Garbon

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Toio said:
Was there kings of netherlands in our game period ? must have been after 1747

Yeah the position went hereditary after that point. I think though that mandead is trying to differentiate out the few people who were appointed king (like Napoleon's brother) although I'm not sure that make sense once the stadtholderate became truly hereditary.

Personally, I've been working on a revamp of the file as there are currently many mistakes.
 
Jan 9, 2005
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YodaMaster said:
I think we can keep "van..." for 060002, 060003 and the leader (is the 060002 monarch).
Would you prefer Willem van Oranje or Willem I?
 
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Garbon said:
Personally, I've been working on a revamp of the file as there are currently many mistakes.
Would you be so bold as to email me it? :eek:o ;)
 

Toio

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event below missing trigger as there are 2 inheritance events

#(1539-1560) Loss of Guelders in 1543
event = {
id = 200011
trigger = {
OR = {
event = 75006 #KLE: Inheritance of Guelders
event = 75011 #KLE: Wilhelm was elected Duke of Guelders
}

neighbour = SPA
}
random = no
country = KLE
name = "EVENTNAME200011" #Treaty of Venlo
desc = "EVENTHIST200011"
#-#Despite some initial successes and support from France, Kleve could not hold the Duchy of Guelders for long in their war against Habsburg. Spanish elite troops that had just completed a campaign in North Africa decided the war and committed terrible massacres among the populace. Wilhelm V eventually resigned and accepted the Treaty of Venlo, forcing him to revoke his claim on Guelders forever, to cancel all the religious reforms he and his father had enacted and to end his alliance with France, on September 7th 1543.

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1539 }
offset = 5
deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1560 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME200011A" #Sign the treaty
command = { type = removecore which = 338 } #Geldre
command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 100 }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -100 }
command = { type = relation which = SAC value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = HES value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = PFA value = -50 }
command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = -2 }
command = { type = religion which = catholic }
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME200011B" #Reject the treaty
command = { type = relation which = SPA value = -200 }
command = { type = war which = SPA }
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 100 }
command = { type = relation which = SAC value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = HES value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = PFA value = 50 }
}
}
 

Canenald

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monarchs.fri doesn't seem right. It starts with chieftains of Jever (Edo Wiemken and Hayo Harldas), then jumps to Wibet von Esens of the Esens, then to a rival family of Wittmunds with Tanne von Wittmund and then ends correctly with Sibet von Dornum and Hero Oomkens.

Although some earlier posts suggest that it has been agreed that Friesen represents West Frisia, Frieslands monarchs are all from East Frisia. I think we should choose one family and stick with their monarchs for Friesland.

This page: http://www.tacitus.nu/historical-atlas/regents/benelux/frisia.htm has a list of rulers of Jever. They are the House of Wimkrok.

If we opt for the union of Esens and Wittmunds, this page has some info: http://harlingen1.tripod.com/id3.html . Since the two families were united by a third family that ruled the declining city of Stedesdorf, I think their line should be used if we choose this option. It should be:
Hero Oomkens the Elder (-1440) (married into Esens)
Sibet von Dornum (1440-1473) (conquered Wittmund married Onna Oomkens)
Hero Oomkens the Younger (1473-1522)
Balthasar Oomkens von Esens (1522-1540)
If necessary, the line can be extended by Balthasar's sister, Onna Oomkens or her husband, Otto von Rietber (1540-1560)

In my humble opinion, if eastern families are used, we should use the Cirksena from the first link I provided. Friesland is a part of HRE in the game and Cirksena were made counts of the Empire. Their line is also the longest, providing monarchs for Friesland should it survive too long (until 1744).
 

Canenald

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I'm also not sure that Ljouwert is a good capital of Friesen. It has already lost importance in 15th century and has no port. Groningen seems like a logical choice if Friesen represents West Frisia. For East Frisia, Esens and Wittmunds were based in Jever and Wittmund respectively. Stedesdorf might be a good choice because its families united Esens and Wittmunds, but it too is a declining city like Ljouwert. I have no idea where the Cirksena family were based.
 

Toio

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Lord Grave said:
monarchs.fri doesn't seem right. It starts with chieftains of Jever (Edo Wiemken and Hayo Harldas), then jumps to Wibet von Esens of the Esens, then to a rival family of Wittmunds with Tanne von Wittmund and then ends correctly with Sibet von Dornum and Hero Oomkens.

Although some earlier posts suggest that it has been agreed that Friesen represents West Frisia, Frieslands monarchs are all from East Frisia. I think we should choose one family and stick with their monarchs for Friesland.

This page: http://www.tacitus.nu/historical-atlas/regents/benelux/frisia.htm has a list of rulers of Jever. They are the House of Wimkrok.

