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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

sturmvogel

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Does the current -1 suffice for a nation (SPA) that was decentralized , preventing any catalans or basques from ever trading or going to the americas, , to see these areas ( catalonia and basque county) be run down to a miserable state until the 18th century ????

If -5 is too much, I think -1 is not enough

I'm sorry to hear that you disagree with me, but I will learn to live that sorrow in my life.

Actually I think that Isabella and Ferdinand centralized quite a bit of power in their hands over the course of their reign. Especially considering how lax things had gotten under Enrique IV. But this is mostly in Castile more than elsewhere and I think the -1 is appropriate to show how things were a bit harder to control in the Crown of Aragon. All that stuff that you mention is best handled by the loss of Catalan culture until the Bourbons come in and revise the entire system.

I actually tend to agree with you in that we don't penalize the late Spanish player enough, but that's mainly because of a lot of bone-headed economic moves that the Spanish made over the course of the game, that we can't really represent other than by arbitrary tax reductions or something, which nobody really wants to do because it should be tied to player actions in some way.
 

Toio

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I'm sorry to hear that you disagree with me, but I will learn to live that sorrow in my life.

Actually I think that Isabella and Ferdinand centralized quite a bit of power in their hands over the course of their reign. Especially considering how lax things had gotten under Enrique IV. But this is mostly in Castile more than elsewhere and I think the -1 is appropriate to show how things were a bit harder to control in the Crown of Aragon. All that stuff that you mention is best handled by the loss of Catalan culture until the Bourbons come in and revise the entire system.

its not a disagreement as we agree with each other, only issue is the level of the negative centralization to be applied

if you think its adequate, well , we wait and see on when the changes are applied and check then ( changes with aragon province , I mean)

I actually tend to agree with you in that we don't penalize the late Spanish player enough, but that's mainly because of a lot of bone-headed economic moves that the Spanish made over the course of the game, that we can't really represent other than by arbitrary tax reductions or something, which nobody really wants to do because it should be tied to player actions in some way.

We can always do player only events :rolleyes:
 

Garbon

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I don't see how player only events would help. As sturmvogel pointed out, the issue is that Spain's suffered a lot because of its economic properties. As the player is not likely to mismanage his finances, you can't severely penalize him just because it is historical.
 
Last edited:

Toio

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I don't see how player only events would help. As Strix pointed out, the issue is that Spain's suffered a lot because of its economic properties. As the player is not likely to mismanage his finances, you can't severely penalize him just because it is historical.

ok, I never intended to pursue this

who is strix :confused:
 

Canenald

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Three events that supposed to give colonial cores to SPA in South America are targeted at POR instead. Just do a search for "country = POR". If I recall correctly, the IDs should be 285326, 285315 and 285316. In addition to this, SPA_285316 uses the text for SPA_285315.
 

Canenald

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Another one. Events FRA_170323 and FRA_170324 are triggered by choice in SPA_285306, but they both have exact dates specified. This will make them trigger on that date and Spain will end up as Napoleon's vassal regardless of choices in SPA_285305 and SPA_285306.
 

unmerged(40707)

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This one is in mandead's TODO list. The sequence is not finished... ;)

IIRC, I mentioned it in my remarks. FRA events should wait for SPA_285306 to fire. Because the date of the FRA events is different from the SPA one, SPA_285306 shouldn't trigger the FRA event according to the choice but sleep the other one instead. Because a Spanish player can wait two months before answering the event, FRA events should have a small offset (1) and a deathdate for May, 5 + 2 months => July, 29 for safety.
 
Last edited:
Jan 9, 2005
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Yes, stuff I have to fix when I get round to it (have some ENG stuff first...) :eek:o

Temp fix: for the events in question, put a # before the date = { part - it should then fire when triggered by the relevant Spanish events, and not on a specific date.

Apologies. :D
 

Toio

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what about post 3260 ?

will these be implemented?
 
Jan 9, 2005
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will these be implemented?
Up to Garbon & Yoda, so await their replies.

