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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
Jan 9, 2005
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YodaMaster said:
Check existing events for Ukraine too.
Yeah, I had a flick through the relevant events for POL, RUS & UKR and updated the 1718 thread - have a look when you have five minutes.

Should work pretty well. :)
 

De-VILLARS

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Code:
#(1571-1578) [COLOR="Red"]The Sacking of Moscow[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]Abolition of Oprichnina[/COLOR]
event = {
	id = 40027
[COLOR="Yellow"]	trigger = {
		event = 40026 #RUS : The Terror of the Oprichnina
	}[/COLOR]
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME40027" #[COLOR="Red"]Sacking of Moscow and [/COLOR]Abolition of Oprichnina
	desc = "EVENTHIST3411"
	[COLOR="Red"]trigger = { event = 40026 }[/COLOR]

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1571 }
	offset = 130
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1578 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME40027A" #Abolish the Oprichnina
		command = { type = relation which = CRI value = -100 }
		command = { type = casusbelli which = CRI value = 60 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 1 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME40027B" #Oprichnina is not at fault!
		command = { type = relation which = CRI value = -100 }
		command = { type = casusbelli which = CRI value = 60 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
	}
}

I propose to move the trigger to the right place and to add a condition : Moscow shouldn't be controled by Russia
 
Last edited:

unmerged(40707)

Just call me Yoda in private!
Mar 1, 2005
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Moscow shouldn't be controled by Russia
And province should be owned (capital could have been relocated because of revolter).

EDIT: but I'm not sure control of the province is really mandatory in order to avoid the event that is about the end of the Oprichnina too. After all, it could be only a raid and the sacking of the city doesn't represent the control of the whole province. Moreover, action_b of RUS_40026 is sufficient in order to avoid this event.
In this case, ownership of Tula is not important and the name of the event could be simply "Abolition of Oprichnina" instead of "Sacking of Moscow and Abolition of Oprichnina" (but the sacking of Moscow will still appear in the description of the event as an historical fact). For the event, existence of Crimea (CRI) as a country is not even mandatory. Any thought?

Btw, RUS_40026 should be marked as already happened at the beginning of the 1520 scenario.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(96046)

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Apr 2, 2008
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After reading some events for Russia (for colonizing the Steppes) and England (Acts of Union), I would like to make a proposal: I think that the tax/manpower/revoltrisk penalties for Russia for the Karelia region (Kola, Karelia, Kexholm, Olonets, Arkhangelsk) should be removed by one means or another.

The Karelia region, save for the Western Karelia which was a province of Finland, was ruled by Novgorod since the Swedish-Novgorodian wars in the 13th century, and later by Muscovy which became Russia. The Karelians were Orthodox Christians for a long time, and were influenced by Russian culture since Novgorodian times. The cultural influence of Russia only continued to intensify as time went on. When Sweden conquered part of Karelia in the 17th century and wanted to convert them to Lutheranism, people fled en masse to Russia.

A secondary fact is Russian colonization in the region which was begun by Novgorod in the 13th century and continued during tsarist Russia. I don't know when Russians became the predominant ethnic group, but today at least Karelia is 60-70% Russian.

At any case, I think it doesn't make much sense for Russia to suffer penalties in Karelia.

If you agree with me, then I see three ways of dealing with this minor inconvenience:

1. Give Russia Ugric culture with the Russian Nation event. The problem with this approach is that it overpowers Russia by making it easy to convert Finland, and it also defeats the purpose of playing Novgorod which has Ugric culture from the start.

2. Make Kola, Karelia, Kexholm, Olonets, and Arkhangelsk Russian from the start. Problem with this solution is that it makes it less attractive for a Swedish or Livonian player to attack Novgorod for Ugric provinces. This could be rectified however by giving Sweden/Livonia events that convert those provinces to Ugric culture.

3. Leave initial setup as it is and give Russia (but not Muscovy) events that convert these provinces to Russian culture. This solution would probably be the most accurate, since it represents Russian settlement in the region-as I've mentioned before Russians continually colonized the region, and with time Karelia became predominantly Russian, though I'm not sure when exactly that happened.

I await your input on the subject and I'm ready to write any required events. I am having a boring vacation to say the least.
 

unmerged(40707)

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Mar 1, 2005
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Only real problem is for Kexholm and Olonets that are already cities from start. All others should become Russian if colonized by Muscovy/Russia and other AI countries in the area won't colonize until late.

We give Russia events for settlements in Tatar and Mongol areas because it is simply impossible to change the culture without them. Option 3 seems to be the best if accurate.

Btw, Ingermanland will switch from Ugric to Russian culture with the capital move event RUS_3424 (1701-1724).
 

unmerged(96046)

Second Lieutenant
Apr 2, 2008
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I will wait a few days to see if anyone else has any objections/suggestions and I will then proceed to produce the events.

Should I make them for Olonets and Kexholm only, to limit the number of events, or should I also make similar events for Kola, Karelia, Arkhangelsk, and Vladimir? After all, there's always a chance that a Golden Horde/Sweden/Denmark, human or AI will capture these areas early on and later change the culture, before Russia gets the chance to take back these prov-s.

I agree about Ingermanland it's a different culture anyways (Ingrian) and doesn't deserve to be converted early on. Russian capital event is about the right time for that.

