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Mad King James

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Ireland is just...wrong.

Ok there are several ways to represent Ireland, and the one in EU2 is the worst. I see 2 real possibilities..

1: The high king of Ireland was the King of England. If we're going to represent Ireland as one state under the high king, we're a lot better off just giving it wholesale to England.

2: If we're going to represent Ireland accurately however, we need to make a bunch of Irish states who are vassals of, but not allied with, England. As this will take at least 3 new tags, you probably will want to go with option 1.

If not however...
ireland.jpg
 

Norrefeldt

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Given these two options I'd go for 1 any day, since otherwise we'll see Irish states in all sorts of alliances and an island eventually divided by England, France, Scotland, Aragon and you name it. 2 cannot be an option.
I think I have seen events in EEP taking into account the regional incoherence, for a state struggling to form. To get a common legal code etc.
 
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The problem I have with this is Eire is one of my favorite nations to play.
 

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Originally posted by The Captain
The problem I have with this is Eire is one of my favorite nations to play.

I know man, but it's an anacronysm, Ireland STILL isn't united into a single state, and it's 2003 for chrissake ;)
 

unmerged(6828)

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I think that option 1 with high revolt risks would be more accurate in the long run than several small states
 

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Originally posted by mnorrefeldt
Given these two options I'd go for 1 any day, since otherwise we'll see Irish states in all sorts of alliances and an island eventually divided by England, France, Scotland, Aragon and you name it. 2 cannot be an option.
I think I have seen events in EEP taking into account the regional incoherence, for a state struggling to form. To get a common legal code etc.

I know what you mean abut Eire being divided up between other powers....it seems to always happen every game, due to Ireland getting into stupid alliances, and the ability of the AI's attritionaless navies. An interesting solution that I think might work to solve this problem is done in the Mongolian Empire Scenario. The island of Eire there is covered by Terra Incognito for most of the countries of Europe. (except Scotland, England) This seems to work well, and I would suggest it for the AGCEEP.

Late,
Jester
 

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The problem with modelling Ireland is, at 1419, there wasn't an Irish state and there wasn't English control over Ireland. The best way to model would be:
-Give England Meath
-Have a nation of Ireland in the rest of Ireland and have it vassalized to England.
-Give it event effects for chaos, like +10 RR for like 70 years, complete decentralization, -3 stability, etc.
-After these 70 years there should be some sort of unification choice like -
-attempt to unify Irish people (-6 stability, massive RR, war with England because England wouldn't want that and England owns Meath)
-Yield to English superiority (+2 stability) - add Irish provinces to English cores (the cores represent a nations claims, not whether or not the areas would really like English rule)

However, for ALL Irish provinces, have constant RR for anyone controlling them.

I know it would be incredibly hard to survive as Ireland, but I think its possible. Its easy to survive RR and instability as a minor, and war with england can be assisted with an alliance and smart playing.

Ireland and Scotland should have fantasy "unification events". Like if Scotland conquers Ireland or vice versa you could have "The Gaelic Unification". It would give cores on Ireland if you're Scotland or vice versa. I know this seems odd now, but, at the time, Scots and Irish were quite united in hatred for the English. Edward the Bruce, brother of Robert the Bruce, attempted to take Ireland and had Irish support. However, the Welsh and Brittany were NOT Gaelic at all and were from an entirely different branch. The culture shouldn't even be the same.
 
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How about making Ireland covered with ferocious natives and claimed by English trading posts?
 

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Well then it would be altogether impossible for Ireland to form and Anglosaxon would end up being the culture of the island in like 5/6 games. My idea or the idea of England controlling it with incredible RR are the best ways to attempt it. However, if the tags were available, 3 separate Irish nations and a british Meath would be perfect, but I dont see how it could be done.
 
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Where would we get these three tags?
 

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Thats exactly my point. So I think its better to show the other 3 provinces as one Ireland, but just have lots of RR and civil wars, complete Decentralization, income loss, etc etc. Basically, I think events should make Eire a chaos state, not a real state.
 

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Originally posted by Phystarstk
Well then it would be altogether impossible for Ireland to form and Anglosaxon would end up being the culture of the island in like 5/6 games. My idea or the idea of England controlling it with incredible RR are the best ways to attempt it. However, if the tags were available, 3 separate Irish nations and a british Meath would be perfect, but I dont see how it could be done.

I think we'd see more cultures than Anglosaxon on Ireland, perhaps Iberian? And I don't share your view that several states would be perfect. The *setup* might be the best, but it will lead to results that are far from good, and even more non-historical behaviour and occupants than we have now.

Hiding it under terra incognita feels strange as well, a player should be able to attack it.
 

Mad King James

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...thus my point that it should probably just be English. The English ruled Ireland in name if not in fact by 1419.
 

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Originally posted by Mad King James
...thus my point that it should probably just be English. The English ruled Ireland in name if not in fact by 1419.

but still there should be *something* showing that it wasn't under control very much (lower base tax? events? RR?)
and perhaps (just as "free wales") a "free ireland" option for those who REALLY want to play ireland
 

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It just plain wasn't a unified state though. Where to put the capital? I mean putting it in Ulster is one solution, except Ulster was the very first Irish kingdom to sell out completely to the English by 1500...
 

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Maybe have rebels control all but Meath at the start of the game, but have England own the provinces (or is it vice versa? eh, you get the idea). Also, have high RR in all the provinces but Meath.
 

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There are scripted events already for the Irish rebellions, I think we should just give the provinces to England..
 
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Originally posted by Languish
Agreed, it seems stupid to divide it up.

What if someone wanted to play Eire?