Norrefeldt said:
I find it reasonable to shorten the time for creating ITA. An enddate was never discussed when this sequence was done, don't know why. I guess we didn't have that kind of expertice around!
I would prefer ending the Guelf and Ghibelline ways in the 1650s, when the Edict of Tolerance event fires (was that when the HRE shrank in up to 1.08 when it became static?) 1559 for the treaty of Cateau-Cambrésis is less good IMO since the situation might make it not always occur in every game, while the Edict of Tolerance comes from the Pope and therefore is entirely deterministic. It's also a well known pivotal event in other ways for the game.
The Force majeur way could then end 1796 as you suggest.
See what I have found out in wikipedia (it seems confirmed by other historical sources)
With the end of the Lombard Kingdom in 772, its territory, along with the former Byzantine possessions in Northern Italy became a new Kingdom of Italy, sometimes called the Regnum Italicum or, in Italian, the Regno, which formed one of the constituent parts of the Holy Roman Empire. The Regno continued to exist, at least in theory, until the end of the Empire in 1806 (or, at least, until the Imperial reorganization of 1803), and the Archbishop of Cologne held the honorific title of Archchancellor of Italy, but the Imperial rule in Italy lost most of its force after the fall of the Hohenstaufen in the mid-13th century, and ceased to have any real meaning by the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648.
So the guelf/ghibelline ways ending in 1650s have their likely historical backing...
What about these improvements in descriptions concerning the first three events of the KoI sequence?
(for example in MLO events they would be EVENTHIST228002, EVENTHIST228007 and EVENTHIST228008 and then reused in MAN, PAM, SAV, TOS
and PAR )
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GUELF WAY
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EVENTHIST______;Since the fall of the Roman Empire the title of King of Italy was sometimes used by the barbarians chiefs who ruled over the Italian peninsula until the end of the Gothic Wars and the following invasion of the Lombards, who, establishing their own kingdom in 568, separated northern Italy from the territories directly controlled by the Eastern Roman Empire. In 774 the Pope Adrianus I, threatened by a renewed Lombard claim to the Patrimomium Petri (also known as the Duchy of Rome), called Carlemagne in Italy to protect him from the Lombard aggression, thus granting the Frankish King possession of the Kingdom of Lombards and the linked Duchy of Spoleto in exchange for the cession to the Pope of some Lombard held territories,the future Papal States. Venice, who nominally recognized the Byzantine sovereignty, and the southernmost Duchy of Benevento held their independence too. In 781 Charlemagne's son Pepin became the first King of Italy crowned by a Pope with the Corona Ferrea (iron crown) so called from a narrow band of iron within it, said to be beaten out of one of the nails used at the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Even if the Empire had usually suffered dynastic and feudal disputes, only after 888, with the extinction of the Carolingian dynasty and the anarchy that followed, the throne of Italy and the Imperial title were continuously contended by several claimants. And when in 962 Berengar, Marquis of Ivrea, one of the selfproclaimed Kings of Italy of those times, uncautiously tried to sieze the Papal States, Pope Johannes XII, as his predecessor did with the Franks before, invited Otto I, Duke of Saxony and King of the Germans, to descend Italy and to protect him in exchange for the title of Holy Roman Emperor (translatio imperii). Since then, excluding the short period 1002-1015 in which Arduino, Margrave of Ivrea, unsuccessfully tried to proclaim himself King of Italy and then forced to abandon his claims, the 'Regnum Italicum' (the Kingdom of Italy) was subsumed into the Holy Roman Empire. And now, after a period of expansion, we have finally gained dominance over the lands which represent the ancient medieval Kingdom of Italy. But in order to be acknowledged as Kings of Italy, we would need the official recognition of the Holy Roman Emperor, who held the rights to the title, or the Pope, who could crown us against the will of the Emperor. Our great relations and alliance with the Pope makes it possible that he will grant us the crown. We will offer him 100 ducats to help his Holiness go against the will of the Emperor.;;;;;;;;;;
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GHIBELLINE WAY
##############