Also, Sweden should have similar events to convert these provinces back to Ugric (if they are state religion), albeit with a much larger offset. If Russia recaptures these provinces, they should convert them back to Russian again. Thus, Russia should have two events for each province.

The way I see this play out is this:

1. Novgorod starts out with these provinces Ugric.

2. Muscovy conquers Novgorod and becomes Russia.

3. Within couple of decades Russia makes all these provinces Russian (except Ingermanland).

4. Sweden conquers Kexholm (1617 IRL), but only converts it to Ugric after many decades, or not at all.

5. Russia retakes Kexholm (1721) and converts it back to Russian.

This would work like in real life, Sweden tried to convert Kexholm, but they couldn't. In game terms that's like sending a missionary to a wrong-culture province.

Also, the potential revolter state Finland should have events to convert these provinces to Ugric quickly. Karelians and Finns are very similar ethnically.

The only other state that has anything to do with Ugric is Livonian Order, but they don't deserve to have any events.
 

unmerged(40707)

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Mar 1, 2005
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Yes, better wait for other comments. Be aware provinceculture condition doesn't work in events.
 

Heimdall

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1. Give Russia Ugric culture with the Russian Nation event. The problem with this approach is that it overpowers Russia by making it easy to convert Finland, and it also defeats the purpose of playing Novgorod which has Ugric culture from the start.

I can't say I like the idea. Yes, Russia ruled over some of those 'Ugric' provinces apparently without little or no problems, but as you say this has the (unpreferable) side effect of making it easy to convert Finland.

2. Make Kola, Karelia, Kexholm, Olonets, and Arkhangelsk Russian from the start. Problem with this solution is that it makes it less attractive for a Swedish or Livonian player to attack Novgorod for Ugric provinces. This could be rectified however by giving Sweden/Livonia events that convert those provinces to Ugric culture.

Those provinces never were Russian during this time frame. See below.

3. Leave initial setup as it is and give Russia (but not Muscovy) events that convert these provinces to Russian culture. This solution would probably be the most accurate, since it represents Russian settlement in the region-as I've mentioned before Russians continually colonized the region, and with time Karelia became predominantly Russian, though I'm not sure when exactly that happened.

This happened during the last 100 years. That is - not during the time period that EU2 is played. (not sure about the Archangelsk region though, but definately the other.)

I await your input on the subject and I'm ready to write any required events. I am having a boring vacation to say the least.
 

unmerged(96046)

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Apr 2, 2008
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This happened during the last 100 years.

Thanks, I didn't know that. Still, the primary reason I would like to see these areas Russian is to get rid of the penalties for wrong culture. Judging by other events in AGCEEP, 'culture' represents not only culture but also way of governing, integration of people into administration of the country. Scotland is changed to Anglosaxon, even though it never was Anglosaxon by majority. Transylvania was predominantly orthodox Romanian by population, yet it's treated as Catholc Magyar for a good reason. The best thing that could be done is to create a cultural group called 'Karelian' and give it as accepted for Russia. Yet, using a culture tag just for that would hardly be justified. Hence, the best thing to do is to have them convert to Russian by event.
 

Toio

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After reading some events for Russia (for colonizing the Steppes) and England (Acts of Union), I would like to make a proposal: I think that the tax/manpower/revoltrisk penalties for Russia for the Karelia region (Kola, Karelia, Kexholm, Olonets, Arkhangelsk) should be removed by one means or another.

The Karelia region, save for the Western Karelia which was a province of Finland, was ruled by Novgorod since the Swedish-Novgorodian wars in the 13th century, and later by Muscovy which became Russia. The Karelians were Orthodox Christians for a long time, and were influenced by Russian culture since Novgorodian times. The cultural influence of Russia only continued to intensify as time went on. When Sweden conquered part of Karelia in the 17th century and wanted to convert them to Lutheranism, people fled en masse to Russia.

A secondary fact is Russian colonization in the region which was begun by Novgorod in the 13th century and continued during tsarist Russia. I don't know when Russians became the predominant ethnic group, but today at least Karelia is 60-70% Russian.

At any case, I think it doesn't make much sense for Russia to suffer penalties in Karelia.

If you agree with me, then I see three ways of dealing with this minor inconvenience:

1. Give Russia Ugric culture with the Russian Nation event. The problem with this approach is that it overpowers Russia by making it easy to convert Finland, and it also defeats the purpose of playing Novgorod which has Ugric culture from the start.

2. Make Kola, Karelia, Kexholm, Olonets, and Arkhangelsk Russian from the start. Problem with this solution is that it makes it less attractive for a Swedish or Livonian player to attack Novgorod for Ugric provinces. This could be rectified however by giving Sweden/Livonia events that convert those provinces to Ugric culture.

3. Leave initial setup as it is and give Russia (but not Muscovy) events that convert these provinces to Russian culture. This solution would probably be the most accurate, since it represents Russian settlement in the region-as I've mentioned before Russians continually colonized the region, and with time Karelia became predominantly Russian, though I'm not sure when exactly that happened.

I await your input on the subject and I'm ready to write any required events. I am having a boring vacation to say the least.

i prefer number 3..........but what year or what trigger is the conversion ?

- will making karelia, baltic culture ( not accurate) fix these errors so as to not waste a tag on a new culture?

