• Victoria 3 - Sign up now!

    The journey begins, sign up now and get a special in-game item when the game is released.


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
  • Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


Twoflower

Vile treacherous Judas
83 Badges
Nov 7, 2001
3.929
2.299
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • For The Glory
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
I'm quite aware of the old Indo-Persia thread, but I think it has somewhat a too broad scope, both India and Persia certainly deserve their own threads :) The Indian setup is still fairly awful for anybody who has ever looked at a real historical map of India - which is to a large extent due to the fact that there has always been a shortage of tags and thus inaccurate abstractions and complete errors were introduced for the sake of tag economy. However now that there are more than enough tags at our disposal, it is definitely time to try to create a truly accurate, balanced and playable setup in India. This will obviously require some work and discussion. I will summarize the results in this initial post as we progress along. Things that ought to be done are:

- Figure a setup in 1419 (including of course mostly which new countries need to be introduced for a good starting setup)
- agree on which additional countries ought to be introduced as revolters (which are going to be pretty many if we want to represent the breakup of the Bahmanids and Vijayanagar in a somewhat realistic way)
- Work out major events, leader, monarch and AI files and other stuff (like especially the cultural and religious setup) for the Indian countries
- Create events for the acquisition of European possessions in India, and generally for the relations between Indian states and Europeans
- Include stuff that has already been posted, but never got in until now (like the events that Khephren has scripted for Lanka)

Note that I am relatively ignorant on the subject and basically just wanted to get the ball rolling since nobody else seemed interested in this anymore, hence I will definitely need some input from the true experts :)
 
Last edited:

Twoflower

Vile treacherous Judas
83 Badges
Nov 7, 2001
3.929
2.299
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • For The Glory
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
1419 setup

Just a few initial thoughts on the 1419 setup (have a look at this nice map )

  • Mysore shouldn't really start independent. Mysore was just one among many small feudatory states subject to Vijayanagar, and unless we want to completely fragment the Vijayanagar territories it ought to be part of a (pretty decentralised and aristocratic) Vijayanagar empire. The Fall of the City of Victory event should release Mysore (and probably some other states as well)
  • As is explained in text.csv, Paradox wants Hyderabad to represent all the states that occupied the area in the north of the Deccan over the centuries. It is however quite strange to have a state named after a city that didn't even exist in 1419, and I think it would be quite nice to have the Bahmanid Empire (or call it "Bahmanids") in 1419, and let Hyderabad revolt into existance only later, since then it would actually be possible to try to keep together the Bahmanid state instead of letting it disintegrate.
  • Telingana, which was a Hindu state that fought the (muslim) Bahmanids together with Vijayanagar until being annexed by the Bahmanids in 1425, could exist in 1419, however I'm unsure whether it wouldn't be better to not waste a tag for a country that existed for only 6 years and instead give the provinces in question (Yanam and Palakimedi) to the Bahmanids already in 1419
  • Gujarat is way too powerful right now. Sindh was an ancient, quite powerful and important independent state that definitely should be in the game and own Sindh and Indus. Kutch was never owned by Gujarat, either, and should either be independent or part of Rajputana (it was ruled by Rajput princes, and wasn't really that much of a powerful entity on its own). Gujarat should own just Gujarat and Bombay.
  • Gondwana is an area that is in several ways comparable to Rajputana, being inhabited by pretty independent-minded people, the Gonds, that for a long time successfully withstood any foreign domination, and ruled by several small princes that maintained a loose alliance against threats from the outside. The provinces that constitute this area (IMO, for the sake of having correct borders, Gondwana, Bastar and Sambalpur) should be owned by an independent country of Gondwana, and perhaps have their own culture as well.
  • I never understood why Nepal is not an independent country. It definitely ought to be.
  • Jaunpur, which was originally a principality given to the eunuch Sarwar who had conquered Awadh for the Sultan of Delhi and overthrew the sovereignity of Delhi during Timur's invasion, should be an independent state owning Tirhut and Koch
  • Khandesh, which was an important opponent of Gujarat, might be an independent country - if the province represents Khandesh it definitely should be. It could as well be part of the Bahmanid state (as can be seen on the map posted above), however I'd prefer to have independent Khandesh since it was rather active (besides keeping Gujarat in check quite effectively, it was also one of the countries that participated in the destruction of Vijayanagar) and since the Bahmanids should not border Rajputana (which might have bad consequences, especially wars between the two).

Hence, I'd suggest the following setup (I'd love to be able to post a screenshot with the changes applied:( ):

Vijayanagar: Bangalore, Madras, Mangalore, Mysore, Kerala, Cochin, Trivandrum, Madurai, Pondicherry
Bahmanids: Hyderabad, Maharashtra, Goa, Yanam, Palakimedi
Khandesh: Khandesh
Gondwana: Gondwana, Bastar, Sambalpur
Rajputana: Malwa, Rajputana, Bikaner, Kutch
Gujarat: Gujarat, Bombay
Sindh: Sindh, Indus
Delhi: Thar, Panjab, Chandigahr, Delhi, Bundelkhand, Awadh, Raipur
Jaunpur: Tirhut, Koch
Nepal: Nepal
Bengal: Howrah, Ganges, Bihar, Santal
Orissa: Odisa, Berhampur
 
Last edited:

Khephren

Watery Tart
23 Badges
Mar 29, 2003
1.285
2
  • Victoria 2
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • 500k Club
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Iron Cross
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
I would agree to most of this, but I think that Panjab should be independent....most likely a vassal of Delhi. And everything I've read has suggested that Malabar ( Kerala) and Travancore were independent. I would even suggest an additional COT in Kerala to disappear when Goa opens. Calicut was a very important international port at this period.

