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unmerged(40707)

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Yes, this is exactly what I wrote in my post above and I see no opposition to the combined proposals.
 
Jan 9, 2005
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Yes, this is exactly what I wrote in my post above and I see no opposition to the combined proposals.

Steady on, just double-checking. ;)
 

Toio

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i think the single revolter for FRI should be dutch culture
 

Toio

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issue with Netherlands not forming properly if KLE take GEL

scenario works well if GEL only owns 338 Guelders , but if GEL own more dutch lands , then when KLE annex GEL via event , netherlands never get to own these lands and is usually left with 2 provinces.

changes are

Code:
#(1538) Geldrian succession crisis sequence
event = {
	id = 75005
	trigger = {
		exists = KLE
		exists = SPA
                [COLOR="Yellow"]NOT = { countrysize = 2 }[/COLOR]
		OR = {
			event = 3178 #HAB: The Habsburg inheritance of Burgundy (1477)
			event = 137012 #BUR: Settlement at Arras (1482-1492)
			event = 137021 #BUR: The new Archduke of Burgundy (1494)
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = GEL
	name = "EVENTNAME75005" #Death of Charles of Egmont
	desc = "EVENTHIST75005"
	#-#In 1538 Duke Charles died without an heir. Once again the estates of Guelders had to choose a successor. They elected the protestant Duke Wilhelm of Kleve who had just unified Kleve and Berg. However, the Habsburgs who had inherited the claim from Burgundy interfered, and after defeating Kleve annexed Guelders.

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1538 }
	offset = 200
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1539 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME75005A" #Elect Wilhelm of Kleve (End Game)
		command = { type = trigger which = 75006 } #KLE: Wilhelm was elected Duke of Guelders
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME75005B" #Elect Karl of Habsburg (End Game)
		command = { type = trigger which = 75008 } #SPA: Habsburg inherits Guelders
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME75005C" #Elect a local noble instead
		command = { type = stability value = -3 }
		command = { type = relation which = KLE value = -50 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 75009 } #SPA: Habsburg claim on Guelders ignored
	}
}
Code:
#(1538) Charles the Bold didn't buy Guelders and the Habsburgs don't have a claim
event = {
	id = 75010
	trigger = {
		exists = KLE
		NOT = {
                        [COLOR="Yellow"]countrysize = 2[/COLOR]
			event = 3178 #HAB: The Habsburg inheritance of Burgundy
			event = 137012 #BUR: Settlement at Arras (1482-1492)
			event = 137021 #BUR: The new Archduke of Burgundy (1494)
			event = 3319 #FRA: The Valois inheritance of Burgundy
		}	#ie, BUR_3597 C was previously chosen!
	}
	random = no
	country = GEL
	name = "EVENTNAME75005" #Death of Charles of Egmont
	desc = "EVENTHIST75010"
	#-#In 1538 Duke Charles died without an heir. Once again the estates of Guelders had to choose a successor. They elected the protestant Duke of Kleve who had just unified Kleve and Berg.

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1538 }
	offset = 200
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1539 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME75005A" #Elect Wilhelm of Kleve (End Game)
		command = { type = trigger which = 75011 } #KLE: Wilhelm was elected Duke of Guelders
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME75005C" #Elect a local noble instead
		command = { type = stability value = -3 }
		command = { type = relation which = KLE value = -50 }
	}
}

thoughts ?
 

unmerged(40707)

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It means a local noble will always be elected if Guelders owns at least 2 provinces, right?

But second province (or more) could be outside Dutch provinces and will have no influence on the formation of the Netherlands. Why not checking ownership of any Dutch province other than Geldre instead of countrysize = 2, then?
 
Last edited:

Toio

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It means a local noble will always be elected if Guelders owns at least 2 provinces, right?

But second province (or more) could be outside Dutch provinces and will have no influence on the formation of the Netherlands. Why not checking ownership of any Dutch province other than Geldre instead of countrysize = 2, then?

i thought about this, but the issue is why should KLE annex any other province that GEL own ( apart from guelders) if they (KLE) are not entitled to it ?


trigger might be then

#(1538) Geldrian succession crisis sequence
event = {
id = 75005
trigger = {
exists = KLE
exists = SPA
owned = { province = 338 data = -1 } #guelders
control = { province = 338 data = -1 }

OR = {
event = 3178 #HAB: The Habsburg inheritance of Burgundy (1477)
event = 137012 #BUR: Settlement at Arras (1482-1492)
event = 137021 #BUR: The new Archduke of Burgundy (1494)
}
}
random = no
country = GEL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

will this gaurantee that the event will only fire if GEL owns or controls province 338 only?
 

unmerged(40707)

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will this gaurantee that the event will only fire if GEL owns or controls province 338 only?
No, this condition will check if Geldre is owned and controlled but it doesn't mean this is the only owned province.

i thought about this, but the issue is why should KLE annex any other province that GEL own ( apart from guelders) if they (KLE) are not entitled to it ?
Because this is a succession and can't we consider provinces outside Dutch area (especially German ones) are not a "problem" (i.e. estates of Guelders) while other Dutch provinces will make it preferable to elect a local nobles? Does it make sense?

EDIT: remember AI Cleves will be forced to release German minors inside HRE.

What I had in mind was:
Code:
NOT = { #Any other Dutch province
	owned = { province = 337 data = -1 } #Friesen
	owned = { province = 339 data = -1 } #Holland
	owned = { province = 340 data = -1 } #Zeeland
}
 
Last edited:

Toio

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No, this condition will check if Geldre is owned and controlled but it doesn't mean this is the only owned province.

