AGC-EEP Holland

Garbon · Feb 7, 2008

YodaMaster said:
For me, it is still Brabant. Do you mean CoA shouldn't be reworked?

I almost wonder if it wouldn't make sense to have the CoA with Brabant and Holland(or Hainault) or two quadrants Brabant, one Holland(or Hainault), and one Limburg. Of all the counties involved, Limburg is the most insignificant.

YodaMaster said:
At least, I think the flag should remain unchanged.

Well what happens if Brabant revolts in Holland? Does its current flag make sense?

YodaMaster said:
What about monarchs? Do we keep Nevers-Reuthel dynasty?

I think that might be okay, given that all rulers of those counties, when independent, were related to the house of Burgundy.

unmerged(40707) · Feb 7, 2008

About post #740:

FRI_22011 was triggered by HLL_88017. Dates should be the same:

Code:

	date = { day = 15 month = june year = 1420 }
	offset = 14
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = july year = 1420 }

FRI_22012 was triggered by HLL_88017 B. I suggest to simply remove it.

FRI_22013 should then not be triggered but, according to HLL_88018, event should be reworked this way (including Toio's addition):

Code:

#(1420) Reaction to Jan becoming lord of Frisia
event = {
	id = 22013 [COLOR=Red]#triggered by HLL_88018[/COLOR]
	random = no
	country = FRI
	name = "EVENTNAME22013" #Jan of Bavaria becomes lord of Frisia
	desc = "EVENTHIST22013"
	#-#

	[COLOR=Yellow]date = { day = 4 month = october year = 1420 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 4 month = november year = 1420 }[/COLOR]

	action_a = {
		name = "DAMN"
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = revolt which = 337 } #Friesen[/COLOR]
	}
}

#-#Despite their previous reconciliation effort, the Schieringers came to Jan once more, this time Jan accepted and became lord over Friesland.

Since FRI_22015 was triggered by HLL_88019 (and not 88018 - typo in the comment), I don't see why FRI_22014 should trigger it:

Code:

#(1422) Breaking the vassalization
event = {
	id = 22015 [COLOR=Red]#triggered by HLL_88018[/COLOR]
	[COLOR=Yellow]trigger = {
		vassal = { country = HAU country = FRI }
	}[/COLOR]
	random = no
	country = FRI
	name = "EVENTNAME22015" #Jan loses control of the Schieringers
	desc = "EVENTHIST22015"
	#-#

	[COLOR=Yellow]date = { day = 16 month = august year = 1422 }[/COLOR]

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME22015A" #Freedom!
		command = { type = breakvassal which = [COLOR=Red]HLL[/COLOR][COLOR=Yellow]HAU[/COLOR] }
	}
}

#-#After stepping on the Shieringers' toes once too many, Jan lost control of the Schieringers. After losing Dokkum, his last foothold in Friesland, on the 29th (or the 30th) of May 1422, the treaty ending his Frisian adventure was signed on the 17th of August.

@Toio: remember range for days is 0-29 => 17th = 16 in EU2

About trigger in new FRI_171002, Oldenburg and Gelderland will always be neighbour with current map but what happens if Burgundy is neighbour but Holland not owned by Burgundy?

If I understand correctly, event should fire only if the GEL, OLD and BUR are on the map, right? No possiblity if only two of them or only one is here?

Couldn't we test the size of Friesland?

About post #741:

Reverting CoA/flag in FRI_22017 to default should be:

Code:

		command = { type = flagname which = "" }

Is the provincetax loss directly tied to increase in new FRI_171003?

If yes, we should have two events. First one is the same as current one but with trigger testing 171003 never happened. Second one includes Toio's proposal and with trigger testing if 171003 happened. Both events will sleep each other (they are really exclusive but engine doesn't need to continue testing the other when one of them already fired).

