Semi-Lobster said:
Hey I'm just dropping by. You guys decide! That said, my feeling is no - the game starts in 1419, not 1420. Aragon gets the core in 1420 and can choose to take it over then.
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Hey I'm just dropping by. You guys decide! That said, my feeling is no - the game starts in 1419, not 1420. Aragon gets the core in 1420 and can choose to take it over then.
Sure, but then who should own it in 1419? Not Genoa, not Aragon, not independent.Isaac Brock said:
A posible solution would be to have it belong to Aragon but under rebel control. They won't get it back before 1420. Then after 1434 it should go to Genoa.
Why shouldn't Genoa own it? They held the capital, which is more than anyone else can claim. They were the last to have full control (well as close as anyone could have?). If it's rebel owned it will usually declare independence which really isn't right. Maybe have some rebels outside the fort. Vincentello was, by 1419, only nominally responsible to King Alphonso of Aragon, if that.
Well maybe, but Visconti thought Alfonso had enough of a case to exchange his right to it for two naval bases, and Visconti was the ruler of Genoa.Isaac Brock said:
If Corsica is pushed past 1450 as a revolter, she could be controlled by rebels and with a rebel army on top of it quite happily, giving a good headache to whoever owns it, as it should. With a good revolt risk on top of it, rebels would pile up on top of each other as high as attrition allows. :rofl:
I am not pushing a case for Aragon owning Corsica. Not in 1419, not later. They did put some effort, but did not get anything out of it. However the situation of Genoa owning Corsica between 1420-1434 is equally wrong. Not that they collected any taxes there. I think rebels should control the island until Vicentello is killed. That Vicentello was pro-Aragonian does not mean that Aragon controlled the island, it means that Genoa did not.Isaac Brock said:
I don't even think that Aragon should get a core. The title given by the Pope was wet paper unless you could conquer it, and the historic outcome does not support a core.
Hi, just dropping by too. A few remarks.
Vincentello d'Istria was appointed Vice-Roy in 1416 by Alfonso V. In 1419 he already controlled the whole Island, except for Calvi and Bonifacio.
In 1420, the Aragonese took Calvi and besieged Bonifacio as has already been said but Alfonso had to leave in January 1421 for Naples where Queen Giovanna called him.
Calvi, the genoese capital before Bastia, immediately revolted against the small aragonese garrison and Vincentello was never able to take these two cities again. He had his own capital in Corte though.
It seems that he was not a very good ruler and in 1430 a first round of revolts lead mostly by genoese partisans almost succeded. A second round in 1434 forced him to leave the island to get some help, he went to Tuscany and when sailing for Aragon was captured at sea by the Genoans who had him tried and executed.
The leader of the revolters, Simone da Mare, then governed Corsica for the Genoans until 1436 when he was defeated by other revolters, mostly Vincentello's partisans. Genoa sent an expeditionary corps in the island who finally took control back in 1437, for a few years only.
I have some events with an independent Corsica, vassal of Aragon under Vincentello d'Istria in 1419. The island becomes vassal of Genoa under Simone da Mare in 1434 and is finally inherited in 1436.
Of course the 1434 event has an option to remain independent and another one to remain under Aragon. This is not so unhistorical as a powerful lord was in fact elected Count by a local assembly in 1436 while Vincentello's nephew was appointed Count by Alfonso V in 1435.
Then there are a lot of events for Genoa with revolts and revoltrisk until 1511.
Would that solution be acceptable?
P.S. I know nothing about the exchange with Visconti, but the agreement certainly did not hold because Alfonso V made another attempt against Bonifacio in 1424 and continued to support the feudal lords opposing Genoa until his death.
Vincentello d'Istria was appointed Vice-Roy in 1416 by Alfonso V. In 1419 he already controlled the whole Island, except for Calvi and Bonifacio.
In 1420, the Aragonese took Calvi and besieged Bonifacio as has already been said but Alfonso had to leave in January 1421 for Naples where Queen Giovanna called him.
Calvi, the genoese capital before Bastia, immediately revolted against the small aragonese garrison and Vincentello was never able to take these two cities again. He had his own capital in Corte though.
It seems that he was not a very good ruler and in 1430 a first round of revolts lead mostly by genoese partisans almost succeded. A second round in 1434 forced him to leave the island to get some help, he went to Tuscany and when sailing for Aragon was captured at sea by the Genoans who had him tried and executed.