Personally I have no problem as long as they agree, and no Spanish provinces should become Portuguese (which I think we've now agreed on anyway).
 

unmerged(40707)

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In post 3260, consensus is right for points 1, 2 and 3. I see no opposition for the changes.
 

Canenald

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I think something is wrong with Mafra sequence for POR. Choice A in POR_260035 starts the sequence in 1715 and costs 500. Then, in 1730, POR_260036 and POR_260037 are supposed to trigger on the exact same date, but POR_260037 has { event = 260038 #POR: The Basilica at o Real Convento de Mafra is finished } trigger. POR_ 260038 is the end of the event sequence that triggers in 1750 with { event = 260037 #POR: O Real Convento de Mafra is half-complete } trigger. Obviously, POR_260037 and POR_260038 will never trigger because they depend on each other.

Now, POR_260036 and POR_260037 look quite similar except for some a sleepevent command in POR_260037 with a target event id that is also totally out of place. This leads me to believe that POR_260037 should have been a replacement for POR_260036 but something went wrong with the Force.

Here are the changes I've done to patch my game which I believe will also repair the sequence as a whole since it is not related to any other events outside the sequence.

Code:
#(1715-1717) The Commissioning of O Real Convento de Mafra
event = {
	id = 260035
	random = no
	country = POR
	name = "EVENTNAME260035" #Mafra
	desc = "EVENTHIST260035"

	date = { day = 0 month = january year = 1715 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 18 month = november year = 1717 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME260035A" #We need it for the Glory of God
		command = { type = vp value = 10 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -500 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 50 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME260035B" #Useless piece of..
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		[COLOR="Red"]command = { type = sleepevent which = 260036 } #POR: The Basilica at o Real Convento de Mafra is finished[/COLOR]
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 260037 } #POR: O Real Convento de Mafra is half complete
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 260038 } #POR: O Real Convento de Mafra is almost done
	}
}
#-#D. Joăo V, a profoundly religious man, commissioned an extravagant monastery amd royal palace in 1715 in gratitude for the birth of his daughter. He wanted the palace and basilica to compete in magnificence and grandeur with Spain's Escorial and St. Peter's in Rome, and at the time it seemed that such a huge project would never be completed. At one point there were 45,000 men working on it and 7,000 soldiers overseeing the workforce. Only the gold flowing from Brazil made it possible.


Code:
[COLOR="Red"]#(1730) The Basilica at o Real Convento de Mafra is finished
event = {
	id = 260036
	trigger = {
		event = 260035 #POR: The Commissioning of o Real Convento de Mafra
	}
	random = no
	country = POR
	name = "EVENTNAME260036" #Mafra
	desc = "EVENTHIST260036"

	date = { day = 23 month = october year = 1730 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME260036A" #We will finish it for the Glory of God
		command = { type = vp value = 10 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -500 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 50 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME260036B" #Enough is enough
		command = { type = vp value = -10 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 260037 } #POR: O Real Convento de Mafra is half complete
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 260038 } #POR: O Real Convento de Mafra is almost done
	}
}[/COLOR]

Code:
#(1730) O Real Convento de Mafra is half complete
event = {
	id = 260037
	random = no
	country = POR
	name = "EVENTNAME260037" #Mafra
	desc = "EVENTHIST260037"
	trigger = {
		[COLOR="Yellow"]event = 260035 #POR: The Commissioning of O Real Convento de Mafra[/COLOR]
	}

	date = { day = 23 month = october year = 1730 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME260037A" #We will finish it for the Glory of God
		command = { type = vp value = 10 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -500 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 50 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME260037B" #Enough is enough
		command = { type = vp value = -10 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = [COLOR="Yellow"]260038 [/COLOR]} #POR: O Real Convento de Mafra is almost done
	}
}
#-#After 13 years, the Basilica at o Real Convento de Mafra is finished. Judged a masterpiece of Baroque architecture on its own merits, it looks very odd since the adjacent palace and library are unfinished.


