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Herr Doctor

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Norrefeldt said:
Why should we take that into account here? Swedish provinces have Swedish names, Polish and German provinces have their names, not old Latin or English forms to adopt to a would-be conqueror.
Are you joking? Poland has only English and Latin names everywhere, as well as Lithuania, Ukraine, Hungary, Walachia and the rest of Eastern Europe (the are only a couple of exceptions when there were no English analogs at all)… Or is it all some “small obscure African statelet” as you said?
 

Norrefeldt

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Herr Doctor said:
Are you joking? Poland has only English and Latin names everywhere, as well as Lithuania, Ukraine, Hungary, Walachia and the rest of Eastern Europe (the are only a couple of exceptions when there were no English analogs at all)… Or is it all some “small obscure African statelet” as you said?
Yes, I was joking. :( I forgot that there's total anarchy among names. I remember the debates over Poland though.
I guess I can live with it.
 

Herr Doctor

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Norrefeldt said:
Yes, I was joking. :( I forgot that there's total anarchy among names. I remember the debates over Poland though.
I guess I can live with it.
It’s not only because the East European stuff was extremely debatable (at last at the part of the Kingdom of Poland itself it was not), but I believe mainly as there are no many people which know the Slavic languages grammar to understand and read these names correctly (especially in Polish and Czech). The other case is Western Europe, as the people playing EUII know at last one of the Romanic or Germanic languages, so it is not a problem to read and assimilate correctly any of the Scandinavian, French or German province names.

Greek is not so popular and easy to use it on map, IMO. At last for me it will be damn hard to read and keep in mind the Greek names. :)
 

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Herr Doctor said:
Greek is not so popular and easy to use it on map, IMO. At last for me it will be damn hard to read and keep in mind the Greek names. :)

*nods*

I remember when it was decided to use greek/roman names, but it never set well with me.
 

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Garbon said:
*nods*

I remember when it was decided to use greek/roman names, but it never set well with me.
Yea, but i thought it was only decided for those places where territory shifted too much, not places where the land was owned 100% of the time by OE.
 

Toio

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unmerged(40707)

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Good link. I didn't know that site.

PTI loading bug is problematic. At least, we have a solution...

Btw, I have a real problem with fortress command in 1.08 latest beta. I've done a lot of tests for China add-on and "capital move to Beijing" event. I don't understand why but this command doesn't work whatever I do, despite syntax is checked, uses province id (not -1 or -2) and tooltip for action's button is displayed as intended:
1) at landtech1 and no fortress - fortress +1 => no result
2) at landtech10 and no fortress - fortress +1 => no result
3) at landtech10 and no fortress - fortress +2 => no result
4) at landtech10 fortress lvl1 - fortress +1 => no result
The only thing I'm sure, there is no baillif in province, but this is not mandatory for fortress construction... :confused: :(
Did I miss something?
 

TommyIlRomano

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Sute]{h said:
I'm in favor of the new map, though I agree on the cosmetic changes stated by Garbon. I for one don't feel the need to have the minimap centered on Europe, as this will mean a more limited IDgrid. I think that a center change is a very small price to pay to increase the number of possible provinces in Europe.

c/s
 

Bordic

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Norrefeldt said:
Sorry, I should have checked that. I found the post with grids again.
http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191611&page=57&pp=25

I think we should:
  • Merge Sardinia for gameplay reasons. (It was historically never divided.)
  • Värmland should go, it is historically/economically/strategically much less significant than several left-out Swedish provinces. Several Baltic sea zones are needed. Most crucial is to split the one totally encircling Denmark. (In vanilla this is four sea zones!!)
  • Merge Corfu and Ionia and put back the sea zone removed from between Greece and Italy. Corfu actually belongs to the Ionian island group.
  • Remove Nice, since they were not separated until 1793. Put back a sea zone in the Med. (This have also been suggested by Herr Doctor, YodaMaster, almoravid and Aegnor, page 57 of the other thread.)
  • Remove Euboea. Modern Greece has swelled from 7 to 13, that will be a terrible burden of poor Christian land to OE.
  • Merge the Principality of Achaea with Morea in Peleponnesos for the same reason. It only existed till 1432, and did nothing. By now Greece could be down to ten provinces, that's still a very large representation for this area.
Btw, isn't Peloponnesos a better name than Morea? Morea was just the name given by the crusaders, and having another name than Morea is also good since the Despotate of Morea was just the southern half.

and maybe also split Cote d'Azur and Adriatic seazones and merge Lika for a Carinthia province!?