- Whats with Ugric culture????..........i think its one step to low in the culture tree.........ie, its equal to having Latin or Romance as a culture. Ugric should be renamed to Finnish or Finnic , as stated in all net reference. With Finnish, Karelians where very very close linguistically with the finns, while Ugric also belongs with the hungarians.

- Karelains and Finns used the Latin alphabet , while the russians use cyrillic. Did they live in harmony?
 

unmerged(96046)

Second Lieutenant
Apr 2, 2008
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i prefer number 3..........but what year or what trigger is the conversion ?

I see it as something like this:
- year is 1520,
- ownership of Novgorod,
- province has to be Orthodox first,
- the spread has to be continuous, ie. Olonets has to change before Karelia, etc.

- will making karelia, baltic culture ( not accurate) fix these errors so as to not waste a tag on a new culture?

Interesting idea, though I think it would look somewhat silly. You would have to give baltic as accepted for Russia, and then they would be accepting towards Lithuania which is also baltic. I think it would be a little ludicrous to distinguish between Karelian and Finnish when Germany, France and Italy are all one culture. The only real error now is Russia getting penalties in the area, and also Sweden being able to convert these areas easily.

Btw, I saw Ukrainian as a culture in text.csv, any reason it isn't used?

- Whats with Ugric culture????..........i think its one step to low in the culture tree.........ie, its equal to having Latin or Romance as a culture. Ugric should be renamed to Finnish or Finnic , as stated in all net reference. With Finnish, Karelians where very very close linguistically with the finns, while Ugric also belongs with the hungarians.

The EU2 "Ugric" is really Finno-Ugric, a language group. Having Ugric as accepted implies, as you say acceptance towards Hungarians and a whole bunch of other people. Sweden only accepted Finnish, not Finno-Ugric.

Currently, Ugric in EU2 covers the following cultures:
- Finnish,
- Sami,
- Karelian,
- Ingrian,
- Estonian,
- Nenets (Arkhangelsk).

As far as I know all of these people speak a Finnic language (a subset of Finno-Ugric), save for the Nenets. So yeah, I'd also suggest renaming 'Ugric' to 'Finnic'. 'Finnish' refers to Finns mostly.

EDIT: I've noticed that Livonia is also Ugric. This represents Livonians who are also Finnic. By EU2 timeline though Latvians (Baltic) might have become the dominant culture in that province. Maybe Livonia ought to be changed to Baltic. I'll look into that.

- Karelains and Finns used the Latin alphabet , while the russians use cyrillic. Did they live in harmony?

Yes, they did. They were ruled by by Novgorodians since the 13th century and were orthodox Christian. They were accepted in Russian society and lived alongside Russians. Novgorod and Russia should be accepting towards them, but not other Russian principalities, as they never ruled over them.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(40707)

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Mar 1, 2005
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No problem for Finnic since it is more accurate. Livonia is indeed to be checked then.

This discussion is tied to ahistorical development of Denmark or Norway since Sweden gets the Ugric/Finnic culture from start.
 
Jan 9, 2005
8.858
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I think Ukrainian is used. I'm pretty sure it's in the 1718 scenario betas anyway - let me get back to you on that. For now, though, do not replace it.
 

unmerged(40707)

Just call me Yoda in private!
Mar 1, 2005
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Yes, I didn't comment it. Mandead is right, the four Ukrainian province have an event for the rise of nationalism and culture change from ruthenian to ukrainian.
 
Jan 9, 2005
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No problem with ugric > finnic, btw.
 

unmerged(96046)

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Apr 2, 2008
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Be aware provinceculture condition doesn't work in events.

Actually 'provinceculture = x' seems to work, it's the 'NOT = { provinceculture = x }' that doesn't work, and which is what I wanted to use. I left the commands to show what I wanted to do.

Allright, here are the events for Russia. I changed the startdate to 1538 - death of Ivan IV's mother and regent. When she died there was a power struggle between the boyars and when they were finished a period of some serious reforms began which truly changed the medieval Muscovy into the Renaissance Russia. One of the reform was a provincial administration reform - rather than send administrators from Moscov who had no idea what's going on, local administrators were assigned improving economic efficiency and people's satisfaction with rulers.

First, two events for Vladimir to ensure it will always be Russian:

Code:
#(1480-1538) Russian settlement in Vladimir
event = {
	id = 271044
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 271 data = -1 } #Vladimir
                 [COLOR="YellowGreen"]control = { province = 271 data = -1 }[/COLOR]		
                  provincereligion = { province = 271 data = orthodox }
		NOT = { provinceculture = { province = 271 data = russian }} #Doesn't work
	}
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME271044"
	desc = "EVENTHIST271044"
	#-#The city of Viatka was founded in 1181 by Novgorodian traders and was settled by Russians in the 14th and 15th centuries.

