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There has been discussion of a Italian Unification overat the EEP forum, and I belive there is something similar at AGC.

Is it possibel to convince those people to gather up here?

I would realy like to see those event strings implemented in AGC-EEP.
 

Jester

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I agree, I am all for fantasy-unification events.

Late,
Jester
 

Sute]{h

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I for one like the idea, but the events should be like a carrot for unifying Italy. They shouldn't make it easier or cheaper (by giving shields on unconquered territories for example). In my opion they should simply trigger if one manages to unify to country.
 

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Originally posted by Sute]{h
I for one like the idea, but the events should be like a carrot for unifying Italy. They shouldn't make it easier or cheaper (by giving shields on unconquered territories for example). In my opion they should simply trigger if one manages to unify to country.

I agree, this is how Barbele's events work.

LAte,
Jester
 

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I agree, but what about Rome? A country owning Rome with tag other than PAP gets really serious penalties (low relations, a lot of CB aginst him...). Is it possible to "revive" a tag, for example, Tuscany conquers all italian lands, and when it turns to Italy it gets the tag PAP, becouse the papal states are destroyed? I guess no, so how to deal with this situation? Is there a command that takes away a CB? If there is, than there could be an event for Italy, that would take away CBs all catholic nations have thorwards it, and improve relations (this is to be done on a regular basis, as relations will drop down to +25 in couple of years.)?
 

Sute]{h

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The easiest way out of this is to make Rome the exceptance. You don't have to own Rome to become Italy, and you won't receive a shield on Rome. This could be realistic considering the power of the catholic church at the time.
 

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Due to the constraints of the game, we would need to leave Rome seperate, this could be seen as representing the Vatican and it's surroundings.
AFAIK there is now way to work around the negatives assoicated with owning Rome, unless the Papal States own Italy.

Late,
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I agree with Jester, the hard coded negatives make it undesirable to own Rome (unless in a WC game). And in regards to Italian unification not really required as noted earlier. Of course owning it makes the map look better. :)

I agree the catholic church was weak in northern Germany during the time following Luther theses, but what indicators are you using to say the church was weak in Italy at the time? Rome was sacked by big Chuck the Five as I recall, but that in itself doesn't mean the church was weak. Am I missing something?
 

Jester

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no matter how weak the church was, it was never absorbed and abolished. Keeping Rome (Papal States) as a vassal as opposed to being annexed would represent the Papacy and their holy city. The Pope would be in your back pocket, as opposed to being in your dungeon.

maybe an event for the new united Italy, that has the Papal States as a Vassal. The event would give you some increased taxes in the lands surrounding Rome, to indicate that you auctually do control the majority of the Roman province, while the pope is left with the Vatican itself.

Late,
Jester
 

Sute]{h

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Originally posted by Barbalele
I disagree. In some timeframe (do you remember Luther?) catholic church was really weak.

But in Italy (and Spain) he was the Pope was quite strong. What relevance does the northern reformation have on an Italian unification? Italy is the heartland of the catholic church.
 
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During the time of reformation Catholic was not so strong in italy.
Heresia took the way of italian traders to italian cities, and it was hard times to eradicate this from our country. In the Councill of Trento there was a big discussion between 2 parties inside the catholic church. One wanted to change curch view and go torward a spiritual politics trying to find an agreement with heretics on a nearer basis, the other party opposed this view and won and lead to inquisition and other "nice" things.
In this timeframe with such a splitted and weak church a former italian country with Rome in it's hands would surely be able to find an agreement with the Pope, to help him in those religious things, to keep italy fully catholic and maybe the spiritual party could won instead the conservative.
That's the point. Total alternative history but anyway possible.

Edit: but impossible in game terms.
 
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I Killed Kenny

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After luther... An event should happer to the KoI...


A new tipe of catolisim was happer... It's anti-pope if we enter this new church we can use the excuse to enter papal lands, and maybe.. conquer Rome in the Name of the Kingdom of Italy..

This should be Action B:

A cb agaist papal states for 25 years
A CB on Rome... ( I know doble CB ;) )
Change religion
+3 RR for 25 years
+1 centralization
+5 BB
-100 with all the normal catolic countries

After this if in 25 years they don't control ROME:
The plan to capture rome was failed... The population didn't like the new state religion.. the revolts are all over the Kingdom we most poll back...

This should be Action A

No more CB on Rome
back to catolisim
-3 RR
-1 Centralization
-5 BB
+50 with all the normal catolic countries
-100 with all of the normal protestant countries


After 25 years if they control ROME:
YOu make this ;)

The DESC: aren't perfect... they are just some simpel ideas...
 