The leader of the revolters, Simone da Mare, then governed Corsica for the Genoans until 1436 when he was defeated by other revolters, mostly Vincentello's partisans. Genoa sent an expeditionary corps in the island who finally took control back in 1437, for a few years only.
I have some events with an independent Corsica, vassal of Aragon under Vincentello d'Istria in 1419. The island becomes vassal of Genoa under Simone da Mare in 1434 and is finally inherited in 1436.
Of course the 1434 event has an option to remain independent and another one to remain under Aragon. This is not so unhistorical as a powerful lord was in fact elected Count by a local assembly in 1436 while Vincentello's nephew was appointed Count by Alfonso V in 1435.
Then there are a lot of events for Genoa with revolts and revoltrisk until 1511.
Would that solution be acceptable?
P.S. I know nothing about the exchange with Visconti, but the agreement certainly did not hold because Alfonso V made another attempt against Bonifacio in 1424 and continued to support the feudal lords opposing Genoa until his death.
Sure, specially if you have already done the events. Seems that control over Corsica was very tenuous until 1437. Perhaps with that solution both Aragon and Genoa can have a core. The core of Aragon should vanish with the death of Vicentello.Third Angel said:
A side advantage could be that Aragon might enter an alliance with Corsica solving a recently reported bug in which Aragon frequently allied Dauphiné at the beginning of the game.
Fine, then I will post the first ones tonight after work.
A few more remarks:
I ran a hands-off game yesterday with 1.41 on normal/normal and Genoa was diplo-annexed by Milan in 1432, screwing the whole annnexion of Corsica sequence.
Event GEN 174005 "Genoa encircled" actually makes Genoa a vassal of Milan and adds 100 to relationship. Is this really necessary? (I see that GEN 174029 only wakes Sforzas rulers without Genoa being vassalized or relations upped).
When using 1.40, I usually had Aragon and Corsica begin as allies (until january 1421 when Alfonso V forsook the siege of Bonifacio) to prevent the Dauphine-Aragon alliance.
I have Genoa and Aragon begin with cores on Corsica. In 1.40, Genoa usually dowed Corsica in the first years, they don't do it anymore with the new AI, which is fine. I remove the aragonese core in 1461 because in this year was the last recorded support given by Juan II to Corsican revolters, but it could be done earlier.
A few more remarks:
I ran a hands-off game yesterday with 1.41 on normal/normal and Genoa was diplo-annexed by Milan in 1432, screwing the whole annnexion of Corsica sequence.
Event GEN 174005 "Genoa encircled" actually makes Genoa a vassal of Milan and adds 100 to relationship. Is this really necessary? (I see that GEN 174029 only wakes Sforzas rulers without Genoa being vassalized or relations upped).
When using 1.40, I usually had Aragon and Corsica begin as allies (until january 1421 when Alfonso V forsook the siege of Bonifacio) to prevent the Dauphine-Aragon alliance.
I have Genoa and Aragon begin with cores on Corsica. In 1.40, Genoa usually dowed Corsica in the first years, they don't do it anymore with the new AI, which is fine. I remove the aragonese core in 1461 because in this year was the last recorded support given by Juan II to Corsican revolters, but it could be done earlier.
This should not happen. Perhaps the relationship should not be enhanced. GEN should reject the annexation, because it is quite rich, but perhaps the lack of corsica makes them easier to diplo-annex.Third Angel said:
As a side effect, the idea of Corsica used to prevent Aragonese weird alliance is really interesting. Please post your solution. 
Yes +100 relation can be removed, but notice that with GEN 174029 there is MLO 228023 which enable Milan to vassalize Genoa...Third Angel said:
I wrote that event. Wouldn't it make more sense to lower starting relations by 100 rather than changing the event? There was almost a war in 1420, and the reason for the relations boost is that after the vassalage the Genoese were pretty happy under Milanese rule (until the rapprochement with Aragon in 1435 of course). I have a feeling the initial GEN-MLO relations have been improved since I wrote the event, as as the vassalage event fire right at the start of the game it doesn't much matter whether the change is in the starting relations or the event.
Isaac Brock said:
Reading through internet (cronologia.it) in 1418 Visconti sent Carmagnola to besiege the city and Tommaso di Campofregoso, facing also an Aragonese attack to Corsica was obliged to sign a peace treaty with Visconti in exchange of a huge amount of money.
But in 1421 Visconti broke the treaty, Genoa sought the Florentine help ceding them Livorno. Receiving nothing but neutrality from Florence and threatened by the Aragonese fleet and the Milanese troops, the Genoese Republic submitted to Milan in Novembre 1421. Carmagnola was the first Milanese Governor.
