AGC-EEP: Iberian Peninsula

[Archaalen]

I notice there hasn't been a thread on this area yet. I have a few questions on what's going on here. First, what is being done with the Basque provinces in the north? How many of them are there, and does Navarre get CB shields on them? Are there any events scripted for a (fantasy) revived Kingdom of Navarre? What about Granada? Would it be possible, if the Muslims reconquered Spain, for them to discover the New World? Will there be an event for the publishing of Don Quixote? Is it possible for Austria and Spain to have a permanent union, or at least vassalage? Does Portugal get a chance to not merge with Spain? Is there any way to prevent Portugal from losing provinces on the mainland to Spain? Sorry for so many disorgainzed questions, but I'm curious about this region. I haven't played any games there recently.

 

[Rhodz]

The Don Quixote and Austrian vassalage to Spain events already exist in the EEP

 

[Garbon]

I always thought that Iberia was to fall under Tarleton's Western Europe, but I don't think I ever got confirmation of that.

 

[Twoflower]

One important thing to review is the point at which Spain inherits Aragon. Right now, one quite frequent annoyance in EEP (don't know whether it's the same in AGC or vanilla EU2) is Spain diplo-annexing Aragon around 1500, thus missing out on the additional shields it gets from the inheritance event in 1516 and the inheritance of Burgundy that in EEP 1.41 is triggered on the Spain is united event (this trigger was however removed in EEP 1.42). Also, Aragon is not really able to have much of an impact in the early Italian wars, being a vassal of Castile and lacking the leaders, especially El Gran Capitan, who participated in its campaigns; a united Spain would almost certainly be able to take a more effective part. Therefore it might be a good idea to unite Spain already in 1477. The main problem about it would imo be that Castile was for two years, between 1504 and 1506, separate, ruled by Philipp the Handsome and Juana la Loca. This could be solved by either ignoring the two years or (probably better) just having Spain cede the Castilian provinces to Burgundy in 1504 and return them in 1506.

 

[unmerged(12680)]

Originally posted by Twoflower
One important thing to review is the point at which Spain inherits Aragon. Right now, one quite frequent annoyance in EEP (don't know whether it's the same in AGC or vanilla EU2) is Spain diplo-annexing Aragon around 1500, thus missing out on the additional shields it gets from the inheritance event in 1516 and the inheritance of Burgundy that in EEP 1.41 is triggered on the Spain is united event (this trigger was however removed in EEP 1.42). Also, Aragon is not really able to have much of an impact in the early Italian wars, being a vassal of Castile and lacking the leaders, especially El Gran Capitan, who participated in its campaigns; a united Spain would almost certainly be able to take a more effective part. Therefore it might be a good idea to unite Spain already in 1477. The main problem about it would imo be that Castile was for two years, between 1504 and 1506, separate, ruled by Philipp the Handsome and Juana la Loca. This could be solved by either ignoring the two years or (probably better) just having Spain cede the Castilian provinces to Burgundy in 1504 and return them in 1506.

As BUR wouldn't exist at that time I guess we would have to make them revoltable in Iberia? No biggie though, we can always make them revolt=no so nothing crazy happens. But remember that 2 years is a looong time for the AI to mess things up with crazy DoWs and God knows what.

Perhaps simply wastly reduced centralization and tax/manpower in the relevant provinces, which is then ragained in 1506 would be less risky?

 

[Twoflower]

Originally posted by anti_strunt
As BUR wouldn't exist at that time I guess we would have to make them revoltable in Iberia? No biggie though, we can always make them revolt=no so nothing crazy happens. But remember that 2 years is a looong time for the AI to mess things up with crazy DoWs and God knows what.

Perhaps simply wastly reduced centralization and tax/manpower in the relevant provinces, which is then ragained in 1506 would be less risky?

Err, Burgundy would - or at least is supposed to - exist at that time. By the EEP event scheme that I suppose we are continuing to use for the merger they become a vassal of Austria in 1477 (by the A choice) and are inherited by Spain in 1517.

 

[unmerged(12680)]

Originally posted by Twoflower
Err, Burgundy would - or at least is supposed to - exist at that time. By the EEP event scheme that I suppose we are continuing to use for the merger they become a vassal of Austria in 1477 (by the A choice) and are inherited by Spain in 1517.

Oh You don't say... well OK then. But still, how about massive decentralization and loss of tax/manpower instead?

 

[Mad King James]

AGC had quite a bit of idiotproofing on that front actually, to make damn sure that whoever became Spain got their cores. There's about 5 seperate instances of 'The Kingdoms are One'..

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Which is a good approach, I think. Well once the decision is made that Aragon should get those cores.

I think the existance of BUR in 1506 should also be open to discussion. The beta merge was never intended to settle those sorts of questions, but rather to provide insight into them.

 

[Archaalen]

Sounds fine to me. What about Navarre? Anything interesting happening there? Anything happening there at all? What I mean is, do they have any events? (Other than being inherited by Spain)

 

[Mad King James]

Navarra should be rather interesting actually, with the whole issue of Foix. Sadly Navarra never manages to act historically, since Spain *always* annexes them militarily. (and I mean always!)

 

[Archaalen]

Why not have them be allies? I know, that's not historical, but they were important in the Reconquista. It'd help keep 'em alive.

 

[Twoflower]

Something needs to be done about the Iberian alliances, but an alliance between Navarra and Castile would be plain wrong; actually they fought each other in the 15th century. It would make some sense to have Navarra and Aragon allied after 1425 - when the brother of the King of Aragon became King of Navarra -, and there were also close ties between Foix and Aragon and Foix and Navarra, hence putting the three countries in one alliance may work, although this creates a rather high probability of Aragon diplo-annexing Navarra. An event for the death of Juan of Aragon and Navarra that releases Navarra if it was owned by Aragon might help there.
Btw you should check out the EEP's events for Navarra and Foix. If the two countries just stayed independent reasonably often, these would definitely work well in the 15th century. I never got done with what I had wanted to do for Navarra in the 16th century, though

 

[Rhodz]

A Navarrese sequence involving the French wars of religion would be fun

 

[Archaalen]

When did Navarre officially cease to exist?

 

[Twoflower]

Originally posted by Archaalen
When did Navarre officially cease to exist?

Officially in 1620, when Béarn and Upper Navarra were annexed to France. Factually I'd guess either by Henri de Navarre assuming the lead of the Huguenots or by his ascension to the French throne.

 

[Archaalen]

Going back to Granada, they really need some sort of events. I'm playing as them just now, and even pre-1492, they have no real events. Is this just because their last years weren't all that interesting? (I wouldn't think so, since the collapse of a state is rarely boring). At any rate, they should at least have something like the Restoration of the Caliphate of Cordoba, if they meet the requirements (a certain size, the control of wherever the old capital was), which could get them similar stuff to Castile becoming Spain (maybe), and at the same time sleep the possibility of the creation of Spain (something that really needs doing once Castilian power is on the wane). Has this been done in either AGC or EEP? If not, would someone script it?

 

[Garbon]

Granada does have some events in the EEP. They even have an event sequence with the Mams. None of my fantasy events were ever included as I'm big into 'plausible fantasy' and I never really got all the kinks ironed out of my events.

 

[Archaalen]

event with the Mams, like the Khalifa event for the OE?

 

[Archaalen]

I know it's a bit much to ask with you occupied with Africa and all, but could you try and iron out those events and show them to the Council? I'd really appreciate it. Iberia in the early game needs some work.