After reviewing Toio's posts, I wonder why former starting sequence for HLL (88017, 88018 and 88019) is not simply moved to LUX (Jan of Bavaria) but only if Luxemburg owns or controls Holland. Some of the events exist in Luxemburg file (213003, 213004) with control of Holland as a condition but they are not connected to Friesland ones. Only missing one is in 1422 (88019). I'm not sure FRI_22015 should involve HAU but LUX instead. This is not the same Jan in Brabant and Luxemburg.
We even have a specific event LUX_213005 for independence of Friesland between 1420 and 1425.

unmerged(40707) · Feb 7, 2008

Garbon said:
I almost wonder if it wouldn't make sense to have the CoA with Brabant and Holland(or Hainault) or two quadrants Brabant, one Holland(or Hainault), and one Limburg. Of all the counties involved, Limburg is the most insignificant.

Like this:

Hainault in the upper right quadrant because it is more important than Limburg.

Garbon said:
Well what happens if Brabant revolts in Holland? Does its current flag make sense?

It is indeed more suited for North Brabant and only if capital is in Brabant province... I forgot Zeeland and new minimum for HAU in revolt.txt. In this case, we have no choice. Flag will have to be the same as the CoA.

Garbon said:
I think that might be okay, given that all rulers of those counties, when independent, were related to the house of Burgundy.

No change for monarchs.hau then.

Is proposed added CoA/flag change command for HAU_3775 in post #760 still valid or not? I don't think so now. Duchy of Brabant remains independent and doesn't change since dukes of Limburg are not involved. New CoA/flag will be only for a revolter.

unmerged(40707) · Feb 7, 2008

Other questions about removal of HLL - Burgundy

Code:

#(1419) Jan VI and the Treaty of Woudrichem
#from EEP 1.4.2b adapted by Bordic
event = {
	id = 88003 #triggered by HLL_88000 A
	random = no
	country = BUR
	name = "EVENTNAME88003" #Jan VI and the Treaty of Woudrichem
	desc = "EVENTHIST88000"
	#-#

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME88003A" #Hainaut is ours!
		command = { type = DIP which = 2 value = 12 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 379 } #Artois (Hainaut in a new map)
	}
}

#-#From 1417 to 1419, Jacqueline feuded with her uncle, Jan VI of Bavaria, over who would inherit the County of Holland. Jan gathered support from the Kabeljauws, the Pope, and the Emperor Sigismund to force Jacqueline from the county. In the end, a treaty drafted by Philip III of Burgundy ended the fighting, by seceding Hainaut to Jan, and making Jan her 'tutor', basically forcing Jacqueline to be a puppet of Jan. The County of Hainaut was essentially now a part of Burgundy.

Couldn't HLL_88000 be for HAU, at least without action_b and not countrysize condition and maybe other tweaks (extended date and no war between LUX and HAU)?

Involved event:

Code:

#(1419) Jan VI and the Treaty of Woudrichem
event = {
	id = 88000
	trigger = {
		countrysize = 2
		owned = { province = 379 data = -1 } #Artois (Hainaut in a new map)
	}
	random = no
	country = HLL
	name = "EVENTNAME88000" #The Treaty of Woudrichem
	desc = "EVENTHIST88000"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = march year = 1419 }
	offset = 300
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1419 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME88000A" #Jan VI wins
		command = { type = relation which = BUR value = 50 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = BUR value = 379 } #Artois
		command = { type = trigger which = 88003 } #BUR: Jan VI and the Treaty of Woudrichem
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME88000B" #Jacqueline wins
		command = { type = relation which = BUR value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -25 }
		command = { type = relation which = HAB value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -50 }
		command = { type = MIL which = 3 value = 200 }
		command = { type = ADM which = 3 value = 200 }
		command = { type = DIP which = 3 value = 200 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 88001 } #HLL: Jacqueline's displeasure of John IV of Brabant
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 88002 } #HLL: Jacqueline's failed invasion of Hainaut
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 88012 } #HLL: Jacqueline's successful invasion of Hainaut
		command = { type = war which = BUR }
	}
}

#-#From 1417 to 1419, Jacqueline feuded with her uncle, Jan VI of Bavaria, over who would inherit the County of Holland. Jan gathered support from the Kabeljauws, the Pope, and the Emperor Sigismund to force Jacqueline from the county. In the end, a treaty drafted by Philip III of Burgundy ended the fighting, by seceding Hainaut to Jan, and making Jan her 'tutor', basically forcing Jacqueline to be a puppet of Jan. The County of Hainaut was essentially now a part of Burgundy.