Jester

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Originally posted by I_Killed-Kenny
After luther... An event should happer to the KoI...


A new tipe of catolisim was happer... It's anti-pope if we enter this new church we can use the excuse to enter papal lands, and maybe.. conquer Rome in the Name of the Kingdom of Italy..


speaking of Anti-Popes. I have just thought of a series of alternate history events concerning the last Anti-Pope. the last Anti-Pope was elected by the Council of Basel in 1439. He was the then ruler of the Dukedom of Savoy, who renounced his name and became Felix the fifth. He reigned as an Anti-Pope from 1439-1449. At which point he was reconcilied with the Papacy and given a position as a cardinal.

What if he had not reconcilied, but instead tried to oust the existing pope and become the new pope. Thus installing The House of Savoy as an alternate line of Popes..? And with Savoy at the head of the papacy, I think they would definitely have eyes on bringing the rest of Italy into the fold.

Sound interesting to anyone?

Late,
Jester
 

I Killed Kenny

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Originally posted by Jester
speaking of Anti-Popes. I have just thought of a series of alternate history events concerning the last Anti-Pope. the last Anti-Pope was elected by the Council of Basel in 1439. He was the then ruler of the Dukedom of Savoy, who renounced his name and became Felix the fifth. He reigned as an Anti-Pope from 1439-1449. At which point he was reconcilied with the Papacy and given a position as a cardinal.

What if he had not reconcilied, but instead tried to oust the existing pope and become the new pope. Thus installing The House of Savoy as an alternate line of Popes..? And with Savoy at the head of the papacy, I think they would definitely have eyes on bringing the rest of Italy into the fold.

Sound interesting to anyone?

Late,
Jester

but you will also need to change religion.. so you don't have the negative factors... ;)
 

Jester

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Auctually what I am proposing is that if Savoy manages to conquer the Papal States they can then assume the mantle of the Papals States. But with their leaders as the Popes. And since they were a secular nation that ssumed the Papacy they would have designs on holding all theri italian possesions together, and perhaps owning the rest of Italy. They woudl be the Kingdom of Italy in all but name. Why would they need to change their name after all?

Little Alternative History series of events.

Late,
Jester
 

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Originally posted by Jester
speaking of Anti-Popes. I have just thought of a series of alternate history events concerning the last Anti-Pope. the last Anti-Pope was elected by the Council of Basel in 1439. He was the then ruler of the Dukedom of Savoy, who renounced his name and became Felix the fifth. He reigned as an Anti-Pope from 1439-1449. At which point he was reconcilied with the Papacy and given a position as a cardinal.

What if he had not reconcilied, but instead tried to oust the existing pope and become the new pope. Thus installing The House of Savoy as an alternate line of Popes..? And with Savoy at the head of the papacy, I think they would definitely have eyes on bringing the rest of Italy into the fold.

Sound interesting to anyone?

Late,
Jester

How's this hereditary Papacy going to work? Admittedly Amadeus V had a son and grandson, but I don't really see that the council of Basel would have allowed clerical marriage.

It's an interesting idea. But you need to keep in mind that the council of Basel had as it's primary goal establishing councilar primacy over the papacy. If it had been sucessful the Catholic church would be quite different from what it became. And the 'reformed' papacy would have been an awful launching pad for an ecclesiastical domination of Italy, because the Pope would have been subordinated to the councils.
 

I Killed Kenny

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Originally posted by Jester
Auctually what I am proposing is that if Savoy manages to conquer the Papal States they can then assume the mantle of the Papals States. But with their leaders as the Popes. And since they were a secular nation that ssumed the Papacy they would have designs on holding all theri italian possesions together, and perhaps owning the rest of Italy. They woudl be the Kingdom of Italy in all but name. Why would they need to change their name after all?

Little Alternative History series of events.

Late,
Jester


I just imagine my events in a way to handel the rome problem... nothing else... ;)
 

Jester

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Originally posted by I_Killed-Kenny
I just imagine my events in a way to handel the rome problem... nothing else... ;)

Well, the Kingdom of Italy embracing a different religion and then conquering Rome, woudl not really solve the problem of the permanent CB while in control of Rome. But I do see your justification for it. It would also require a NEW religion to be created which would mean an exisitng one has to be shelved.

There is no way to get rid of the hard coded fact that anyone controlling Rome that does not have the PAP tag will have a permanent CB on it from all Catholic countries.

Late,
Jester