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1480 } #Muscovy becomes Russia
	offset = 2000
	deathdate = { day = 4 month = april year = 1538 } #Death of Yelena Glinskaya, mother of Ivan IV - initiates a period of consolidation of Russia

	action_a = {
		name = "GREAT"
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 271 value = russian } #Vladimir
		command = { type = population which = 271 value = 200 } #Vladimir
	}
}

#(1538-1821) Russian settlement in Vladimir (2nd) - to ensure Vladimir ends up being Russian
event = {
	id = 271045
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 271 data = -1 } #Vladimir
                 [COLOR="YellowGreen"]control = { province = 271 data = -1 }[/COLOR]				provincereligion = { province = 271 data = orthodox }
		NOT = { provinceculture = { province = 271 data = russian }} #Doesn't work
	}
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME271044"
	desc = "EVENTHIST271044"
	#-#The city of Viatka was founded in 1181 by Novgorodian traders and was settled by Russians in the 14th and 15th centuries.

	date = { day = 4 month = april year = 1538 } #Death of Yelena Glinskaya, mother of Ivan IV - initiates a period of consolidation of Russia
	offset = 1000
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1821 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GREAT"
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 271 value = russian } #Vladimir
		command = { type = population which = 271 value = 200 } #Vladimir
	}
}

EVENTNAME271044;Russian Settlement in Vladimir;;;;;;;;;;
EVENTHIST271044;The city of Viatka was founded in 1181 by Novgorodian traders and was settled by Russians in the 14th and 15th centuries.;;;;;;;;;;

Two events for Olonets:

Code:
#(1538-1721) Russian rule in Olonets
event = {
	id = 271046
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 267 data = -1 } #Olonets
                 [COLOR="YellowGreen"]control = { province = 267 data = -1 }[/COLOR]		
		provincereligion = { province = 267 data = orthodox }
		NOT = { provinceculture = { province = 267 data = russian }} #Doesn't work
		owned = { province = 274 data = -1 } #Novgorod - the Novgorodian Republic was historically friendly towards Karelians
	}
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME271046"
	desc = "EVENTHIST271046"
	#-#There was always minor Russian settlement in the Karelia region, although Russians didn't become the majority until the 19th century. Olonets Karelia had been part of Russian Karelia since the 12th century. Russian influence was evident in all areas of life.
	
	date = { day = 4 month = april year = 1538 } #Death of Yelena Glinskaya, mother of Ivan IV - initiates a period of consolidation of Russia
	offset = 5000
	deathdate = { day = 10 month = september year = 1721 } #Treaty of Nystad - Kexholm returned to Russia

	action_a = {
		name = "GREAT"
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 267 value = russian } #Olonets
		command = { type = population which = 267 value = 500 } #Olonets
	}
}

#(1721-1821) Russian rule in Olonets (2nd) - in case Sweden converts it to Ugric by event
event = {
	id = 271047
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 267 data = -1 } #Olonets
                 [COLOR="YellowGreen"]control = { province = 267 data = -1 }[/COLOR]
		provincereligion = { province = 267 data = orthodox }
		NOT = { provinceculture = { province = 267 data = russian }} #Doesn't work
		owned = { province = 274 data = -1 } #Novgorod - the Novgorodian Republic was historically friendly towards Karelians
	}
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME271046"
	desc = "EVENTHIST271046"
	#-#There was always minor Russian settlement in the Karelia region, although Russians didn't become the majority until the 19th century. Olonets Karelia had been part of Russian Karelia since the 12th century. Russian influence was evident in all areas of life.
	
	date = { day = 10 month = september year = 1721 } #Treaty of Nystad - Kexholm returned to Russia
	offset = 2500
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1821 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GREAT"
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 267 value = russian } #Olonets
		command = { type = population which = 267 value = 500 } #Olonets
	}
}

EVENTNAME271046;Russian Rule in Olonets;;;;;;;;;;
EVENTHIST271046;There was always minor Russian settlement in the Karelia region, although Russians didn't become the majority until the 19th century. Olonets Karelia had been part of Russian Karelia since the 12th century. Russian influence was evident in all areas of life.;;;;;;;;;;

Two events for Arkhangelsk:

Code:
#(1538-1584) Russian settlement in Arkhangelsk
event = {
	id = 271048
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 269 data = -1 } #Arkhangelsk
                 [COLOR="YellowGreen"]control = { province = 269 data = -1 }[/COLOR]
		provincereligion = { province = 269 data = orthodox }
		NOT = { provinceculture = { province = 269 data = russian }} #Doesn't work
		owned = { province = 274 data = -1 } #Novgorod - Novgorod was important for extending Russian cultural influence to the North and North-East
		event = 271046 #Olonets has to be Russian first
	}
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME271048"
	desc = "EVENTHIST271048"
	#-#The Arkhangelsk area was sparsely populated by the Nenets people before Novgorodians claimed it in the 12th century. While more intensive Russian colonization only began late in the 16th century, the people there were accustomed to Novgorodian rule in the past centuries.

	date = { day = 4 month = april year = 1538 } #Death of Yelena Glinskaya, mother of Ivan IV - initiates a period of consolidation of Russia
	offset = 6000
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1584 } #Arkhangelsk founded

	action_a = {
		name = "GREAT"
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 269 value = russian } #Arkhangelsk
		command = { type = population which = 269 value = 100 } #Arkhangelsk
	}
}

#(1584-1821) Russian settlement in Arkhangelsk (2nd) - in case Sweden converts it to Ugric/Scandinavian
event = {
	id = 271049
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 269 data = -1 } #Arkhangelsk
                [COLOR="YellowGreen"]control = { province = 269 data = -1 }[/COLOR]
		provincereligion = { province = 269 data = orthodox }
		NOT = { provinceculture = { province = 269 data = russian }} #Doesn't work
		owned = { province = 274 data = -1 } #Novgorod - Novgorod was important for extending Russian influence to the North and North-East
		OR = 	{ #Olonets has to be Russian first
			event = 271046 
			event = 271047
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME271048"
	desc = "EVENTHIST271048"
	#-#The Arkhangelsk area was sparsely populated by the Nenets people before Novgorodians claimed it in the 12th century. While more intensive Russian colonization only began late in the 16th century, the people there were accustomed to Novgorodian rule in the past centuries.