EDIT: better remove 88003. Not easy to model Hainault being owned by Brabant but seceded to Burgundy because Jan VI wins. If Jan VI wins, it means Artois is controlled or owned by Luxemburg. Why would Burgundy get the province and the core then? Better wait 1430 and inheritance of Brabant (at least it should be 1432 and Jacqueline forced to abdicate)

Code:

#(1423) The Duke of Gloucester and the Countess of Hainaut
event = {
	id = 3893
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 379 data = -1 }
		[COLOR=Red]NOT = { exists = HLL }[/COLOR]
	}
	random = no
	country = BUR
	name = "EVENTNAME3893" #The Duke of Gloucester and the Countess of Hainaut
	desc = "EVENTHIST3893"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1423 }
	offset = 300
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1423 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3893A" #How dare they!
		command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -50 }
		command = { type = revolt which = 379 } #Artois
	}
}

#-#Jacqueline, the Countess of Hainaut and Holland, has, by dubious means, divorced our cousin the Duke of Brabant and has married the English Duke of Gloucester, the King's uncle. This sudden elopement endangers our deep influence in her domains and threatens to replace it with English influence instead. To add insult to injury, she and her new 'husband' (although to use the term is dubious, as many believe the union is bigamous) have landed an army in Hainaut in order to take complete control of the County!

Code:

#(1428-1435) Treaty of Delft
event = {
	id = 137307
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			event = 2200002 #ENG: Jacqueline of Hainault
			event = 2200003 #ENG: Jacqueline of Hainault
		}
		[COLOR=Yellow]exists = ENG[/COLOR]
		NOT = {
			OR = {
				event = 2200019 #ENG: Treaty of Amsterdam
				[COLOR=Red]owned = { province = 379 data = HLL }[/COLOR]
				owned = { province = 379 data = ENG }
			}
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = BUR
	name = "EVENTNAME137307" #Treaty of Delft
	desc = "EVENTHIST137307"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = july year = 1428 }
	offset = 15
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1435 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GOOD"
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -25 }
		[COLOR=Red]command = { type = relation which = HLL value = 50 }[/COLOR]
	}
}

#-#Jacqueline's attempt to secure her inheritance of the lowlands has failed miserably, and her pitiful rebellion has disintegrated. Moreover, her English husband has abandoned her and a papal decree has annulled the marriage. Imprisoned at Ghent, Jacqueline was forced to sign the Treaty of Delft, which recognized her as nominal countess and Philip Duke of Burgundy as her administrator and heir.

Code:

#(1428-1435) Treaty of Delft (ENG having backed Gloucester)
event = {
	id = 137308
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			event = 2200002 #ENG: Jacqueline of Hainault
			event = 2200003 #ENG: Jacqueline of Hainault
		}
		[COLOR=Yellow]exists = ENG[/COLOR]
		NOT = {
			OR = {
				event = 2200019 #Treaty of Amsterdam
				[COLOR=Red]owned = { province = 379 data = HLL }[/COLOR]
				owned = { province = 379 data = ENG }
				war = { country = ENG country = BUR }
				war = { country = ENG country = HAU }
			}
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = BUR
	name = "EVENTNAME13730[COLOR=Red]8[/COLOR][COLOR=Yellow]7[/COLOR]" #Treaty of Delft
	desc = "EVENTHIST137308"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = july year = 1428 }
	offset = 15
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1435 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GOOD"
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -50 }
		[COLOR=Red]command = { type = relation which = HLL value = 50 }[/COLOR]
	}
}

#-#Jacqueline's attempt to secure her inheritance of the lowlands has failed miserably, and her pitiful rebellion has disintegrated. Moreover, her English husband has abandoned her and a papal decree has annulled the marriage. Imprisoned at Ghent, she's was forced to sign the Treaty of Delft, which recognized her as nominal countess and Philip Duke of Burgundy as her administrator and heir. Burgundy has dealt a terrific blow to England's prestige.