If we opt for the union of Esens and Wittmunds, this page has some info: http://harlingen1.tripod.com/id3.html . Since the two families were united by a third family that ruled the declining city of Stedesdorf, I think their line should be used if we choose this option. It should be:
Hero Oomkens the Elder (-1440) (married into Esens)
Sibet von Dornum (1440-1473) (conquered Wittmund married Onna Oomkens)
Hero Oomkens the Younger (1473-1522)
Balthasar Oomkens von Esens (1522-1540)
If necessary, the line can be extended by Balthasar's sister, Onna Oomkens or her husband, Otto von Rietber (1540-1560)

In my humble opinion, if eastern families are used, we should use the Cirksena from the first link I provided. Friesland is a part of HRE in the game and Cirksena were made counts of the Empire. Their line is also the longest, providing monarchs for Friesland should it survive too long (until 1744).


i think we have it very good at the moment, but for some minor changes, I tried to fit chieftains that represented both the middle and east frisia.

as per your second link we do use these "monarchs"
 

Toio

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Lord Grave said:
I'm also not sure that Ljouwert is a good capital of Friesen. It has already lost importance in 15th century and has no port. Groningen seems like a logical choice if Friesen represents West Frisia. For East Frisia, Esens and Wittmunds were based in Jever and Wittmund respectively. Stedesdorf might be a good choice because its families united Esens and Wittmunds, but it too is a declining city like Ljouwert. I have no idea where the Cirksena family were based.

I think the capital should stay as is, we have an event that makes Groningen more important.
Basically Ljouwert is the capital of middle frisia
and Groningen fist then esens later where the capitals of east frisia

There is no west frisia as this land is in our province of holland, as per your first link map.
people always got confused by what people refer to frisia. see map again

IIRC the families of middle and east frisia geographically went like (
Harlingerland, stedesdorf, wittmund, - middle frisia
jever -east frisia
cirksena - east frisia and western oldenburg)
 

Toio

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as for changes of monarchs for Frisia, I used the strongest, the families which formed the COA and the ones which suited our game. With this in mind , some holes could be filled by the list below

historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 050500 }
startdate = {
day = 1
month = january
year = 1419
}
deathdate = {
day = 11
month = september
year = 1420
}
name = "Edo Wiemken" #the elder
DIP = 3
ADM = 5
MIL = 3
dormant = no
remark = "his death date is unknown, be it 1411, 1416 or 1420"
}

historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 050517 }
startdate = {
day = 11
month = september
year = 1420
}
deathdate = {
day = 15
month = april
year = 1433
}
name = "Sibeth Papinga"
DIP = 2
ADM = 2
MIL = 4
dormant = no
remark = "Warrior Chief of the Manslagt branch of the Jever family"
}

historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 050510 }
startdate = {
day = 15
month = april
year = 1433
}
deathdate = {
day = 15
month = april
year = 1438
}
name = "Hayo Harldas"
DIP = 4
ADM = 4
MIL = 2
dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 050511 }
startdate = {
day = 16
month = april
year = 1438
}
deathdate = { day = 22
month = october
year = 1447
}
name = "Wibet von Esens"
DIP = 4
ADM = 4
MIL = 5
dormant = no
remark = "His heraldic sign was a lion d'Or on a field of azure"
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 050512 }
startdate = {
day = 23
month = october
year = 1447
}
deathdate = {
day = 2
month = september
year = 1461
}
name = "Tanne von Wittmund"
DIP = 4
ADM = 5
MIL = 2
dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 050513 }
startdate = {
day = 3
month = september
year = 1461
}
deathdate = {
day = 10
month = may
year = 1473
}
name = "Sibet von Dornum"
DIP = 3
ADM = 4
MIL = 6
dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 050514 }
startdate = {
day = 11
month = may
year = 1473
}
deathdate = {
day = 9
month = june
year = 1522
}
name = "Hero Oomkens" #the Younger
DIP = 5
ADM = 5
MIL = 6
dormant = no
remark = "His heraldric sign was a pair of jousting lances (or scourges) d'Or on a field of azure"
}


The one issue I had is that the COA of frisia ( blue backround, gold lion and gold lances) was first used in 1475. I did not want to bother yoda with making COA for the weimken era , attena era , jever families

the remainder of the monarchs are fine and can remain as is
 
Last edited:
Jan 9, 2005
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re Wiemken the Elder, this site cites his death as 1410.
 

Canenald

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I don't like the way FRI_171006 is unavoidable. I think bad events caused by the situation in the country should be avoidable, like the Frech Revolution. Here's my proposal:


Oldenburg goes independent only if FRI has no core on it, in other words, if they didn't choose to reunite Frisia as choice b in FRI_22016.