Because this is a succession and can't we consider provinces outside Dutch area (especially German ones) are not a "problem" (i.e. estates of Guelders) while other Dutch provinces will make it preferable to elect a local nobles? Does it make sense?

EDIT: remember AI Cleves will be forced to release German minors inside HRE.

What I had in mind was:
Code:
NOT = { #Any other Dutch province
	owned = { province = 337 data = -1 } #Friesen
	owned = { province = 339 data = -1 } #Holland
	owned = { province = 340 data = -1 } #Zeeland
}

Ok for "what you in mind"
 
Jan 9, 2005
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Post #990 updated with hauValois set and decision regarding cores.
 

unmerged(40707)

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And my own version of hauValois:

shieldhauvaloisla2.png

smallshieldhauvaloisec7.png


shieldhauvaloisch6.png

smallshieldhauvaloisrs5.png


flaghauvaloiswd8.png




Better?
 

unmerged(40707)

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Is it logical for Brabant to keep the Valois gfx after the death of the Bastard and Nevers-Rethel monarchs?
 

unmerged(40707)

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Ok for "what you in mind"
Ok, but we have a problem with GEL_75005 (Spain has a claim). Shouldn't SPA_75009 be triggered in a new event in this case? Shouldn't GEL_75010 have an alternate event too?

And what about 75012 and 75017 then?

There is no real problem with 75018 as it is.

EDIT: and a question: if AI Guelders survives, won't it be a problem for the formation of Netherlands anyway?
 
Last edited:

Toio

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Is it logical for Brabant to keep the Valois gfx after the death of the Bastard and Nevers-Rethel monarchs?

I think they should only retain the COA without the valois, and just concentrate on the COA which has brabant and limburg ( see wiki site for COA)
 

unmerged(40707)

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We had this discussion about Brabant + Limburg before. I even made CoA and flag but they were discarded and final decision for 1.56 was current default gfx Brabant set for revolter (i.e. Nevers Rethel, if I understand correctly).

Remember the discussion about the removal of HLL, around this page and especially post #760 for the gfx Brabant + Limburg set that was discarded and post #833 for the final set you approved in post #821.
 
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Toio

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Ok, but we have a problem with GEL_75005 (Spain has a claim). Shouldn't SPA_75009 be triggered in a new event in this case? Shouldn't GEL_75010 have an alternate event too?
is gel 75005 ahistorical ?, seems like it was always historical especially from 1492
75005 and 75010 should be treated equally , that is , what good for one is good for the other

And what about 75012 and 75017 then?

i do not understand 75012 and 75017 to remain as is


EDIT: and a question: if AI Guelders survives, won't it be a problem for the formation of Netherlands anyway?

It is never a problem if GEL survive

The issue I saw recently was that KLE inherited 2 gel provinces, zeeland and guelders, which made KLE have a total of 5 provinces. Netherlands formed in 1559 and had only frisia and holland provinces, KLE dowed netherlands continuously until they where totally annexed by KLE,
netherlands never appeared again , altough I ran the game only to 1590
 

Toio

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We had this discussion about Brabant + Limburg before. I even made CoA and flag but they were discarded and final decision for 1.56 was current default gfx Brabant set for revolter (i.e. Nevers Rethel, if I understand correctly).

Remember the discussion about the removal of HLL, around this page and especially post #760 for the gfx Brabant + Limburg set that was discarded and post #833 for the final set you approved in post #821.

ok, i thought this was a discussion ig brabant does not get annexed by BUR,

On this same issue, IF this occurs ( ie BUR does not annex brabant)
I feel BUR should still move capital to ........maybe either holland and zeeland to continue to try to realign its historical path
 

unmerged(40707)

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is gel 75005 ahistorical ?, seems like it was always historical especially from 1492
75005 and 75010 should be treated equally , that is , what good for one is good for the other
Yes, in this case they should have both alternate event if Guelders owns any other Dutch province. It seems fair to me.

i do not understand 75012 and 75017 to remain as is
What do you mean exactly? Should the new condition be added in 75012 and 75017 and alternate events created then?

It is never a problem if GEL survive

The issue I saw recently was that KLE inherited 2 gel provinces, zeeland and guelders, which made KLE have a total of 5 provinces. Netherlands formed in 1559 and had only frisia and holland provinces, KLE dowed netherlands continuously until they where totally annexed by KLE,
netherlands never appeared again , altough I ran the game only to 1590
Yes, I understand it is easy for AI Cleves to crush the rebellion because of the land path but not always. Anyway, Dutch provinces owned by Cleves should defect. If Guelders survives, Dutch revolts will only happen in two provinces and Guelders will join the Republic. However, Cleves is not exempted from the Dutch revolts and, IMHO, odds for seing Netherlands form from two provinces can't be higher than from four.
 

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ok, i thought this was a discussion ig brabant does not get annexed by BUR,
Yes, this is the case, first Nevers-Rethel ahistorical monarchs are just replaced by the Great Bastard in mandead's proposal but Nevers-Rethel will come back after this. Before the Valois gfx set and mandead's proposal, Brabant kept the Brabant lion only with Nevers-Rethel succession (no change) but we have (at least I have without confirmation) a problem for the CoA after the death of the Great Bastard now.

On this same issue, IF this occurs ( ie BUR does not annex brabant)
I feel BUR should still move capital to ........maybe either holland and zeeland to continue to try to realign its historical path
It could be a real problem with a possible Burgundian capital bump because of Brabant revolter.