BUR_88010 and BUR_88004 are only the consequence of existence of HLL (and Jacqueline) in 1428 after Delft and can be removed.

Code:

#(1430-1440) The Burgundian Capital
event = {
	id = 137000
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 378 data = -1 }
		control = { province = 378 data = -1 }
	}
	random = no
	country = BUR
	name = "EVENTNAME137000" #The Burgundian Capital
	desc = "EVENTHIST137000"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1430 }
	offset = 1
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1440 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME137000A" #Move to Brussels and focus expansion throughout the Lowlands
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
		command = { type = capital which = 378 } #Brabant
		command = { type = addcore which = 378 } #Brabant
		command = { type = setflag which = [Brussels] }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = dutch }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 20100 } #BUR: The Crown of France
		command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = 1 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME137000B" #Remain in Dijon and focus on subjugating France
		command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 100 }
		[COLOR=Red]command = { type = relation which = HLL value = 100 } #County of Holland[/COLOR]
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -50 }
		[COLOR=Red]command = { type = sleepevent which = 88005 } #HLL: The Hoeks and the Kabeljauws
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 88008 } #HLL: The Death of Jacoba[/COLOR]
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 75003 } #GEL: The sale of Gelre
	}
}

#-#The Duchy of Burgundy was originally a French state, but with the acquisitions of Flanders, Hainault, and Namur the core of the duchy shifted North to the Netherlands. In time Burgundian monarchs absorbed Dutch culture, and when Brussels fell into the hands of Philip the Good he decided to move his royal court.

Same with this event in HYW file:

Code:

#(1477 or 1485) The Estate of Charles the Bold
event = {
	id = 1000072 #triggered by FRA_1000071 or FRA_1000079
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 378 data = -1 } #Brabant
		control = { province = 378 data = -1 } #Brabant
	}
	random = no
	country = BUR
	name = "EVENTNAME1000072" #The Estate of Charles the Bold
	desc = "EVENTHIST1000072"
	#-#

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME1000072A" #Rule from Brussels
		command = { type = capital which = 378 } #Brabant
		command = { type = setflag which = [Brussels] }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = dutch }
		command = { type = addcore which = 376 } #Champagne
		command = { type = addcore which = 383 } #Picardie
		command = { type = addcore which = 386 } #Nivernais
		command = { type = addcore which = 338 } #Geldre
		command = { type = INF which = -2 value = 3000 }
		command = { type = CAV which = -2 value = 2000 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 20100 } #BUR: The Crown of France
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME1000072B" #Rule from Dijon
		command = { type = addcore which = 376 } #Champagne
		command = { type = addcore which = 383 } #Picardie
		command = { type = addcore which = 386 } #Nivernais
		command = { type = addcore which = 338 } #Geldre
		command = { type = INF which = -2 value = 3000 }
		command = { type = CAV which = -2 value = 2000 }
		[COLOR=Red]command = { type = sleepevent which = 88005 } #HLL: The Hoeks and the Kabeljauws
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 88008 } #HLL: The Death of Jacoba[/COLOR]
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 75003 } #GEL: The sale of Gelre
	}
}

#-#If the succession of Philip the Good, in spite of his lack of legitimacy to the throne, had not posed a problem, it did at a time when the line of Valois-Burgundy seemed firmly established. A major crisis began when King Charles left a girl, Mary, as his only heir. If her rights on the Duchy of Burgundy and the other patrimonial lands could not be disputed, it was not so with the Crown of France, which could not fall to a woman. Who would finally claim the throne was far from obvious.