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1584 } #Arkhangelsk founded
	offset = 3000
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1821 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GREAT"
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 269 value = russian } #Arkhangelsk
		command = { type = population which = 269 value = 100 } #Arkhangelsk
	}
}

EVENTNAME271048;Russian Settlement in Arkhangelsk;;;;;;;;;;
EVENTHIST271048;The Arkhangelsk area was sparsely populated by the Nenets people before Novgorodians claimed it in the 12th century. While more intensive Russian colonization only began late in the 16th century, the people there were accustomed to Novgorodian rule in the past centuries.;;;;;;;;;;

I also suggest adding a command to an existing Arkhangelsk event:

Code:
#(1553-1566) The Muscovy Trade Company
event = {
	id = 40046 #triggered by ENG_3015
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME3015" #The Muscovy Trade Company
	desc = "EVENTHIST3015"
	#-#In 1553, the Merchant Adventurers Company sent a fleet of three ships with the intent of sailing to China through the Northeast Passage. Most 

ships were struck frozen by the ice-cap and all their crew died of starvation, except the Edward, under senior navigator Richard Chancellor, who entered the 

White Sea and reached Arkhangelsk, a small village that would later grow to a port in 1584. There he learned about the wealth and power of the Russian 

emperor and journeyed in horse-drawn sleighs, in winter, to Moscow. Although Russia and England had diverging interests in establishing relationships with 

each other, the Muscovy Trade Company formed to exploit the new trade was a commercial success, in particular with the Russian fur trade.

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3407B" #Accept the Agreement
		command = { type = treasury value = 100 }
		command = { type = merchants value = 2 }
		command = { type = trade value = 200 }
		command = { type = domestic which = mercantilism value = -1 }
		command = { type = population which = 269 value = 500 } #Arkhangelsk
		[COLOR="Yellow"]command = { type = provinceculture which = 269 value = russian } #Arkhangelsk was colonized by Russians[/COLOR]
		command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 50 }
	}
}

Finally, adding 100 natives to Arkhangelsk with 0 agressiveness and no ferocity in the 1419 and 1520 scenarios would be appropriate. This would represent the Nenets people who inhabited the area.

Now two events for Karelia:

Code:
#(1538-1721) Russian rule in Karelia
event = {
	id = 271050
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 1470 data = -1 } #Karelia
                 [COLOR="YellowGreen"]control = { province = 1470 data = -1 }[/COLOR]
		provincereligion = { province = 1470 data = orthodox }
		NOT = { provinceculture = { province = 1470 data = russian }} #Doesn't work
		owned = { province = 274 data = -1 } #Novgorod - the Novgorodian Republic was historically friendly towards Karelians
		event = 271046 #Olonets has to be Russian first
	}
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME271050"
	desc = "EVENTHIST271050"
	#-#There was always minor Russian settlement in the Karelia region, although Russians didn't become the majority until the 19th century. The people of Russian Karelia were accustomed to three centuries of Novgorodian rule and were predominantly Orthodox Christian. Russian influence was evident in all areas of life.

	date = { day = 4 month = april year = 1538 } #Death of Yelena Glinskaya, mother of Ivan IV - initiates a period of consolidation of Russia
	offset = 7000
	deathdate = { day = 10 month = september year = 1721 } #Treaty of Nystad - Kexholm returned to Russia

	action_a = {
		name = "GREAT"
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 1470 value = russian } #Karelia
		command = { type = population which = 1470 value = 100 } #Karelia
	}
}

#(1721-1821) Russian rule in Karelia (2nd) - in case Sweden converts it to Ugric/Scandinavian
event = {
	id = 271051
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 1470 data = -1 } #Karelia
                 [COLOR="YellowGreen"]control = { province = 1470 data = -1 }[/COLOR]
		provincereligion = { province = 1470 data = orthodox }
		NOT = { provinceculture = { province = 1470 data = russian }} #Doesn't work
		owned = { province = 274 data = -1 } #Novgorod - the Novgorodian Republic was historically friendly towards Karelians
		OR = { #Olonets has to be Russian first
			event = 271046 
			event = 271047
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME271050"
	desc = "EVENTHIST271050"
	#-#There was always minor Russian settlement in the Karelia region, although Russians didn't become the majority until the 19th century. The people of Russian Karelia were accustomed to three centuries of Novgorodian rule and were predominantly Orthodox Christian. Russian influence was evident in all areas of life.

	date = { day = 10 month = september year = 1721 } #Treaty of Nystad - Kexholm returned to Russia
	offset = 3500
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1821 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GREAT"
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 1470 value = russian } #Karelia
		command = { type = population which = 1470 value = 100 } #Karelia
	}
}

EVENTNAME271050;Russian Rule in Karelia;;;;;;;;;;
EVENTHIST271050;There was always minor Russian settlement in the Karelia region, although Russians didn't become the majority until the 19th century. The people of Russian Karelia were accustomed to three centuries of Novgorodian rule and were predominantly Orthodox Christian. Russian influence was evident in all areas of life.;;;;;;;;;;

Kexholm gets three events because it has to partially represent Finnish Karelia which was Catholic (later Lutheran) and influenced by West rather than Russia. I plan to give Sweden two chances to change Kexholm to Ugric.