So a +100 relation could be omitted...
It could be tried that Aragon has an independent Corsica as ally and vassal. That independent Corsica should dissolve into the hands of Genoa by 1434-37. By then either Aragon have other allies, most probably Italian, or will have to seek a new alliance.YodaMaster said:As a side effect, the idea of Corsica used to prevent Aragonese weird alliance is really interesting. Please post your solution.
Bordic said:
In my mind these facts suggest the exact opposite - the +100 relations is required.
After the vassalization relations need to be decent to prevent Genoa from immediately breaking vassalage from a 1 province Milan. So the question about the +100 relations is about whether the relations between Milan and Genoa should start out as bad or neutral. The facts show that they should start out as bad. Thye should then be improved so Genoa stays vassalized.
We must be aware that the alliance (and the vassalization?) by event also boost relations. I just tried with a starting relationship at 0 and a +100 in the vassalization event.Isaac Brock said:
In january 1421, just before the "Genoa encircled" event, Genoa already had entered the milanese alliance anyway and the relation was +63. After it fired, it was +200.
. I will try it now with a +50 to see how it goes.EDIT: Also Milan has two provinces, just as Genoa without Corsica.
EDIT2: Second test with 0 at start between GEN and MLO and +50 in the event. Genoa again entered the milanese alliance before the event, after it fired relations were upped by 100, which means that the vassalization by event gives a +50.
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Anyway, here is a proposal for a 1419_COR_Corsica.inc file:
Modifications to 1419_GEN_Genoa.inc:
Code:
# Corsica (COR) #
country = {
tag = COR
ai = "SmallTrade1.ai"
colonialattempts = 0
colonialnation = no
major = no
colonists = 0
cancelledloans = 0
extendedloans = 0
treasury = 49
inflation = 0
diplomats = 1
religion = { type = catholic }
culture = { type = italian }
diplomacy = {
relation = { tag = ARG value = 175 }
relation = { tag = GEN value = -200 }
relation = { tag = PAP value = 150 }
}
knownprovinces = {
231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 263
264 265 266 270 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299
300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330
331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361
362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392
393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423
424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 450 461 462 463 464 465 466 469 470
474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 490 977 491 492 493 494 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742
744 745 746 805 806 817 819 820 821 836 837 838 840 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 916 917
918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986
987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013
1014 1015 1016 1017 1055 1057 1058 1331 1361 1362 1466 1469 1609 1610 1611 1612 1613
}
ownedprovinces = { 398 }
controlledprovinces = { 398 }
nationalprovinces = { 398 }
city = {
name = "Bastia"
fortress = { level = 1 }
population = 5500
location = 398
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 9423 id = ??? }
name = "Guarda Corsa"
location = 398
infantry = 2000
cavalry = 600
artillery = 0
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 9423 id = ??? }
name = "Squadra Corsa"
location = 398
warships = 0
galleys = 3
transports = 0
}
technology = {
stability = { level = 0 value = 0 }
infra = { level = 1 value = 50 }
trade = { level = 1 value = 25 }
land = { level = 1 value = 100 }
naval = { level = 1 value = 25 }
}
}Modifications to 1419_GEN_Genoa.inc:
Code:
# Genoa (Genua) #
country = {
tag = GEN
ai = "SmallCRC3.ai"
colonialattempts = 0
colonialnation = no
major = no
colonists = 0
cancelledloans = 0
extendedloans = 0
treasury = 492
inflation = 0
merchants = 6
religion = { type = catholic }
culture = { type = italian }
diplomacy = {
relation = { tag = BYZ value = 150 }
relation = { tag = VEN value = 75 }
relation = { tag = KAL value = -50 }
relation = { tag = CYP value = -50 access = yes } [COLOR=Yellow]
relation = { tag = ARG value = -100 }
relation = { tag = MLO value = 25 }[/COLOR]
}
knownprovinces = {
231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257
258 263 264 265 266 270 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297
298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328
329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359
360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390
391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421
422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 450 461 462 463 464 465 466
469 470 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 490 977 491 492 493 494 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740
741 742 744 745 746 805 806 817 819 820 821 840 867 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 916 917 918 919
920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988
989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015
1016 1017 1057 1058 1331 1361 1362 1469
836 837 838 868 918 1466 1055 1609 1610 1611 1612 1613
}
ownedprovinces = {
[COLOR=Red]398 [/COLOR]403 465
}
controlledprovinces = {
[COLOR=Red]398 [/COLOR]403 465
}
nationalprovinces = {
398 403
}
city = {
fortress = { level = 2 }
population = 65000
location = 403
capital = yes bailiff = yes
}[COLOR=Red]
city = {
fortress = { level = 1 }
population = 5500
location = 398
}[/COLOR]
city = {
fortress = { level = 1 }
population = 5500
location = 465
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 9423 id = 775 }
name = "Army of Genoa"
location = 403
infantry = 9000
cavalry = 1000
artillery = 0
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 9423 id = 777 }
name = "Fleet of Genoa"
location = 403
warships = 5
galleys = 25
transports = 5
}
technology = {
stability = { level = 2 value = 42 }
infra = { level = 2 value = 50 }
trade = { level = 3 value = 0 }
land = { level = 1 value = 0 }
naval = { level = 2 value = 0 }
}
}
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And here is a monarchs.cor file:
I will post the events between 1419 and 1436 tomorrow night as I want to test them one more time.
