish Radu.

Canenald · Nov 25, 2008

Regarding my post #672, I only now noticed that it is just a reversal of Toio's submission in post #601, which doesn't really solve both problems. Maybe it would be a good solution to have this event break the vassalage like before, but also make Athens declare war on Turkey? Even better, it could trigger an event for Ottomans where they could choose to DoW as choice a or to let them be as choice b.

Toio · Nov 25, 2008

Lord Grave said:
Regarding my post #672, I only now noticed that it is just a reversal of Toio's submission in post #601, which doesn't really solve both problems. Maybe it would be a good solution to have this event break the vassalage like before, but also make Athens declare war on Turkey? Even better, it could trigger an event for Ottomans where they could choose to DoW as choice a or to let them be as choice b.

as you noticed , i originally had the breakvassal command in the young lovers event, it works fine if TUR is not at war with anyone, if they are at war then by the time the TUR DOW athens, athens would be in a very strong alliance, with either, ARG, VEN, NAP, PAP etc etc. I tried to avoid this by keeping ATH under vassalage of the TUR

Toio · Nov 25, 2008

Tunch Khan said:
Why would a war against Ottomans have Greek peasants rally behind their Latin overlords then?

Secondly, Venice had an Ottoman Palace with their own imam at the same period. This has nothing to do with Fiorentine tolerance to Athenian Greek Orthodox. It has to do with Venice luring rich merchants from Byzantine Empire. Constantinople too had Venetian and Genoese quarters as well as a Turkish quarter, all with religious facilities. It was a common practice established by bilateral treaties and trade agreements.

Had there been any tolerance toward Greeks, they would be allowed inside the administrative quarters of Athens centered around the Parthenon. Parthenon was of course converted into a Catholic Cathedral by that time and no Greek Orthodox was allowed in the area. Privileges of the Orthodox clergy has been revoked during Fiorentine period and the lands that belonged to Greek Orthodox Church had been confiscated and their clergy was demoted to serf status in order to be taxed.

the direction by modders was, when will ATH get Greek culture ?
If you do not like the text, then replace it, if you do not want ATH to get Greek culture, then discuss it. I actually think maybe they should never get it, especially since Nerio II build the "frankish tower" right in front of the acropolis, basically a slap in the face for the greeks.

religious tolerance is a farce by every one, did the TUR let the christian build a church in the ottoman lands, No, did the TUR cover up the church of Sophia in istanbul and make it a moslem church even with greek citizens in istanbul. Tolerance and support for a ruler came from the nobles and merchants as usual the peasant populace suffered in every state.

Canenald · Nov 26, 2008

Toio said:
as you noticed , i originally had the breakvassal command in the young lovers event, it works fine if TUR is not at war with anyone, if they are at war then by the time the TUR DOW athens, athens would be in a very strong alliance, with either, ARG, VEN, NAP, PAP etc etc. I tried to avoid this by keeping ATH under vassalage of the TUR

I realized that from your original post but removing the breakvassal command causes a different problem which I already described. Ottoman Empire already has a problem with stabilitiy and revolts because of high badboy value and a large number of provinces with different cultures and religions. I don't think they should pay 3 stability in order to DoW a vassal which historically rebelled against them.

I have edited my previous post to include a war command against Ottomans. Do you think this is acceptable? I don't think Athens is a great threat to the Ottomans event if they are already at war with some other country. If this proves to be wrong after testing, we can always make this event triggered by an Ottoman event that would have "atwar = no" trigger.

Canenald · Nov 26, 2008

Toio said:
the direction by modders was, when will ATH get Greek culture ?
If you do not like the text, then replace it, if you do not want ATH to get Greek culture, then discuss it. I actually think maybe they should never get it, especially since Nerio II build the "frankish tower" right in front of the acropolis, basically a slap in the face for the greeks.

religious tolerance is a farce by every one, did the TUR let the christian build a church in the ottoman lands, No, did the TUR cover up the church of Sophia in istanbul and make it a moslem church even with greek citizens in istanbul. Tolerance and support for a ruler came from the nobles and merchants as usual the peasant populace suffered in every state.

I think it makes a lot of sense for Athens to get Greek culture if they convert their Greek province(s) to Catholicism. What's wrong with that?

On the other hand, I think other countries similar to Athens need to be checked for this sort of problem. For example, I don't know if Cyprus starts as Catholic, but I noticed it is Catholic in most of my games even before it is annexed by Venice, and country of Cyprus has only Greek culture. In my opinion. Cyprus country should start with French culture and also gain Greek if they somehow manage to convert Cyprus to Catholic. I don't remember reading anywhere that Lusignans managed convert Cyprus to Catholic faith.

I also think something should be done about numerous conversions of Greek provinces owned by Venice. Maybe Venice should start with more Innovativeness in order to have less missionaries? After all, Venice was extremely innovative for that age.

Toio · Nov 26, 2008

Lord Grave said:
I realized that from your original post but removing the breakvassal command causes a different problem which I already described. Ottoman Empire already has a problem with stabilitiy and revolts because of high badboy value and a large number of provinces with different cultures and religions. I don't think they should pay 3 stability in order to DoW a vassal which historically rebelled against them.

I have edited my previous post to include a war command against Ottomans. Do you think this is acceptable? I don't think Athens is a great threat to the Ottomans event if they are already at war with some other country. If this proves to be wrong after testing, we can always make this event triggered by an Ottoman event that would have "atwar = no" trigger.

I have already tried to introduce your changes before and was denied, I will not stop the reintroduction of the breakvassal command.
But what about a new TUR event when this event fires that gives TUR a +3 in stab ?

Toio · Nov 26, 2008

Lord Grave said:
I think it makes a lot of sense for Athens to get Greek culture if they convert their Greek province(s) to Catholicism. What's wrong with that?

On the other hand, I think other countries similar to Athens need to be checked for this sort of problem. For example, I don't know if Cyprus starts as Catholic, but I noticed it is Catholic in most of my games even before it is annexed by Venice, and country of Cyprus has only Greek culture. In my opinion. Cyprus country should start with French culture and also gain Greek if they somehow manage to convert Cyprus to Catholic. I don't remember reading anywhere that Lusignans managed convert Cyprus to Catholic faith.

of the 3 frankish/florentine kigdoms, ATH, KNI and cyprus, only KNI is done correctly.

I also think something should be done about numerous conversions of Greek provinces owned by Venice. Maybe Venice should start with more Innovativeness in order to have less missionaries? After all, Venice was extremely innovative for that age.

Does it really matter??, Venice had plenty of tolerance for orthodox religion, which is why there is a greek orthodox church built in 15th century also the greek nobles ( under venice) selected their orthodox priests every 2 years. The conversation is just basically the same as an acceptance by Venice

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