Code:
#(1750) O Real Convento de Mafra is almost done
event = {
	id = 260038
	trigger = {
		[COLOR="yellow"]event = 260037 #POR: O Real Convento de Mafra is half complete[/COLOR]
	}
	random = no
	country = POR
	name = "EVENTNAME260038" #Mafra is almost done
	desc = "EVENTHIST260038"

	date = { day = 1 month = july year = 1750 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME260038A" #Let us complete my father's monument
		command = { type = vp value = 50 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -100 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 25 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 10 }
		command = { type = relation which = HAB value = 10 }
		command = { type = DIP which = 2 value = 60 }
		command = { type = infra value = 250 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME260038B" #I'll not throw good money after bad
		command = { type = vp value = -50 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
	}
}
#-#Joăo V died before Mafra was completed, but the work continued under his son José I although the Earthquake of 1755 diverted much labor to rebuilding Lisbon. Mafra was never much in favor with the royal family who mainly used it as a hunting lodge, but it is an masterpiece of the Baroque style. Designed to overawe the visitor with its size and splendor it also succeeds on a smaller scale with the beautiful 35,000 volume Royal Library.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(40707)

Just call me Yoda in private!
Mar 1, 2005
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but something went wrong with the Force.
Impossible... :D

Sequence is exactly as proposed in submission #582.

I agree 260036 could be removed but Sturmvogel could confirm. And it is obvious there was a problem with involved ids.

In the mean time, proposed bugfix if 260036 is really wanted:
Code:
#(1730) O Real Convento de Mafra is half complete
event = {
	id = 260037
	trigger = {
		event = [COLOR="Yellow"]260036[/COLOR] #POR: Mafra
	}
	random = no
	country = POR
	name = "EVENTNAME260037" #[COLOR="Yellow"]Palace and library for Mafra[/COLOR]
	desc = "EVENTHIST260037"
	#-#

	date = { day = 23 month = october year = 1730 }
	[COLOR="Yellow"]offset = 5
	deathdate = { day = 23 month = january year = 1731 }[/COLOR]

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME260037A" #We will finish it for the Glory of God
		command = { type = vp value = 10 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -500 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 50 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME260037B" #Enough is enough
		command = { type = vp value = -10 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = [COLOR="Yellow"]260038[/COLOR] } #POR: Mafra is almost done
	}
}
#-#After 13 years, the Basilica at o Real Convento de Mafra is finished. Judged a masterpiece of Baroque architecture on its own merits, it looks very odd since the adjacent palace and library are unfinished.
 
Last edited:

ConjurerDragon

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Lepanto Event SPA 285140

In my current game as the Ottoman Empire I´m at war with the spanish alliance and winning.

Despite my ahistorical strong position and turkish fleets ruling the mediterrenean while I´m sieging Corsica, Genua and Sardinia the "Battle of Lepanto" event has fired for spain which tells my spanish AI enemies that they just won a major battle :wacko:

german Lepanto WIKI:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeschlacht_von_Lepanto
english wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lepanto

Not that the AI spain could not need the aid of that event - but I don´t like the thought that they get +2 stab for something that they did not and could not achieve.

So I suggest to add a few conditions to the trigger of the event beyond just "war between Spain and the Ottomans".

Historically the naval battle of Lepanto happened because the Holy league became more active after the Ottomans recently assaulted Cyprus that belonged to Venice - but became active too late to actually prevent the fall of Cyprus to the Ottomans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_League_(1571)

As far as I read the WIKI Spain alone could not have won that battle. The participation of the other catholic maritime powers, especially Venice was crucial to the victory at Lepanto. Before the victory was secured part of the battle was actually lost when Uludsch Ali conquered the maltese flagship and captured their flag.

To represent that I suggest the following conditions:
1) Ottomans must be in a roughtly historical position or stronger - if weaker then Spain does not need any boost by that event and the catholic powers (especially genua and venice) would never have worked together.