Please, Lido must be changed. How can you have a "COT in Lido". Better to write on the map Venezia or, in latin, Venetia!

And as for removing Nice, I think you intend to merge it with Piemonte. In taht case we have to give Piemonte (Savoy) a port.
 

Toio

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Norrefeldt said:
A good link. Agung pasha said he will do another AGCEEP update, we'll see what comes out of it.
As I understand it the new map won't work well with AGCEEP until the PTI loading bug is fixed, or we make AGCEEP only run as a separate installation, not in moddir?

Being thats its a good link , then from that site:

two groups of Franks undertook the occupation of the Morea and created a loose alliance of the Greek population under a Latin (Western) autocrat, as the Principality of Achaea, centered within the Peleponnesos, which the Latins, following local practice, called the Morea.

It should stay Morea.
 

Mad King James

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The Pelopponese is the richest and post populous part of Greece, and in 1419 was divided politically between the Despotate of Morea and the Principality of Achaia. I don't see why it's such a big deal to have it as 2 provinces, especially since we can't use that extra province where it would be more worthwhile, IE western Europe.
 

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To Bordic: good ideas, but "Cote d'Azur" => "Golfe du Lion" and Venezia seems better.
To Toio: right, and I understand why Morea (Morée in french) is (or was) as good as Peleponnesos to represent this area for french people. Btw, iirc, the later better suits Ancient Greek Time or nowadays purely geographical in France.
 

Toio

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YodaMaster said:
To Bordic: good ideas, but "Cote d'Azur" => "Golfe du Lion" and Venezia seems better.
To Toio: right, and I understand why Morea (Morée in french) is (or was) as good as Peleponnesos to represent this area for french people. Btw, iirc, the later better suits Ancient Greek Time or nowadays purely geographical in France.

Following local practice means to me it was a greek name ie Morea. Pelopennese s means peninsula
 

Toio

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Mad King James said:
The Pelopponese is the richest and post populous part of Greece, and in 1419 was divided politically between the Despotate of Morea and the Principality of Achaia. I don't see why it's such a big deal to have it as 2 provinces, especially since we can't use that extra province where it would be more worthwhile, IE western Europe.

richest and populous at 1419 and not now, but I agree with you that it should be 2 province.
 

Bordic

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YodaMaster said:
To Bordic: good ideas, but "Cote d'Azur" => "Golfe du Lion" and Venezia seems better.

Naturellement! Golfe du Lyon and I'll add Ligurian Sea. Cote d'Azur was the sea zone in the middle of them in vanilla EU2 map...
 

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Bordic said:
Naturellement! Golfe du Lyon and I'll add Ligurian Sea. Cote d'Azur was the sea zone in the middle of them in vanilla EU2 map...
Lion not Lyon :) (or "y" for old french?)

What is better: Ligurian Sea or Gulf of Genoa (Golfo Di Genova)?
 
Last edited:

Bordic

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YodaMaster said:
Lion not Lyon :)

What is better: Ligurian Sea or Gulf of Genoa (Golfo Di Genova)?

Gulf of Genoa should be to the immaginary line drown from Imperia to La Spezia then it becomes Ligurian Sea bordering Continental France, Corsica and Northwestern Tuscany.
 

G-Klav

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One thing you could do, to keep the number of provinces on a reasonable level is to make some kind of list of all the new provinces, and then people will have to defend each province they would like to see in the game.

As I haven't tried this map yet I don't know how it's changing the game, but as the game is made for the map that's in vanilla, with below 1600 land provinces (don't know the exact number), it might cause some balance issues with an 1539 OE that's increased from e.g. 25 provinces (just random numbers, both of them) to 50 provinces.

Some provinces are definately needed, the HRE needs more provinces than in vanilla, Portugal and Denmark needs more provinces and ROTW, especially Asia needs a lot of new provinces. But that e.g. Greece is increased from 7 to 13 provinces looks dangerous to me (if Greece wasn't particularly difficult to hold in the era, I don't know).