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tuesday4am

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I see this thread has degenerated into another quibbling session, when all the original poster wanted to know is if AGCEEP is going to use a modified map or not. It has been months and hundreds of posts on the new map, and there is still no definitive answer from the HC. Personally, I've been waiting to see if there is going to be a new map before working on any new events. I'm sure other people would like to know, finally and for sure, if the mod is going to use the new map or not. In that regard, I'm all for the new map, and I think measures should be taken now to divide up the necessary work to convert events, etc. to the new map.
 

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tuesday4am said:
I see this thread has degenerated into another quibbling session, when all the original poster wanted to know is if AGCEEP is going to use a modified map or not. It has been months and hundreds of posts on the new map, and there is still no definitive answer from the HC. Personally, I've been waiting to see if there is going to be a new map before working on any new events. I'm sure other people would like to know, finally and for sure, if the mod is going to use the new map or not. In that regard, I'm all for the new map, and I think measures should be taken now to divide up the necessary work to convert events, etc. to the new map.
I think it's been rather well answered here, has it not? There is no one from the HC who says plain no, but severel have concerns and want further changes before the change to a new map. Even if we haven't voted, the answer is "not yet". Since Agung Pasha is free to do what he wants with his map, it's still an open question of what will eventually happen. As I understand it the PTI isn't behaving as we want it to?
 

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How come no effort is made to adapt casparus map for agceep?
Imho it's the better of the two maps we have right now...
 

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Trin Tragula said:
How come no effort is made to adapt casparus map for agceep?
Imho it's the better of the two maps we have right now...

I disagree, there are many portions of the map that Kasperus didn't have great knowledge of (he admitted so to the Central Asian region) or wanted it to fall in line with vanilla and so has odd provinces so as not to have to introduce more states (Hyderabad province).

At the current moment, I think that the best map that we have is the vanilla map as everything is currently modified for it, and you can't really debate its province distribution. ;)
 

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Garbon said:
I disagree, there are many portions of the map that Kasperus didn't have great knowledge of (he admitted so to the Central Asian region) or wanted it to fall in line with vanilla and so has odd provinces so as not to have to introduce more states (Hyderabad province).

At the current moment, I think that the best map that we have is the vanilla map as everything is currently modified for it, and you can't really debate its province distribution. ;)
Well you can debate the province distributions still.
 

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Norrefeldt said:
I think it's been rather well answered here, has it not? There is no one from the HC who says plain no, but severel have concerns and want further changes before the change to a new map. Even if we haven't voted, the answer is "not yet". Since Agung Pasha is free to do what he wants with his map, it's still an open question of what will eventually happen. As I understand it the PTI isn't behaving as we want it to?

OK, I guess I, like others here perhaps, am very confused about what the hell is happening with the map. The map discussions seem to be endless, and now I see effort being put into tweaking MyMap (Who came up with this idiotic name?) to AGCEEP, even though it isn't the official map. I guess all I was asking for was a definitive statement from the HC about the map, who is in charge, what efforts are being made to start converting events, what sort of timetable wer're looking at, etc. I see that that isn't forthcoming, so I guess it's back to patient trolling.
 

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tuesday4am said:
OK, I guess I, like others here perhaps, am very confused about what the hell is happening with the map. The map discussions seem to be endless, and now I see effort being put into tweaking MyMap (Who came up with this idiotic name?) to AGCEEP, even though it isn't the official map. I guess all I was asking for was a definitive statement from the HC about the map, who is in charge, what efforts are being made to start converting events, what sort of timetable wer're looking at, etc. I see that that isn't forthcoming, so I guess it's back to patient trolling.

If an "official" position hasn't been formed, then I'm not sure that your "trolling" effort will be fruitful... :confused:
 

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tuesday4am said:
OK, I guess I, like others here perhaps, am very confused about what the hell is happening with the map. The map discussions seem to be endless, and now I see effort being put into tweaking MyMap (Who came up with this idiotic name?) to AGCEEP, even though it isn't the official map. I guess all I was asking for was a definitive statement from the HC about the map, who is in charge, what efforts are being made to start converting events, what sort of timetable wer're looking at, etc. I see that that isn't forthcoming, so I guess it's back to patient trolling.