BUR_88006, BUR_88007 are tied to HLL_88005 and Jacqueline and can be removed. Same for BUR_88009 and death of Jacqueline in 1436.

Toio · Feb 7, 2008

Garbon said:
WTF? Why are we giving any prominence to Limburg? It was piratically a non-entity so why would it get priority over Brabant?

/if you look at your wiki link, Limburg is tiny

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_limburg

? ok, .....Brabant/Limburg

Basically I do not care what flag you use , even if its the HLL flag for a brabant revolter

I just want to have clarity in the game :

Is that brabant which was not annexed by burgundy OR is that the brabant , the revolter.

Toio · Feb 7, 2008

Garbon said:
I almost wonder if it wouldn't make sense to have the CoA with Brabant and Holland(or Hainault) or two quadrants Brabant, one Holland(or Hainault), and one Limburg. Of all the counties involved, Limburg is the most insignificant.

Well what happens if Brabant revolts in Holland? Does its current flag make sense?

I think that might be okay, given that all rulers of those counties, when independent, were related to the house of Burgundy.

I prefer to use a simple COA (for the brabant revolter) as this link (top coa on site)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counts_of_Hainaut

or even this flag from this link like the old EEP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Brabant

unmerged(40707) · Feb 7, 2008

Other questions about removal of HLL - England

Code:

#(1422) Jacqueline of Hainault
event = {
	id = 2200002
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			event = 2200000 #ENG: Henry VI's Minority
			event = 2200001 #ENG: Henry VI's Minority
		}
		[COLOR=Red]NOT = {
			owned = { province = 379 data = HLL }
			owned = { province = 339 data = HLL }
		}[/COLOR]
	}
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME2200002" #Jacqueline of Hainault
	desc = "EVENTHIST2200002"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = november year = 1422 }
	offset = 60
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1425 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME2200002A" #Renounce any claims to the inheritance and denounce Gloucester's private efforts
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -25 }
		command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
		command = { type = relation which = HAU value = -25 }
		command = { type = relation which = BUR value = -25 }
		command = { type = relation which = LUX value = -25 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200007 } #ENG: Failure in the Lowland Countries
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200019 } #ENG: Treaty of Amsterdam
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 137308 } #BUR: Treaty of Delft
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME2200002B" #The inheritance is rightfully ours!
		command = { type = relation which = HAU value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = BUR value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = LUX value = -100 }
		command = { type = casusbelli which = BUR value = 24 }
		command = { type = casusbelli which = HAU value = 24 }
		command = { type = casusbelli which = LUX value = 24 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 339 } #Holland
		command = { type = addcore which = 379 } #Artois
		command = { type = badboy value = 2 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200004 } #ENG: Jacqueline is Captured
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200005 } #ProvinceSpec*379: Jacqueline's Escape
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200006 } #ENG: Failure in the Lowland Countries
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 1000116 } #ENG: Proposal at Amiens
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 1000117 } #BUR: Treaty of Amiens
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 137307 } #BUR: Treaty of Delft
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME2200002C" #Force Gloucester to withdraw his claims and appease Jacqueline with estates in England
		command = { type = treasury value = -25 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = relation which = HAU value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = BUR value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = LUX value = 50 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 3893 } #BUR: The Duke of Gloucester and the Countess of Hainaut
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 182002 } #HAU: Jacquelin's invasion of Hainault
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 213000 } #LUX: Jacquelin's invasion of Hainault
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200004 } #ENG: Jacqueline is Captured
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200005 } #ProvinceSpec*379: Jacqueline's Escape
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200006 } #ENG: Failure in the Low Countries
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200007 } #ENG: Failure in the Low Countries
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200019 } #ENG: Treaty of Amsterdam
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 137307 } #BUR: Treaty of Delft
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 137308 } #BUR: Treaty of Delft
	}
}