2) The "Holy league" event must have fired *before* "The battle of Lepanto" - currently the battle can fire 1556-1577 but the "Holy league" event only on the historical date of 1571 and Spain must NOT have stayed neutral in the holy league event.

3) Spain must have at least one of the historical allies (KNI-Malta, VENice, GENua, SAVoy, Pope) and must not be at war with any of them while at war with TUR.

4) Spain needs access to the port where historically the league assembled their fleet (Messina, Sicily) or some other port in the eastern med.

5) Venice must still have a core on Cyprus - there is a chance that VEN peacefully cedes cyprus to the Ottomans and loses that core improving it´s relations with TUR. In that case I don´t see VEN supporting SPA at Lepanto and thus no chance to win for Spain.

6) According to the description of the battle in WIKI one of the major advantages was the use of arquebuses and muskets by the spanish and heavy use of cannons on the part of the alliance. So spain should have arquebuses and muskets which would be land 14 and naval 14 (normal year to have that 1545). A player who did not research land or naval at all should not win Lepanto.
Land 14
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=366484&postcount=2
naval 14
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=366489&postcount=3

Code:
#(1556-1577) The battle of Lepanto
#by Fodoron
event = {
	id = 285140
	trigger = { 
                       war = { country = TUR country = SPA }
                       [color=yellow]event = 3161 #Holy league event
                       core = { province = 484 data = VEN } #Venice still claims Cyprus
                       NOT = { 
                                 war = { country = SPA country = VEN }#holy alliance does not fight itself
                                 war = { country = SPA country = GEN }
                                 war = { country = SPA country = KNI }
                                 war = { country = SPA country = SAV }
                                 war = { country = SPA country = PAP }
                                 war = { country = SPA country = SIC }
                               }
                       OR  = {
                                  owned = { province = 395 data = SPA } #alliance controls one port near Lepanto
                                  AND = { owned = { province = 395 data =  SIC } #Messina historical gathering point
                                              alliance = { country = SPA country = SIC } }
                                  AND = { owned = { province = 395 data =  SIC } #Messina
                                              vassal = { country = SPA country = SIC } }
                                  AND = { owned = { province = 480 data =  VEN } #Crete alternative
                                              alliance = { country = SPA country = VEN } }
                                  AND = { owned = { province = 819 data =  KNI } #Malta alternative
                                              alliance = { country = SPA country = KNI } }
                                 }
                       Land = 14
                       Naval = 14[/color]
                      }
	random = no
	country = SPA
	name = "EVENTNAME285140" #The battle of Lepanto
	desc = "EVENTHIST285140"
	#-#Felipe II could dedicate very little attention and resources to the Mediterranean, as busy as he was with the rebellion in the Low Countries. However in 1565 his help was required by the Hospitallers to defend Malta against a combined assault by the Ottomans and Barbary pirates. The victory was very important because it put a clear limit to how far would the Ottoman Empire capable of projecting his power. However the Ottoman Empire was at his peak, as the capture of Tunis in 1569 demonstrated. The capture of Cyprus in 1571, triggered the formation of a Holy League, mainly formed by Spain, Venice and Papal States, with the combined fleet under command of Don Juan de Austria. The interests of Venice and Spain were very different: Venice wanted to recover Cyprus, and Spain wanted to recover her North African presidios, and they could only agree in fighting the Ottoman navy. The ensuing battle at Lepanto was the biggest naval battle in modern times with over 32,000 casualties (by comparison Trafalgar had only 3,000), 25,000 of them in the Ottoman side. The Ottoman fleet was almost completely destroyed. News of the victory were extremely well received by the Christians that suffered the Ottoman and Barbary piracy. Although the Ottomans rebuilt their fleet and recaptured Tunis a second time in 1574, their naval supremacy in the Mediterranean was destroyed forever.