Code:
#(1420-1550) Chieftains quarrel in Frisia [COLOR=Yellow]- I[/COLOR]
event = {
	id = 171006
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 335 data = -1 } #Oldenburg
		[COLOR=Yellow]NOT = { core = { province = 335 data = -1 } }[/COLOR]
		atwar = no
	}
	random = no
	country = FRI
	name = "EVENTNAME171006" #Frisian quarrels
	desc = "EVENTHIST171006"

	date = { day = 4 month = january year = 1420 }
	offset = 90
	deathdate = { day = 14 month = november year = 1550 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME171006A" #Frisian quarrels
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		command = { type = independence which = OLD }
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = sleepevent which = 171009 } #FRI: Chieftains quarrel in Frisia - II[/COLOR]
	}
}
#-#Despite efforts to unite the Frisian people, the various powerful chiefs could not agree on a single all powerful ruler for greater Friesland.


If FRI has a core on Oldenburg, they still get some nasty revolts in the province if they are not centralized enough. Centralization for FRI would mean that one family or alliance of families is gaining the upper hand. Two revolts should be quite a problem for FRI which can support a little more than 10000 soldiers (my Friesland with Geldre and Oldenburg can have 12000 at best).

Code:
#(1420-1550) Chieftains quarrel in Frisia - II
event = {
	id = 171009
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 335 data = -1 } #Oldenburg
		core = { province = 335 data = -1 }
		NOT = { domestic = { type = centralization value = 4 } }
		atwar = no
	}
	random = no
	country = FRI
	name = "EVENTNAME171006" #Frisian quarrels
	desc = "EVENTHIST171006"

	date = { day = 4 month = january year = 1420 }
	offset = 90
	deathdate = { day = 14 month = november year = 1550 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME171006A" #Frisian quarrels
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = 337 } #Friesen
		command = { type = revolt which = 337 } #Friesen
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 171006 } #FRI: Chieftains quarrel in Frisia - I
	}
}
#-#Despite efforts to unite the Frisian people, the various powerful chiefs could not agree on a single all powerful ruler for greater Friesland.



If FRI has a core on Oldenburg and they have a similar situation in Holland, the goal set with FRI_22016B is fulfilled and they get a nice little reward event.

Code:
#(1420-1820) Frisia finally united
event = {
	id = 171010
	trigger = {
		core = { province = 335 data = -1 } #Oldenburg
		owned = { province = 335 data = -1 } #Oldenburg
		control = { province = 335 data = -1 } #Oldenburg
		core = { province = 377 data = -1 } #Friesen
		owned = { province = 377 data = -1 } #Friesen
		control = { province = 377 data = -1 } #Friesen
		core = { province = 339 data = -1 } #Holland
		owned = { province = 339 data = -1 } #Holland
		control = { province = 339 data = -1 } #Holland
		OR = {
			event = 171006 #FRI: Chieftains quarrel in Frisia - I
			event = 171009 #FRI: Chieftains quarrel in Frisia - II
			domestic = { type = centralization value = 4 }
		}
		atwar = no
	}
	random = no
	country = FRI
	name = "EVENTNAME171010" #Frisia finally united
	desc = "EVENTHIST171010"

	date = { day = 4 month = january year = 1420 }
	offset = 300
	deathdate = { year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Great" #
		command = { type = vp value = 50 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 171006 } #FRI: Chieftains quarrel in Frisia - I
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 171009 } #FRI: Chieftains quarrel in Frisia - II
	}
}
#-#As promised when 'Coronike van Vrieslant' was published, we have united the Greater Frisia despite the quarrelsome nature of our people.
 

Canenald

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Another possible problem with FRI is the 10 province_revoltrisk they gain in FRI_22010 because of internal conflicts. It is reduced by 5 by FRI_22006 or FRI_22018 (when Albrecht takes control), but the other 5 remains forever for FRI. Will this province_revoltrisk go away if FRI becomes HOL?
 

Toio

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Lord Grave said:
Another possible problem with FRI is the 10 province_revoltrisk they gain in FRI_22010 because of internal conflicts. It is reduced by 5 by FRI_22006 or FRI_22018 (when Albrecht takes control), but the other 5 remains forever for FRI. Will this province_revoltrisk go away if FRI becomes HOL?

yes
 

Toio

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mandead said:
re Wiemken the Elder, this site cites his death as 1410.


german site has

Edo Wiemken der Ältere († 1415)

other site have different death date, some even have that he started building jever castle in 1418?
 

Toio

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New Leader for FRI

historicalleader = {
id = { type = 6 id = 050808 }
category = general
name = "Ygo Galama"
startdate = {
year = 1487
}
deathdate = {
year = 1492
}
rank = 3
movement = 2
fire = 3
shock = 3
siege = 0
dormant = no
}
 

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Why does brabant get french culture, surely they should only have dutch