#-#William, Count of Holland and Hainault died in 1417, leaving one daughter, Jacqueline. Jacqueline had been married to the late Dauphin of France, who had died only a few weeks before her father. At the time, King Henry V had made overtures for the lady's hand for his brother John, Duke of Bedford, but her mother, the sister of the late Duke of Burgundy, John 'the Fearless', saw to it that the young widow married John, Duke of Brabant. John was Philip's nephew and his father had been killed by the English at Agincourt. The marriage may well have been void on the grounds of consanguinity, because John and Jacqueline were cousins, but its political justification lay in keeping Hainault within Burgundy's control. John 'the Fearless', and his son and successor, Philip 'the Good', had understood this all too well. Jacqueline had been passed over for the succession to the counties on her father's death in 1417 in favor of her uncle, John of Bavaria. However, the Duke of Brabant had simply ceded much of Jacqueline's inheritance to the Duke of Bavaria in order to settle the dispute. A diplomatic move that had not been received well by Jacqueline. Furious over her dull husband's inability to secure the inheritance, Jacqueline had left him. In 1421, she fled to London, where she met Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester. Within two years, they announced their intention of getting married. The two needed a Papal dispensation for the marriage, which Pope Martin V would not supply. Thus, Gloucester approached the recently displaced Pope Benedict XIII, who was happy to spite Pope Martin by granting the annulment. Their marriage entitled Gloucester to the counties of Holland, Zeeland and Hainult, albeit at a cost. The Courts of Europe were scandalised by what they had done. Philip was incandescent with rage and made it clear that he had suffered a grave affront which he felt most deeply. Believing, with good reason, that Jacqueline's inheritance of Hainault would never be surrendered to her peacefully, Gloucester saw seizure by force as the only alternative. The Council was finding it difficult to keep Gloucester in order, and it may well be that his enterprise was aimed at defying the wishes of the Council which had spurned him under the leadership of Bishop Beaufort. Nevertheless, they warned him that any such a venture into Hainault would be seen as a hostile act against Burgundy herself.

Code:

#(1422-1425) Jacqueline of Hainault (Gloucester is Regent of England)
event = {
	id = 2200003
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			event = 2200000 #ENG: Henry VI's Minority
			event = 2200001 #ENG: Henry VI's Minority
		}
		[COLOR=Red]NOT = {
			owned = { province = 379 data = HLL }
			owned = { province = 339 data = HLL }
		}[/COLOR]
	}
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME2200003" #Jacqueline of Hainault
	desc = "EVENTHIST2200003"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = november year = 1422 }
	offset = 60
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1425 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME2200003A" #Reject Jacqueline's overtures for marriage, but privately fund her efforts
		command = { type = treasury value = -50 }
		command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
		command = { type = relation which = BUR value = -25 }
		command = { type = relation which = HAU value = -25 }
		command = { type = relation which = LUX value = -25 }
		command = { type = badboy value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200007 } #ENG: Failure in the Lowland Countries
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200019 } #ENG: Treaty of Amsterdam
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 137308 } #BUR: Treaty of Delft
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME2200003B" #These lands are rightfully ours!
		command = { type = relation which = HAU value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = BUR value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = LUX value = -100 }
		command = { type = casusbelli which = BUR value = 24 }
		command = { type = casusbelli which = HAU value = 24 }
		command = { type = casusbelli which = LUX value = 24 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 339 } #Holland
		command = { type = addcore which = 379 } #Artois
		command = { type = badboy value = 2 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200004 } #ENG: Jacqueline is Captured
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200005 } #ProvinceSpec*379: Jacqueline's Escape
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200006 } #ENG: Failure in the Lowland Countries
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 1000116 } #ENG: Proposal at Amiens
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 1000117 } #BUR: Treaty of Amiens
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 137307 } #BUR: Treaty of Delft
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME2200003C" #Withdraw the claims altogether and appease Jacqueline with estates in England
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -25 }
		command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = -1 }
		command = { type = relation which = HAU value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = BUR value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = LUX value = 50 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 3893 } #BUR: The Duke of Gloucester and the Countess of Hainaut
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 182002 } #HAU: Jacquelin's invasion of Hainault
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 213000 } #LUX: Jacquelin's invasion of Hainault
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200004 } #ENG: Jacqueline is Captured
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200005 } #ProvinceSpec*379: Jacqueline's Escape
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200006 } #ENG: Failure in the Low Countries
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200007 } #ENG: Failure in the Low Countries
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200019 } #ENG: Treaty of Amsterdam
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 137307 } #BUR: Treaty of Delft
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 137308 } #BUR: Treaty of Delft
	}
}