	date = { day = 0 month = january year = 1556 }
	offset = 100
	deathdate = { day = 0 month = january year = 1577 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME285140A" #A great achievement
		command = { type = stability value = 2 }
	}
}

Code:
#(1571-1573) The Holy League - modified by YodaMaster
event = {
	id = 3161
	trigger = {
		exists = TUR
		OR = {
			event = 3549 #PAP: The Holy League
			event = 236000 #MUS: The Holy League (no Papal States)
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = SPA
	name = "EVENTNAME3549" #The Holy League
	desc = "EVENTHIST3549"
	#-#When in 1570 the Turks sent an ultimatum to Venice asking for the ceding of Cyprus and then invaded the island after the Republic of San Marco failed to respond, a great uproar was created in the Catholic world by the facts and rumors of Ottoman atrocities in the last Christian bastion of the eastern Mediterranean. After a first failure in the summer of 1570, Pope Pius V managed to convince major Catholic nations (except France) to join a Holy League against the heathens Turks, and it was proclaimed in May 1571. The League would lead to the great naval victory of Don Juan on the Turks at Lepanto, but would not outlast this first and final triumph. Selim II is rumored to have said, after the news he had lost 200 galleys at Lepanto: At Lepanto, the Christians have shaved me. At Cyprus, I cut their arm. My beard will grow again….

	date = { [color=red]day = 7 month = may year = 1571[/color][color=yellow]day = 0 month = january year = 1556 [/color] } [color=yellow] #historical date 07.05.1571[/color]
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { [color=red]day = 13 month = april year = 1573[/color][color=yellow]day = 0 month = january year = 1577[/color] }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3161A" #Support the Holy League
		command = { type = casusbelli which = TUR value = 72 }
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -150 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = GEN value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = ITA value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = KNI value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = NAP value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = SAV value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = SIC value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = TOS value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = 50 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3549B" #Let the matter fall
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = GEN value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = ITA value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = KNI value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = NAP value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = SAV value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = SIC value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = TOS value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -50 }
                [color=yellow]command = { type = sleepevent which = 285140 } #SPA: Battle of Lepanto[/color]
	}
}

Any other ideas?

Edit:
As 3161 can only trigger if PAP 3549 has already fired we would need to do the same change there too:

Code:
#(1571-1573) The Holy League - modified by YodaMaster
event = {
	id = 3549
	trigger = { 
                        [color=red]exists = TUR[/color] #that TUR exists is not enough they must be a threat
                     [color=yellow]OR = { 
                              neighbour = TUR #the turks ante portas
                              control = { province = 480 data = TUR } #Crete
                              control = { province = 484 data = TUR } #Cyprus
                              control = { province = 739 data = TUR } #Tunis
                              control = { province = 351 data = TUR } #Vienna
                            } [/color]
                     }  
	random = no
	country = PAP
	name = "EVENTNAME3549" #The Holy League
	desc = "EVENTHIST3549"
	#-#When in 1570 the Turks sent an ultimatum to Venice asking for the ceding of Cyprus and then invaded the island after the Republic of San Marco failed to respond, a great uproar was created in the Catholic world by the facts and rumors of Ottoman atrocities in the last Christian bastion of the eastern Mediterranean. After a first failure in the summer of 1570, Pope Pius V managed to convince major Catholic nations (except France) to join a Holy League against the heathens Turks, and it was proclaimed in May 1571. The League would lead to the great naval victory of Don Juan on the Turks at Lepanto, but would not outlast this first and final triumph. Selim II is rumored to have said, after the news he had lost 200 galleys at Lepanto: At Lepanto, the Christians have shaved me. At Cyprus, I cut their arm. My beard will grow again.