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/vipin/www/kozhikode.html

http://kerala-history.nrksite.com/history4.htm

http://www.kerala.cc/keralahistory/index21.htm
 

Twoflower

Vile treacherous Judas
83 Badges
Nov 7, 2001
3.929
2.299
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • For The Glory
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
Khephren said:
I would agree to most of this, but I think that Panjab should be independent....most likely a vassal of Delhi. And everything I've read has suggested that Malabar ( Kerala) and Travancore were independent. I would even suggest an additional COT in Kerala to disappear when Goa opens. Calicut was a very important international port at this period.

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/vipin/www/kozhikode.html

http://kerala-history.nrksite.com/history4.htm

http://www.kerala.cc/keralahistory/index21.htm
For what reason should Panjab be an independent vassal of Delhi?
Agree with your suggestions on the south, probably Cochin could be an independent country as well. This would also adress concerns on Vijayanagar being too strong (which it currently is).
 

Mad King James

Buzzkill Extraordinaire
66 Badges
Jan 18, 2002
7.148
300
40
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
Going to have to second the point about Malabar, but also add Cochin. In the south Vijayangar didn't actually own much land, it was more a power in the east and southern Deccan.

Calicut, Cochin, Venad and Mysore should all be independent IMHO

We should add in the Deccan breakaway states too. Bidar, Bijapur, Amadnagar, Berar and Golkonda. (though we probably don't have provinces for all of them...)

I'd like to second the inclusion of Nepal as well. Bizarre that it wasn't included in vanilla EU2
 

Khephren

Watery Tart
23 Badges
Mar 29, 2003
1.285
2
  • Victoria 2
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • 500k Club
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Iron Cross
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
Twoflower said:
For what reason should Panjab be an independent vassal of Delhi?
Nevermind, I was thinking of Kashmir...but actually Kashmir isn't really representable as it's in the TI. :eek:o But it would be nice if Punjab was back on the revolter list like it used to be.
 

Khephren

Watery Tart
23 Badges
Mar 29, 2003
1.285
2
  • Victoria 2
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • 500k Club
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Iron Cross
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II

unmerged(2456)

Pure Evil Genius
Mar 29, 2001
11.211
0
www.hero6.com
Khephren said:
Nevermind, I was thinking of Kashmir...but actually Kashmir isn't really representable as it's in the TI. :eek:o But it would be nice if Punjab was back on the revolter list like it used to be.
Yes it definatly should be.
Although i think paradox originally intended Kashmir to be part of the map.
 

Twoflower

Vile treacherous Judas
83 Badges
Nov 7, 2001
3.929
2.299
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • For The Glory
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
Regarding the breakup of the Bahmanids:
Actually for the purpose of breaking up the Bahmanids in a sensible way, it might be better to not include an independent Khandesh and instead give the province to the Bahmanids, since then upon their disintegration, Khandesh could become the capital province of Ahmadnagar and Maharashtra the capital province of Bijapur - if Ahmadnagar has to be placed in Maharashtra, Bijapur could only have Goa, which is sorta bad since the province is supposed to become Portuguese only a few years later. Also Bombay should probably be a Bahmanid province that can be given to Ahmadnagar - since Ahmadnagar should be a two provincer and should have access to the sea.

The historical option of the first disintegration of the Bahmanid Sultanate event in 1489 would then (besides giving all ahistorical conquests to their "correct" owners) create the following states:
  • Ahmadnagar in Khandesh and Bombay
  • Bijapur in Maharashtra and Goa
The second disintegration of the Bahmanid Sultanate event would make the Bahmanids, who are supposed to have held unto Hyderabad and Yanam (I think the north of the former territories of Telingana, i.e. the province of Palakimedi, was in some way seized by Orissa) turn into Hyderabad - actually what emerged was the Sultanate of Golconda, but the city of Hyderabad is close to the city of Golconda and was founded by the Sultan of Golconda, thus this is not too much of a stretch IMO (at least not enough to justify using two different tags for Hyderabad and Golconda).
 

unmerged(31425)