EVENTHIST______;Since the fall of the Roman Empire the title of King of Italy was sometimes used by the barbarians chiefs who ruled over the Italian peninsula until the end of the Gothic Wars and the following invasion of the Lombards, who, establishing their own kingdom in 568, separated northern Italy from the territories directly controlled by the Eastern Roman Empire. In 774 the Pope Adrianus I, threatened by a renewed Lombard claim to the Patrimomium Petri (also known as the Duchy of Rome), called Carlemagne in Italy to protect him from the Lombard aggression, thus granting the Frankish King possession of the Kingdom of Lombards and the linked Duchy of Spoleto in exchange for the cession to the Pope of some Lombard held territories,the future Papal States. Venice, who nominally recognized the Byzantine sovereignty, and the southernmost Duchy of Benevento held their independence too. In 781 Charlemagne's son Pepin became the first King of Italy crowned by a Pope with the Corona Ferrea (iron crown) so called from a narrow band of iron within it, said to be beaten out of one of the nails used at the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Even if the Empire had usually suffered dynastic and feudal disputes, only after 888, with the extinction of the Carolingian dynasty and the anarchy that followed, the throne of Italy and the Imperial title were continuously contended by several claimants. And when in 962 Berengar, Marquis of Ivrea, one of the selfproclaimed Kings of Italy of those times, uncautiously tried to sieze the Papal States, Pope Johannes XII, as his predecessor did with the Franks before, invited Otto I, Duke of Saxony and King of the Germans, to descend Italy and to protect him in exchange for the title of Holy Roman Emperor (translatio imperii). Since then, excluding the short period 1002-1015 in which Arduino, Margrave of Ivrea, unsuccessfully tried to proclaim himself King of Italy and then forced to abandon his claims, the 'Regnum Italicum' (the Kingdom of Italy) was subsumed into the Holy Roman Empire. And now, after a period of expansion, we have finally gained dominance over the lands which represent the ancient medieval Kingdom of Italy. But in order to be acknowledged as Kings of Italy, we would need the official recognition of the Holy Roman Emperor, who held the rights to the title, or the Pope. Our great relations and alliance with the Habsburgs makes it possible that they will grant us the crown. We will offer the Emperor lavish gifts worth 500 ducats to convince him to hand over the title.;;;;;;;;;;
#################
FORCE MAJEURE WAY
#################
EVENTHIST______;Since the fall of the Roman Empire the title of King of Italy was sometimes used by the barbarians chiefs who ruled over the Italian peninsula until the end of the Gothic Wars and the following invasion of the Lombards, who, establishing their own kingdom in 568, separated northern Italy from the territories directly controlled by the Eastern Roman Empire. In 774 the Pope Adrianus I, threatened by a renewed Lombard claim to the Patrimomium Petri (also known as the Duchy of Rome), called Carlemagne in Italy to protect him from the Lombard aggression, thus granting the Frankish King possession of the Kingdom of Lombards and the linked Duchy of Spoleto in exchange for the cession to the Pope of some Lombard held territories,the future Papal States. Venice, who nominally recognized the Byzantine sovereignty, and the southernmost Duchy of Benevento held their independence too. In 781 Charlemagne's son Pepin became the first King of Italy crowned by a Pope with the Corona Ferrea (iron crown) so called from a narrow band of iron within it, said to be beaten out of one of the nails used at the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Even if the Empire had usually suffered dynastic and feudal disputes, only after 888, with the extinction of the Carolingian dynasty and the anarchy that followed, the throne of Italy and the Imperial title were continuously contended by several claimants. And when in 962 Berengar, Marquis of Ivrea, one of the selfproclaimed Kings of Italy of those times, uncautiously tried to sieze the Papal States, Pope Johannes XII, as his predecessor did with the Franks before, invited Otto I, Duke of Saxony and King of the Germans, to descend Italy and to protect him in exchange for the title of Holy Roman Emperor (translatio imperii). Since then, excluding the short period 1002-1015 in which Arduino, Margrave of Ivrea, unsuccessfully tried to proclaim himself King of Italy and then forced to abandon his claims, the 'Regnum Italicum' (the Kingdom of Italy) was subsumed into the Holy Roman Empire. And now, after a period of expansion, we have finally gained dominance over the lands which represent the ancient medieval Kingdom of Italy. My lord, having also vassalized Austria and put the Pope under your boot, there is now no obstacle in our path to claim the crown of the Kingdom of Italy as part of the Holy Roman Empire. Shall we start preparations for your coronation?;;;;;;;;;;