	date = { [color=red]day = 7 month = may year = 1571[/color][color=yellow]day = 0 month = january year = 1556 [/color] } [color=yellow]  } #historical date 07.05.1571
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { [color=red]day = 13 month = april year = 1573[/color][color=yellow]day = 0 month = january year = 1577[/color] }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3549A" #Create the Holy League
		command = { type = casusbelli which = TUR value = 72 }
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -150 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = GEN value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = ITA value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = KNI value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = NAP value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = SAV value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = SIC value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = TOS value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = 50 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3549B" #Let the matter fall
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = GEN value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = ITA value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = KNI value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = NAP value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = SAV value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = SIC value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = TOS value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -50 }
	}
}

Same changes to alternative event if PAP does not exist:

Code:
#(1571-1573) The Holy League - no Papal States
#by Norrefeldt and YodaMaster
event = {
	id = 236000
	trigger = {
		exists = TUR
		NOT = { exists = PAP }
		NOT = { event = 3549 } #PAP: The Holy League
	}
	random = no
	country = MUS
	name = "EVENTNAME3549" #The Holy League
	desc = "EVENTHIST3549"
	#-#When in 1570 the Turks sent an ultimatum to Venice asking for the ceding of Cyprus and then invaded the island after the Republic of San Marco failed to respond, a great uproar was created in the Catholic world by the facts and rumors of Ottoman atrocities in the last Christian bastion of the eastern Mediterranean. After a first failure in the summer of 1570, Pope Pius V managed to convince major Catholic nations (except France) to join a Holy League against the heathens Turks, and it was proclaimed in May 1571. The League would lead to the great naval victory of Don Juan on the Turks at Lepanto, but would not outlast this first and final triumph. Selim II is rumored to have said, after the news he had lost 200 galleys at Lepanto: At Lepanto, the Christians have shaved me. At Cyprus, I cut their arm. My beard will grow again.

	date = {  [color=red]day = 7 month = may year = 1571[/color][color=yellow]day = 0 month = january year = 1556 [/color] } [color=yellow]  } #historical date 07.05.1571
	offset = 30
	deathdate = {  [color=red]day = 13 month = april year = 1573[/color][color=yellow]day = 0 month = january year = 1577[/color] }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3549A" #Create the Holy League
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 3549 } #PAP: The Holy League
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3549B" #Let the matter fall
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 3549 } #PAP: The Holy League
	}
}

Similar changes to the VEN Lepanto event:

Code:
#(1556-1577) The battle of Lepanto
#by Fodoron
event = {
	id = 326041
	trigger = {
		war = { country = TUR country = VEN }
   [color=yellow]OR = { 
                              neighbour = TUR #the turks ante portas
                              control = { province = 480 data = TUR } #Crete
                              control = { province = 484 data = TUR } #Cyprus
                              control = { province = 739 data = TUR } #Tunis
                              control = { province = 351 data = TUR } #Vienna
                            } 
                      NOT = { 
                                 war = { country = VEN country = SPA }#holy alliance does not fight itself
                                 war = { country = VEN country = GEN }
                                 war = { country = VEN country = KNI }
                                 war = { country = VEN country = SAV }
                                 war = { country = VEN country = PAP }
                                 war = { country = VEN country = SIC }
                               }
                            OR = {
			event = 3549 #PAP: The Holy League
			event = 236000 #MUS: The Holy League (no Papal States)
		                     }[/color]
	       }
	random = no
	country = VEN
	name = "EVENTNAME326041" #The battle of Lepanto
	desc = "EVENTHIST326041"
	#-#The loss of Cyprus in 1571, triggered the formation of a Holy League, mainly formed by Spain, Venice and Papal States, with the combined fleet under command of Don Juan de Austria. The interests of Venice and Spain were very different: Venice wanted to recover Cyprus, and Spain wanted to recover her North African presidios, and they could only agree in fighting the Ottoman navy. The ensuing battle at Lepanto was the biggest naval battle in modern times with over 32,000 casualties (by comparison Trafalgar had only 3,000), 25,000 of them in the Ottoman side. The Ottoman fleet was almost completely destroyed. News of the victory were extremely well received by the Christians that suffered the Ottoman and Barbary piracy. Although the Ottomans rebuilt their fleet and recaptured Tunis a second time in 1574, their naval supremacy in the Mediterranean was destroyed forever.