If the HC are unable at this early stage of MyMap's development to adopt it as the official AGCEEP Map (and I understand the hesitation), could they instead actively coordinate:
- the tweaking of MyMap to match AGCEEP
- creating some MyMap-specific events?

I've just finished my third run through the HYW on AGCEEP-MyMap and can see a lot of potential for more detail and accuracy than the vanilla map offers. There's room for adding plenty of new events based on the new provinces and if we are to fully assess whether MyMap and AGCEEP should end up together then we need a coordinated effort to use it to its full. Unless some decisive action is taken I can see everyone ending up working on their own version of events for MyMap and the current momentum being gradually lost.
 

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muttoneer said:
If the HC are unable at this early stage of MyMap's development to adopt it as the official AGCEEP Map (and I understand the hesitation), could they instead actively coordinate:
- the tweaking of MyMap to match AGCEEP
- creating some MyMap-specific events?
We need an artist to do this, willing to make a map the HC as a whole is happy enough about to do the switch.

muttoneer said:
Unless some decisive action is taken I can see everyone ending up working on their own version of events for MyMap and the current momentum being gradually lost.
Yes, I think we risk ending up with two AGCEEP otherwise. One for Mymap, adapted by Agung Pasha, and this one here.
 

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Sute]{h said:
Use MKJ's drawing and rename Värmland to Bergslagen then. ;)

Please don't revert to MKJ's drawing... The borders look better as they are now. Why not merge Värmland with Bergslagen on the current map instead?
 

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Norrefeldt said:
We need an artist to do this, willing to make a map the HC as a whole is happy enough about to do the switch.
OK - could I suggest that the HC agrees a set of criteria for any map maker that might want to take up the challenge, if you've not done so already that is! :)
I'd love to help, but I'm a historian not an artist... :rolleyes:

Norrefeldt said:
Yes, I think we risk ending up with two AGCEEP otherwise. One for Mymap, adapted by Agung Pasha, and this one here.
I, for one, would not want to see that happen. There is a good community of well-informed people helping with AGCEEP, and we should try to work together.
 

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Norrefeldt said:
We need an artist to do this, willing to make a map the HC as a whole is happy enough about to do the switch.
Or at least a majority of the HC if I understand the operation correctly. I don't think that a total consensus is likely since a map change is such a fundamental change. As the numerous map thread around here shows everybody has very strong opions on how a future map should look.

Ohh... and I'm confidant that Agung Pasha will be willing to fix the most aggrevating issues people in the HC might have. As long as they are specific and not general in nature. IMHO we have passed the time for general fundamental changes to the nature of the map. Either we correct the specific issues we have, such as one province being more important than the other, or we start the whole thing over again with a more structured approch.

EDIT:

Norrefeldt said:
Yes, I think we risk ending up with two AGCEEP otherwise. One for Mymap, adapted by Agung Pasha, and this one here.
Or more likely contributions will drop, since modders will focus on either MYmap or vanilla. I for one am likely not going to script for vanilla since it feel quite outdated by now. How many a scripting for the old EEP og AGC projects now for instance?
 
Last edited:

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G-Klav said:
Please don't revert to MKJ's drawing... The borders look better as they are now. Why not merge Värmland with Bergslagen on the current map instead?
Funny I liked MKJ's drawing better... But by all means just merge Värmland and Bergslagen. However a general smoothening of provinces must be done. The current rigid province borders doesn't look good IMHO.
 

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Sute]{h said:
Ohh... and I'm confidant that Agung Pasha will be willing to fix the most aggrevating issues people in the HC might have. As long as they are specific and not general in nature. IMHO we have passed the time for general fundamental changes to the nature of the map. Either we correct the specific issues we have, such as one province being more important than the other, or we start the whole thing over again with a more structured approch.