Code:
#(1538-1617) Russian rule in Kexholm
event = {
	id = 271052
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 266 data = -1 } #Kexholm
                 [COLOR="YellowGreen"]control = { province = 266 data = -1 }[/COLOR]
		provincereligion = { province = 266 data = orthodox }
		NOT = { provinceculture = { province = 266 data = russian }} #Doesn't work
		owned = { province = 274 data = -1 } #Novgorod - the Novgorodian Republic was historically friendly towards Karelians
		event = 271050 #Karelia has to be Russian first
	}
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME271052"
	desc = "EVENTHIST271052"
	#-#There was always minor Russian settlement in the Karelia region, although Russians didn't become the majority until the 19th century. Western Karelia [COLOR="Red"]has been[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]was[/COLOR] divided between Sweden and Novgorod since the 13th-century Swedish-Novgorodian wars.  While Finnish Karelia was predominatly Catholic (later Lutheran) and had strong Western-European influences, Russian Karelia was always Orthodox Christian and was influenced by Russian culture.

	date = { day = 4 month = april year = 1538 } #Death of Yelena Glinskaya, mother of Ivan IV - initiates a period of consolidation of Russia
	offset = 9000
	deathdate = { day = 27 month = february year = 1617 } #Treaty of Stolbovo - Kexholm ceded to Sweden

	action_a = {
		name = "GREAT"
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 266 value = russian } #Kexholm
		command = { type = population which = 266 value = 500 } #Kexholm
	}
}

#(1617-1721) Russian rule in Kexholm (2nd) - in case Sweden converts it to Ugric by event
event = {
	id = 271053
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 266 data = -1 } #Kexholm
                 [COLOR="YellowGreen"]control = { province = 266 data = -1 }[/COLOR]
		provincereligion = { province = 266 data = orthodox }
		NOT = { provinceculture = { province = 266 data = russian }} #Doesn't work
		owned = { province = 274 data = -1 } #Novgorod - the Novgorodian Republic was historically friendly towards Karelians
		event = 271050 #Karelia has to be Russian first
	}
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME271052"
	desc = "EVENTHIST271052"
	#-#There was always minor Russian settlement in the Karelia region, although Russians didn't become the majority until the 19th century. Western Karelia [COLOR="Red"]has been[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]was[/COLOR] divided between Sweden and Novgorod since the 13th-century Swedish-Novgorodian wars.  While Finnish Karelia was predominatly Catholic (later Lutheran) and had strong Western-European influences, Russian Karelia was always Orthodox Christian and was influenced by Russian culture.

	date = { day = 27 month = february year = 1617 } #Treaty of Stolbovo - Kexholm ceded to Sweden
	offset = 6000
	deathdate = { day = 10 month = september year = 1721 } #Treaty of Nystad - Kexholm returned to Russia

	action_a = {
		name = "GREAT"
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 266 value = russian } #Kexholm
		command = { type = population which = 266 value = 500 } #Kexholm
	}
}

#(1721-1821) Russian rule in Kexholm (3rd) - in case Sweden converts it to Ugric by event
event = {
	id = 271054
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 266 data = -1 } #Kexholm
                 [COLOR="YellowGreen"]control = { province = 266 data = -1 }[/COLOR]
		provincereligion = { province = 266 data = orthodox }
		NOT = { provinceculture = { province = 266 data = russian }} #Doesn't work
		owned = { province = 274 data = -1 } #Novgorod - the Novgorodian Republic was historically friendly towards Karelians
		OR = { #Karelia has to be Russian first
			event = 271050
			event = 271051
		}
	}		
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME271052"
	desc = "EVENTHIST271052"
	#-#There was always minor Russian settlement in the Karelia region, although Russians didn't become the majority until the 19th century. Western Karelia [COLOR="Red"]has been[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]was[/COLOR] divided between Sweden and Novgorod since the 13th-century Swedish-Novgorodian wars.  While Finnish Karelia was predominatly Catholic (later Lutheran) and had strong Western-European influences, Russian Karelia was always Orthodox Christian and was influenced by Russian culture.

	date = { day = 10 month = september year = 1721 } #Treaty of Nystad - Kexholm returned to Russia
	offset = 3000
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1821 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GREAT"
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 266 value = russian } #Kexholm
		command = { type = population which = 266 value = 500 } #Kexholm
	}
}

EVENTNAME271052;Russian rule in Kexholm;;;;;;;;;;
EVENTHIST271052;There was always minor Russian settlement in the Karelia region, although Russians didn't become the majority until the 19th century. Western Karelia has been was divided between Sweden and Novgorod since the 13th-century Swedish-Novgorodian wars. While Finnish Karelia was predominatly Catholic (later Lutheran) and had strong Western-European influences, Russian Karelia was always Orthodox Christian and was influenced by Russian culture.;;;;;;;;;;