	date = { day = 0 month = january year = 1556 }
	offset = 100
	deathdate = { day = 0 month = january year = 1577 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME326041A" #A great achievement
		command = { type = stability value = 2 }
	}
}
 
Last edited:

ConjurerDragon

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Toio said:
t the battle of Lepanto, SPA only supplied 22 ships of the 208 the alliance had, Venice supplied 113, others where
PAP = 8
GEN = 26
TOS = 7
NAP = 29
KNI = 3
SAV = 3

Of the 137 TUR ships sunk, 71 where sunk by the 6 VEN galleass as well as another 41 by the other VEN galleys.

The only way you can do this event for the game is to make all these alliance nations dow TUR and also give Cyprus to the TUR if VEN owns it.

I do not want to do new events about Lepanto. I only try to improvce the triggers of those events that are already part of the last beta. And by improving I mean making it harder to get the Lepanto event than before.

The events should be slept if cyprus is not VEN owned.

I disagree here. Historically Lepanto happened *after* Venice lost Cyprus. Why then should we sleep the event in that case?

Edit: Historically Fall of Cyprus August 1571, Battle of Lepanto two month later in October 1571.
 
Last edited:

Toio

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I do not want to do new events about Lepanto. I only try to improvce the triggers of those events that are already part of the last beta. And by improving I mean making it harder to get the Lepanto event than before.



I disagree here. Historically Lepanto happened *after* Venice lost Cyprus. Why then should we sleep the event in that case?

Edit: Historically Fall of Cyprus August 1571, Battle of Lepanto two month later in October 1571.

The only reason TUR went to war against VEN was for Cyprus, if VEN does not own Cyprus, then these events needs to be slept.

TUR actually wanted to buy Cyprus from VEN before the war, but VEN refused.
The war did start in 1570 and only the 12 month defence of Famagusta was there an chance to relieve cyprus, Marco querini tried and even though he won many fleet engagements, had too little a force to prevent famagusta surrender.
 

ConjurerDragon

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The only reason TUR went to war against VEN was for Cyprus, if VEN does not own Cyprus, then these events needs to be slept.

I think we mean the same but write it differently.
I meant that historically Venice lost Cyprus to the Ottomans as the major reason that the holy alliance is built because of the Ottoman threat and the next step is the battle of Lepanto.

And you mean that if Venice has lost the island *to someone else than the turks* before that then the events must be slept right?
That is not necessary. The Lepanto event in the last beta did not take that into account but with my proposed additions Lepanto will not fire if Venice has ahistorically ceded Cyprus to the Ottomans peacefully. The trigger checks if VEN has still a core on Cyprus - if they ceded Cyprus by event they have lost that core and Lepanto won´t happen.

And the "Battle of Lepanto" event requires the spanish "Holy League" SPA 3161event to have fired before which requires the papal "Holy League" PAP 3549 event to have fired.

And PAP 3549 with my changes requires the Ottomans to be a real threat to the mediterranean like they historically where: Either neighbour of the papal states or controlling Cyprus (historical reason) or controlling Crete, Tunisia (ahistorically early) or Vienna (ahistorical but possible as they sieged it twice in history).

So my proposed changes make it much less likely that the Battle of Lepanto event fires than before.

TUR actually wanted to buy Cyprus from VEN before the war, but VEN refused.

That is the reason that Venice has event 3637 in which they have 3 choices. Historically paying tribute and keeping the island for a while longer, preparing for war or leaving the island to the Ottomans.

The war did start in 1570 and only the 12 month defence of Famagusta was there an chance to relieve cyprus, Marco querini tried and even though he won many fleet engagements, had too little a force to prevent famagusta surrender.

Right. And that is the reason "Lepanto" must still be able even if VEN lost Cyprus to the Ottomans. Because historically Lepanto happened 2 month after they lost Cyprus to the Ottomans.