It'd be great if this would be possible. Designing a new map from scratch will take much more time than adapting the new one to our needs.
Also, deciding on what to do to make it suit everyone and the HC will most likely be more simple with the map at hand than to discuss the whole thing anew.

Sute]{h said:
Or more likely contributions will drop, since modders will focus on either MYmap or vanilla. I for one am likely not going to script for vanilla since it feel quite outdated by now. How many a scripting for the old EEP og AGC projects now for instance?

Same with me. Since there's a new map on the way I don't feel like doing anything except than adapting it for AGCEEP.

Sute]{h said:
Funny I liked MKJ's drawing better... But by all means just merge Värmland and Bergslagen. However a general smoothening of provinces must be done. The current rigid province borders doesn't look good IMHO.

With the risk of sounding too full of myself I think that MKJ's Swedish map looked too artificial, even compared to the vanilla map which looks really cartoonish in some areas.
Also, what's wrong with the borders following actual provinces?
 

Sute]{h

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Hallsten said:
With the risk of sounding too full of myself I think that MKJ's Swedish map looked too artificial, even compared to the vanilla map which looks really cartoonish in some areas. Also, what's wrong with the borders following actual provinces?
I'm alright with simply merging Värmland and Bergslagen and using your drawing a basis. However as a number of people have pointed out sharp borders doesn't look as good in EU2 as smoother ones. So if we use your setup (which is properly more correct) we'll have to smoothen the border to make it look better. I have no problem with that at all. :)
 

tuesday4am

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Garbon said:
If an "official" position hasn't been formed, then I'm not sure that your "trolling" effort will be fruitful... :confused:

Well, what I meant is similiar to what others have expressed: I don't feel like working on events for the vanilla map if there is a new map coming. For example, I would like to continue the work I started on the French Wars of Religion, but since it is so dependent on the religion of various French provinces, it seems pointless to do so if there is a new map coming. It seems other people would prefer a more structured approach to this whole map thing. Perhaps a new thread to start listing the necessary work to be done in converting AGCEEP to a new map. For example, as I know from the aforementioned work on FWOR, new probabilities and events for the reformation will be necessary (quite a bit of work actually, but it could start now, debating probabilities, etc.). So instead of sitting still waiting for a new map that pleases everyone, some initial work can be done now and we can hit the new map running, so to speak.
 

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tuesday4am said:
Well, what I meant is similiar to what others have expressed: I don't feel like working on events for the vanilla map if there is a new map coming. For example, I would like to continue the work I started on the French Wars of Religion, but since it is so dependent on the religion of various French provinces, it seems pointless to do so if there is a new map coming. It seems other people would prefer a more structured approach to this whole map thing. Perhaps a new thread to start listing the necessary work to be done in converting AGCEEP to a new map. For example, as I know from the aforementioned work on FWOR, new probabilities and events for the reformation will be necessary (quite a bit of work actually, but it could start now, debating probabilities, etc.). So instead of sitting still waiting for a new map that pleases everyone, some initial work can be done now and we can hit the new map running, so to speak.

However the fundamental assumption in this is that by and large the work in a particular new map (e.g. MyMap) is going to be accepted for the project. Otherwise, it even worse if you started creating events for a particular new map that wasn't used, as not only would have events that were not usable for vanilla, but you'd have events that weren't usable for anything.

The best thing that can be done, if one doesn't feel like coding this for the current map, is to take a break until the plans for the new map are formalized. Creating events and balancing for a new map, before a map is decided upon, would only serve to confuse the issue.
 

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Garbon said:
The best thing that can be done, if one doesn't feel like coding this for the current map, is to take a break until the plans for the new map are formalized. Creating events and balancing for a new map, before a map is decided upon, would only serve to confuse the issue.

Exactly, hence "patient trolling".
 

unmerged(40707)

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To tuesday4am: You had a good idea about perpetual Pope. No need for a new map to finish it. Am I wrong? ;)
Corresponding thread is always here... I can help you, if needed.