Two events for Kola:

Code:
#(1538-1721) Russian rule in Kola
event = {
	id = 271055
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 262 data = -1 } #Kola
                 [COLOR="YellowGreen"]control = { province = 262 data = -1 }[/COLOR]
		provincereligion = { province = 262 data = orthodox }
		NOT = { provinceculture = { province = 262 data = russian }} #Doesn't work
		owned = { province = 274 data = -1 } #Novgorod - the Novgorodian Republic was historically friendly towards Karelians
		event = 271050 #Karelia has to be Russian first
	}
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME271055"
	desc = "EVENTHIST271055"
	#-#The Russians were attracted to the Kola Peninsula by plentiful animals and fish, and a relatively mild climate. The most intensive Russian settlement took place during the 15th and 16th centuries. The Sami people made up a large percentage of permanent population, but they were accustomed to three centuries of Novgorodian rule and were mostly Orthodox Christian.

	date = { day = 4 month = april year = 1538 } #Death of Yelena Glinskaya, mother of Ivan IV-initiates a period of consolidation of Russia
	offset = 8000
	deathdate = { day = 10 month = september year = 1721 } #Treaty of Nystad - Kexholm returned to Russia

	action_a = {
		name = "GREAT"
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 262 value = russian } #Kola
		command = { type = population which = 262 value = 50 } #Kola
	}
}


#(1721-1821) Russian rule in Kola (2nd) - in case Sweden converts it to Ugric/Scandinavian
event = {
	id = 271056
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 262 data = -1 } #Kola
                 [COLOR="YellowGreen"]control = { province = 262 data = -1 }[/COLOR]
		provincereligion = { province = 262 data = orthodox }
		NOT = { provinceculture = { province = 262 data = russian }} #Doesn't work
		owned = { province = 274 data = -1 } #Novgorod - the Novgorodian Republic was historically friendly towards Karelians
		OR = { #Karelia has to be Russian first
			event = 271050
			event = 271051
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME271055"
	desc = "EVENTHIST271055"
	#-#The Russians were attracted to the Kola Peninsula by plentiful animals and fish, and a relatively mild climate. The most intensive Russian settlement took place during the 15th and 16th centuries. The Sami people made up a large percentage of permanent population, but they were accustomed to three centuries of Novgorodian rule and were mostly Orthodox Christian.

	date = { day = 10 month = september year = 1721 } #Treaty of Nystad - Kexholm returned to Russia
	offset = 4000
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1821 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GREAT"
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 262 value = russian } #Kola
		command = { type = population which = 262 value = 50 } #Kola
	}
}

EVENTNAME271055;Russian Rule in Kola;;;;;;;;;;
EVENTHIST271055;The Russians were attracted to the Kola Peninsula by plentiful animals and fish, and a relatively mild climate. The most intensive Russian settlement took place during the 15th and 16th centuries. The Sami people made up a large percentage of permanent population, but they were accustomed to three centuries of Novgorodian rule and were mostly Orthodox Christian.;;;;;;;;;;

While we're at it, I'd also like to suggest the following:

Code:
#(1803) The Napoleonic Wars
event = {
	id = 12129 #triggered by FRA_12125 A
	random = no
	country = RUS
	name = "EVENTNAME12125" #The Napoleonic Wars
	desc = "EVENTHIST12128"
	#-#Napoléon argued that he wanted to build a federation of free peoples in a Europe united under a liberal government. But if this was indeed his goal, he intended to achieve it by taking power into his own hands. He supposedly intended to grant constitutions, introduce laws, abolished feudalism, create efficient governments and foster education, science, literature and the arts. The other powers of Europe looked on with alarm at an expansioinist France, bringing its revolutionary ideals and fervour abroad in the wake of Napoléon's military might.  Through the Treaties of Tilsit Russia became briefly an ally of France and that is when it attacked Sweden which couldn't count on help of any of its allies at that time.  Russia took over Finland easily enough, and though it later turned against France once more, Finland would remain under Russian rule for over a century.  Rather than fully incorporate Finland into Russia, tsar Alexander granted Finland autonomy as a grand duchy and Russia respected the constitution, and civil and religious rights already established under Swedish rule; at least for the time being.

	action_a = {
		name = "WAR"
		command = { type = casusbelli which = FRA value = 192 }
		command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 150 }
		command = { type = relation which = SAV value = 150 }
		command = { type = relation which = HAB value = 150 }
		command = { type = relation which = PRU value = 150 }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 150 }
		command = { type = relation which = NAP value = 150 }
		command = { type = relation which = POR value = 150 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 263 } #Österbotten
		command = { type = addcore which = 264 } #Tavastland
		command = { type = addcore which = 265 } #Nyland
		command = { type = addcore which = 273 } #Savolaks
		command = { type = addcore which = 342 } #Finland
		[COLOR="Yellow"]command = { type = add_countryculture which = ugric }[/COLOR]
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "PEACE"
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
	}
}

EVENTHIST12128;Napoléon argued that he wanted to build a federation of free peoples in a Europe united under a liberal government. But if this was indeed his goal, he intended to achieve it by taking power into his own hands. He supposedly intended to grant constitutions, introduce laws, abolished feudalism, create efficient governments and foster education, science, literature and the arts. The other powers of Europe looked on with alarm at an expansioinist France, bringing its revolutionary ideals and fervour abroad in the wake of Napoléon's military might. Through the Treaties of Tilsit Russia became briefly an ally of France and that is when it attacked Sweden which couldn't count on help of any of its allies at that time. Russia took over Finland easily enough, and though it later turned against France once more, Finland would remain under Russian rule for over a century. Rather than fully incorporate Finland into Russia, tsar Alexander granted Finland autonomy as a grand duchy and Russia respected the constitution, and civil and religious rights already established under Swedish rule, at least for the time being.;;;;;;;;;;

No problem for Finnic since it is more accurate. Livonia is indeed to be checked then.