Married Man
Jul 2, 2004
2.826
0
Interesting ideas, I have been reading alot of sources lately for India in the early 16th century as well as looking up information about various kingdoms of that time on the internet. From what I've read the province of kutch should be owned by Gujurat and the culture there should be gujurati too. If this is wrong please give me some information about it, because I'm intersted in knowing. Also check the time frame for your sources too I'm pretty sure the first 1/3 of the game Kutch should belong to Gujurat. It's powerful because it was powerful. Although in most of the games I play, Rajputana or Vyaganagar beat the crap out of it pretty soon. Vyanagar seems too powerful to me. I don't know about Sindh and Indus though but I'll take your word for it, since it's not contrary to anything I've read yet. The gujuratis were the main merchants in the Indian Ocean though. It seems silly to me to take their market from them. Ive wrote alot more about Gujurat and province commodity changes too, I won't repeat it here but it's located in the Portugal and Indian Ocean nations thread that I started. Calicut should be an independant nation called Calicut same with Cochin. And Trivandrum was an independant nation too called Travancore(or Venad). Here is a link to back up these claims
http://www.kerala.cc/keralahistory/index21.htm
Also Mysore should be an independant country but a vassal of Vyanagar. Just like it is at present. Heres a link for this too
http://www.mysore.net/history.htm
Otherwise I think I agree with all your sugestions about Indian nations. hopefully if these changes are made and Vyanaagar is split up, India will remain divided for a while longer. Instead of 1 or 2 nations becoming really powerful early which is how it seems to play out usually now.
 

doktarr

Wet Blanket
16 Badges
Aug 3, 2003
2.071
33
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
idontlikeforms said:
hopefully if these changes are made and Vyanaagar is split up, India will remain divided for a while longer. Instead of 1 or 2 nations becoming really powerful early which is how it seems to play out usually now.
Making that a reality is going to require a clever balancing act. If the German situation teaches us anything, it's that a collection of small states are inherently unstable in the EU2 engine.

My suggestion is that if we can find any halfway-plausible justification for creating a web of alliances, royal marriages, and vassalges, we do so. We should also give nations that were historically peaceful very good relations with their neighbors, as to better avoid wars.

And still, it will need a lot of playtesting to work out.
 

Arilou

Irken Tallest
99 Badges
Aug 24, 2002
8.132
465
Visit site
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • King Arthur II
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
Another might-be problem will be that if the Mughals are weak they'll have an even harder time now: Many small states=Hordes of BB, hordes of BB=many civil wars as of the latest patch.
 

Yakman

City of Washington, District of Columbia
26 Badges
Jan 5, 2004
6.213
5.074
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Deus Vult
  • For The Glory
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • 500k Club
The Mughals need more cores. Every emperor up to Aurungzeb should add cores to the country. This should promote historical rates of expansion.
 

unmerged(2456)

Pure Evil Genius
Mar 29, 2001
11.211
0
www.hero6.com
Yakman said:
The Mughals need more cores. Every emperor up to Aurungzeb should add cores to the country. This should promote historical rates of expansion.
Only for the AI unless they can be historically justified which they can in some cases. But under Aurungzeb cores should be removed as well.
 

unmerged(2456)

Pure Evil Genius
Mar 29, 2001
11.211
0
www.hero6.com
One of the main reasons Gunjarat is so powerful is because they have a COT. Really militaristically Rajputana should start out on a relatively even field, but over time Rajputana should become more powerful until the Mughuls. They were the most powerful nation in India powerful enough at the time of the invastion.

Either that or perhaps make Gunjarat vassal of Rajputana with giving Rajputana cores on Gunjarat but not bombay. This would simulate as Twoflower mentioned the fact they were fuled by the Rakput princes and also help curb their power a bit.
 

Yakman

City of Washington, District of Columbia
26 Badges
Jan 5, 2004
6.213
5.074
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Deus Vult
  • For The Glory
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • 500k Club
Jinnai said:
Only for the AI unless they can be historically justified which they can in some cases. But under Aurungzeb cores should be removed as well.
Indeed. The fall of the Mughals needs reworking.
 

Incompetent

Euroweenie in Exile
53 Badges
Sep 22, 2003
8.149
5.462
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • For The Glory
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
doktarr said:
Making that a reality is going to require a clever balancing act. If the German situation teaches us anything, it's that a collection of small states are inherently unstable in the EU2 engine.

My suggestion is that if we can find any halfway-plausible justification for creating a web of alliances, royal marriages, and vassalges, we do so. We should also give nations that were historically peaceful very good relations with their neighbors, as to better avoid wars.

And still, it will need a lot of playtesting to work out.

How effective is 'war = 0' in stopping ahistorical violence?
 

unmerged(17977)

Private
Jul 3, 2003
17
0
Visit site
I highly agree with a Nepal- Hindi, Hindu state.

Assam should be Hindu as in the original game. Changed to Buddhist in AGC.

Lanka should have a unique sinhalese culture. It is NOT dravidian, its language is closer to Hindi than Tamil.

Mysore fought too many decisive battles vs. UK to be excluded. It should start out as Hindu and Kannada culture.

The Kerala state(s) can have a Malayalam group. Start as vassals of Vijayanagar.

Panjab independent or vassal of Moghal after the birth of Sikhism. It should have a Punjabi (not Sikh) culture group.

An event needs to form the Maratha nations as a revolt from the Moghals. Say if Moghals occupy Maharashtra, Bombay, etc. by ~1650 Shivaji revolts.

Orissa needs a separate Oriya culture group. It makes it too easy when Bengal invades it.

Sind ought to be Independent. Please if Sindi culture not available then add it w/ Hindi culture.