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Mad King James

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Like I said, while there was push and pull on both sides, the territory the Caliphate of Cordoba considered their 'integral lands' was pretty much inside the territory south of Oporto, Leon, Navarra, and the March of Spain.
 

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I think that is why they have that black line there.

However, i think some events, hard to get, should be given for the conquest of the furthest extent of muslim rule within Iberia (pre-1031). They could then evetually get cores in every province in iberia except 427 and 428 (and maybe 431 and 432 as only the southern part ever saw muslim invaders).

They should though get 821. That is the only non-mainland province they should even have a chance to get.

Portugal should have an evet if it looses control over all 3 of its provinces to Granada to move the capital to one of its African provinces (Canary Islands I say only because they're given in the beginning and close by) or if its late enough move it to brazil.
 

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Sounds like a good idea. Do people approve of this?
 

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I'm interested in the stuff which has been happening wrt the reconquister, but I could add nothing useful to it, so please forgive me if I break into talking about N. Spain. :)

In the AGC-EEP is there a port in Cantabria represnting Bilbo (Bilbao)? The Basque shipbuilding industry was important from the time of the Vikings onwards in northern spain, including providing many of the sailors in the spanish armada and columbus' expedition.

Can the culture of Cantabria switch to being Basque if conquored by Navarra, to represent the growing power and influence of the Basques within that state, (I think Navarra has Iberian culture so this shouldn't be too much of a gameplay issue - [unless reconquored by Spain] correct me if I am mistaken).

From a long term perspective Navarra should never disappear from a possible Rebel / Vassal status, to represent the Basque desire for self determination. The Kingdom should be able to form in any of the historical Basque provinces (Cantabria, Navarra and Béarn).
 

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Originally posted by NeilJT
Can the culture of Cantabria switch to being Basque if conquored by Navarra, to represent the growing power and influence of the Basques within that state, (I think Navarra has Iberian culture so this shouldn't be too much of a gameplay issue - [unless reconquored by Spain] correct me if I am mistaken).

The area between Germany and Poland can change culture back and forth, correct? I can't see why not, really, nor why Navarra couldn't be set as a revolter for the entire game... but someone more knowledgable about Iberian history should probably comment...

Expanded Granadan Expansion Event Series Coming Soon! :)
 

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Originally posted by Jinnai
Portugal should have an evet if it looses control over all 3 of its provinces to Granada to move the capital to one of its African provinces (Canary Islands I say only because they're given in the beginning and close by) or if its late enough move it to brazil.

Do we have a precedent for nations that just pack up and flee when they are facing extinction? Should the nobles of Portugal be less willing to flee in the event that Castille take all of Portugals provinces and not Granada?

Besides that too many of these ideas have to much of a gimee! ring to them and too little pain. If we are going to have Granada be able to claim the Caliphate ( :eek: ), it needs to suffer large negative effects as well.

Edit: As a third note, wouldn't it make more sense for Nasrid Granada to make a claim as the successors of the Almohads, as thats something they could, at least, somewhat realistically claim? With that of course, they'd piss North Africa quite a bit, especially Morocco, but its not as far fetched as reaching back to the Caliphate.
 

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Portugal itself did it later when Napoleon invaded. I like your idea, Neill. Also, does EEP give Bilbao a port? It really should have one, as a center for Basque shipping. The basques were very important to Spanish shipping. The captain who brought Magellan's fleet home after he died was a Basque, and there was a long history of Basque-built ships sailing in Spanish fleets (Like the Armada. There was a squadron of "Biscayan" ships that sailed with them.)
 

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Originally posted by Garbon
Do we have a precedent for nations that just pack up and flee when they are facing extinction? Should the nobles of Portugal be less willing to flee in the event that Castille take all of Portugals provinces and not Granada?

Besides that too many of these ideas have to much of a gimee! ring to them and too little pain. If we are going to have Granada be able to claim the Caliphate ( :eek: ), it needs to suffer large negative effects as well.

Well, what would you suggest? And reclaiming the empire of the Almohads might be an option... that would open up for cores on North Africa too... I'll get my act together and post some events tomorrow.
 

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Definitely, I'd think, Portugal, Castile and Aragon should have the options to move their capitals northward when/if Granada owns the province immediately south of their present ones. It could key off of also being at war with Granada, so they'd only evacuate in time of war (the next war after Granada claimed that land.)

What I'm thinking is, if Granada owns Algarve, Portugal could shift its capital from Lisbon to Oporto; Aragon could shift out of Catalonia if Granada owns Valencia, and so on...
 

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Perhaps, claiming the Caliphate of Cordoba shouldn't automatically give Granada claims on the provinces of Iberia, but rather long term-temp cbs on the Iberian powers, as its doubtful that the local populaces would have just accepted Granada's claims. This way, Granada still must fight for domination of the Iberian provinces, by suffering the revolt risk that is deserved.
 