Any comments and suggestions are of course welcome.
Code:
# Corsican monarchs 035500-035999#
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 035500 }
startdate = {
year = 1416
}
deathdate = {
year = 1434
}
name = "Vincentellu d'Istria"
DIP = 6
MIL = 8
ADM = 3
remark= "Viceroy on behalf of Alfonso V"
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 035501 }
startdate = {
day = 27
month = april
year = 1434
}
deathdate = {
year = 1437
}
name = "Simone da Mare"
DIP = 5
MIL = 4
ADM = 4
dormant = no
remark= "Count of Corsica on behalf of Genoa"
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 035502 }
startdate = {
day = 27
month = april
year = 1434
}
deathdate = {
year = 1456
}
name = "Ghjudice d'Istria"
DIP = 4
MIL = 4
ADM = 5
dormant = yes
remark = "Vincentellu's nephew, Count of Corsica on behalf of Aragon"
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 035503 }
startdate = {
year = 1456
}
deathdate = {
year = 1475
}
name = "Ghjucante di Leca"
DIP = 3
MIL = 6
ADM = 4
dormant = yes
remark = "commanded the last aragonese attempt of landing in Corsica in 1461"
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 035504 }
startdate = {
day = 27
month = april
year = 1434
}
deathdate = {
year = 1475
}
name = "Paulu della Rocca"
DIP = 6
MIL = 7
ADM = 7
dormant = yes
remark = "Count of Corsica"
}I will post the events between 1419 and 1436 tomorrow night as I want to test them one more time.
Any comments and suggestions are of course welcome.
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Third Angel said:And here is a monarchs.cor file:Code:# Corsican monarchs 035500-035999# historicalmonarch = { id = { type = 6 id = 035500 } startdate = { year = 1416 } deathdate = { day = 27 month = april year = 1434 } name = "Vincentellu d'Istria" DIP = 5 MIL = 8 ADM = 4 remark= "Viceroy on behalf of Alfonso V" } historicalmonarch = { id = { type = 6 id = 035501 } startdate = { day = 28 month = april year = 1434 } deathdate = { year = 1437 } name = "Simone da Mare" DIP = 6 MIL = 3 ADM = 4 dormant = yes remark= "Count of Corsica on behalf of Genoa" } historicalmonarch = { id = { type = 6 id = 035502 } startdate = { day = 28 month = april year = 1434 } deathdate = { year = 1456 } name = "Ghjudice d'Istria" DIP = 4 MIL = 5 ADM = 5 dormant = yes remark = "Vincentellu's nephew, Count of Corsica on behalf of Aragon" } historicalmonarch = { id = { type = 6 id = 035503 } startdate = { year = 1456 } deathdate = { year = 1475 } name = "Ghjucante di Leca" DIP = 3 MIL = 6 ADM = 4 dormant = yes remark = "commanded the last aragonese attempt of landing in Corsica in 1461" } historicalmonarch = { id = { type = 6 id = 035504 } startdate = { day = 28 month = april year = 1434 } deathdate = { year = 1475 } name = "Paulu della Rocca" DIP = 6 MIL = 7 ADM = 6 dormant = no remark = "Count of Corsica" }
I will post the events between 1419 and 1436 tomorrow night as I want to test them one more time.
Any comments and suggestions are of course welcome.
Should you really use the Corsican spelling of their names? They where 'Foriegn' after all who where put into place by foriegn powers.