This discussion is tied to ahistorical development of Denmark or Norway since Sweden gets the Ugric/Finnic culture from start.

I could find little information about Livonia, but I did find some. It seems that Northern portion of Livland was definitely Estonian, while southern part was definitely Latvian. The Livonians were present in the south too though they were in decline by that time. The cities however, most importantly Riga, were predominantly German and Latvian (Riga is capital of Livland in AGCEEP). Dorpat was another city that was predominantly Latvian/Other Baltic/German. Dorpat is the capital of Livland in EU2 vanilla. As time went on, the Latvians partially assimilated the Finnic Livonians, and more of Balts came to Livland from the south. So I'd say change Livland to baltic. Also, as you say, we must consider what-ifs, and I don't think that Sweden would deserve to have that province accepted, by the virtue of city population being mosly Baltic/German, and also because Sweden granted the city significant autonomy once they conquered it. I don't know if it's an argument at all, but in EU3 demo Livland is Latvian...

Also, the city in the province Livland ought to be moved to the south-western tip of the province.

So does the High Council approve of the above events? If so, I will make similar events for Sweden so that they can cchange the culture back to Ugric if they conquer and convert a province. Russia can conquer back and convert to orthodox, hence the duplicate events for each province.
 
Last edited:

Toio

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Heimdall

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First of all, I have no large objections to these proposed events as they are, rightly, only intended to get rid of an unjust disadvantage against Russia. I do however still have a few things to adress:

What about game balance? Will these changes make Russia too strong, not even allowing Sweden its short-lived age of greateness? Russia still has a lot of right-cultured provinces to make it strong, but I hope these changes doesn't "tip the scales" so to speak.


I could find little information about Livonia, but I did find some. It seems that Northern portion of Livland was definitely Estonian, while southern part was definitely Latvian. The Livonians were present in the south too though they were in decline by that time. The cities however, most importantly Riga, were predominantly German and Latvian (Riga is capital of Livland in AGCEEP). Dorpat was another city that was predominantly Latvian/Other Baltic/German. Dorpat is the capital of Livland in EU2 vanilla. As time went on, the Latvians partially assimilated the Finnic Livonians, and more of Balts came to Livland from the south. So I'd say change Livland to baltic. Also, as you say, we must consider what-ifs, and I don't think that Sweden would deserve to have that province accepted, by the virtue of city population being mosly Baltic/German, and also because Sweden granted the city significant autonomy once they conquered it. I don't know if it's an argument at all, but in EU3 demo Livland is Latvian...

As Toio said, he is proposing to give Sweden Baltic culture during the 17th century, given certain preconditions. Though I am biased towards Sweden, I can't see any historical reason to not do this - game play balance is another issue though, and might have been the reason why Paradox chose to remove the Baltic culture in the later patches.

So does the High Council approve of the above events? If so, I will make similar events for Sweden so that they can cchange the culture back to Ugric if they conquer and convert a province. Russia can conquer back and convert to orthodox, hence the duplicate events for each province.

What do you all think about making random events regarding these changes? As in Russia (+possibly some minors) gets random "culture conversion"-events, as does Sweden (+possibly other nation).

we already did this with

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9301323&postcount=789

and also look at same thread post 795

He's talking about provincecultures though, not accepted cultures. (I will edit my event there btw)
 

Toio

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First of all, I have no large objections to these proposed events as they are, rightly, only intended to get rid of an unjust disadvantage against Russia. I do however still have a few things to adress:

What about game balance? Will these changes make Russia too strong, not even allowing Sweden its short-lived age of greateness? Russia still has a lot of right-cultured provinces to make it strong, but I hope these changes doesn't "tip the scales" so to speak.




As Toio said, he is proposing to give Sweden Baltic culture during the 17th century, given certain preconditions. Though I am biased towards Sweden, I can't see any historical reason to not do this - game play balance is another issue though, and might have been the reason why Paradox chose to remove the Baltic culture in the later patches.



What do you all think about making random events regarding these changes? As in Russia (+possibly some minors) gets random "culture conversion"-events, as does Sweden (+possibly other nation).



He's talking about provincecultures though, not accepted cultures. (I will edit my event there btw)

in regards to game balance..........these will be discussed once implemented in the beta version

Paradox removed baltic from sweden in the vanilla game..........the AGCEEP needs to ignore this unless proven to be correct.

the russian event IMO are only a minor adjustment ( i could be wrong) and he made russia gain 30% income and manpower by the province culture changes.
I do agree that russia getting baltic culture needs to be looked at