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Does either the AGC or the EEP have post-1492 monarchs for Granada?

If not, I have a list I made up for my current GC as them that I can contribute. (The list has absolutely no basis in history, but what would?)
 

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Originally posted by Garbon
Perhaps, claiming the Caliphate of Cordoba shouldn't automatically give Granada claims on the provinces of Iberia, but rather long term-temp cbs on the Iberian powers, as its doubtful that the local populaces would have just accepted Granada's claims. This way, Granada still must fight for domination of the Iberian provinces, by suffering the revolt risk that is deserved.
Only if Chrisitan ones drop their CB shileds on Granada as its similar circumstance...ie they didn't really like the reconquista very much at the time, so imo they should get CB shields on the historically recongnized borders of the Caliphate, but not the furtherst extent of pre 1031 muslim rule without further events.

But as for moving portugal's captial from Lisbon there was precedant as mentioned, but not only that there is game balance to think of. If they conquer lisbon and canarary islands they can annex portugal and get all its colonies and all its known lands automatically become a naval power, something that granada never was.
 

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Originally posted by Jinnai
Only if Chrisitan ones drop their CB shileds on Granada as its similar circumstance...ie they didn't really like the reconquista very much at the time, so imo they should get CB shields on the historically recongnized borders of the Caliphate, but not the furtherst extent of pre 1031 muslim rule without further events.

Unless it was changed recently, Castile shouldn't have Granada as one of its core provinces. ;) Giving Granada cores on all those provinces, makes it too much of a tea party.

Originally posted by Jinnai
But as for moving portugal's captial from Lisbon there was precedant as mentioned, but not only that there is game balance to think of. If they conquer lisbon and canarary islands they can annex portugal and get all its colonies and all its known lands automatically become a naval power, something that granada never was.

I meant precedent, in that do we have other events that do this? I also fail to see how Portugal moving its capital near the 19th century could be considered a precedent for an event that would likely be triggered in the 15th or 16th centuries...:p

BTW, game balance isn't really an issue when you realize that all this fantasy would likely only occur with a human player, who is going to become a naval power anyways.
 

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Originally posted by Garbon
Unless it was changed recently, Castile shouldn't have Granada as one of its core provinces. ;) Giving Granada cores on all those provinces, makes it too much of a tea party.
Not if we're using your standard..ie the population in Granada would be more heavily and more densly muslim than before the reconquista began (all those refugees).
We're not saying they get them immediatly, they haveto take a few provinces before then.
If we don't do this, i can't see Castile having cores on Granada until after it becomes christian which is after 1492.

I meant precedent, in that do we have other events that do this? I also fail to see how Portugal moving its capital near the 19th century could be considered a precedent for an event that would likely be triggered in the 15th or 16th centuries...:p
Babur's Ambition
BTW, game balance isn't really an issue when you realize that all this fantasy would likely only occur with a human player, who is going to become a naval power anyways.
True, but that doesn't mean balance should be thrown out the window
 

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Originally posted by Jinnai
Babur's Ambition

I don't recall Babur's Ambition triggering on having lost control of provinces. Besides that, Babur's kingdom in Ferghana was annexed out right, buts its ruler fled to found another kingdom. He didn't flee to other lands under his control, because, he didn't have any other lands under his control.
 

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Why not give Granada a long term CB then give them a chance to get the core when they actually own the province? If they pick to get the core maybe have a revoult triggered there and a stability loss to represent the people not fully recognizing their claim.
 

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Originally posted by Garbon
I don't recall Babur's Ambition triggering on having lost control of provinces. Besides that, Babur's kingdom in Ferghana was annexed out right, buts its ruler fled to found another kingdom. He didn't flee to other lands under his control, because, he didn't have any other lands under his control.
The game does give him vast stretches of CB shields for doing little more than claiming the mantle of Timur and Ghenghis Khan in his attempt to unite the world under his rule.

He did do a bit more, but not much and its about the same differance, actually less, than we're asking for Granada.
 

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Originally posted by Jinnai
The game does give him vast stretches of CB shields for doing little more than claiming the mantle of Timur and Ghenghis Khan in his attempt to unite the world under his rule.

He did do a bit more, but not much and its about the same differance, actually less, than we're asking for Granada.

Wherein lies the difference between encouraging historical actions and encouraging fantasy.
 

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Originally posted by Garbon
Wherein lies the difference between encouraging historical actions and encouraging fantasy.

The AI is too stupid to defeat Castile in 99% of the cases anyway, and if AI Granada wins things must be so out of whack that history is completly irrelevant (like France and England allying with them against Castile or something). And forcing players to simply recreate history is baaad...

I was supposed to post my events here today, but real life (and real life school) caught up with me. I'll try to get them tomorrow instead.