#-#William, Count of Holland and Hainault died in 1417, leaving one daughter, Jacqueline. Jacqueline had been married to the late Dauphin of France, who had died only a few weeks before her father. At the time, King Henry V had made overtures for the lady's hand for his brother John, Duke of Bedford, but her mother, the sister of the late Duke of Burgundy, John 'the Fearless', saw to it that the young widow married John, Duke of Brabant. John was Philip's nephew and his father had been killed by the English at Agincourt. This marriage may well have been void on the grounds of consanguinity, because John and Jacqueline were cousins, but its political justification lay in keeping Hainault within Burgundy's control. John 'the Fearless', and his son and successor, Philip 'the Good', had understood this all too well. Jacqueline had been passed over for the succession to the counties on her father's death in 1417 in favor of her uncle, John of Bavaria. However, the Duke of Brabant had simply ceded much of Jacqueline's inheritance to the Duke of Bavaria in order to settle the dispute. A diplomatic move that had not been received well by Jacqueline. Furious over her dull husband's inability to secure the inheritance, Jacqueline had left him. In 1421, she fled to London, where she met Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester. Gloucester was well aware of the consequences of associating England with a family feud well within Burgundian jurisdiction. A marriage between Gloucester and Jacqueline would entitle him to the Counties of Holland, Zeeland and Hainault. Gloucester would require a special Papal dispensation, which the current Pope, Martin V, would likely decline to provide. However, a dispensation from the displaced Pope Benedict XIII was well within reach. If Gloucester were to act on impulse, Burgundy would be incandescent with rage and the Courts of Europe would scandalised by what had occurred. Nevertheless, there was more than enough reason to believe that the inheritance would never be surrendered to Jacqueline peacefully, and expanding England's foothold in the lowlands was a terribly tempting prospect.

Code:

#(1425-1426) Jacqueline is Captured
event = {
	id = 2200004
	random = no
	country = ENG
	trigger = {
		NOT = {
			[COLOR=Red]OR = {[/COLOR]
				owned = { province = 379 data = -1 }
				[COLOR=Red]exists = HLL
			}[/COLOR]
		}
		OR = {
			event = 2200002 #ENG: Jacqueline of Hainault
			event = 2200003 #ENG: Jacqueline of Hainault
		}
	}

	date = { day = 1 month = march year = 1425 }
	offset = 150
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1426 }

	name = "EVENTNAME2200004" #Jacqueline is Captured
	desc = "EVENTHIST2200004"
	#-#

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME2200004A" #Attempt a Rescue Effort!
		command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -15 }
		command = { type = relation which = BUR value = -25 }
		command = { type = relation which = HAU value = -25 }
		command = { type = relation which = LUX value = -25 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "OH_WELL"
		command = { type = relation which = BUR value = 15 }
		command = { type = relation which = HAU value = 15 }
		command = { type = relation which = LUX value = 15 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 2200005 } #ProvinceSpec*379: Jacqueline's Escape
	}
}

#-#Jacqueline's revolts in the low countries were crushed. The rebels had bungled their efforts and Gloucester's efforts served only to humiliate him. Gloucester abandoned her in disgrace. Jacqueline was soon afterwards imprisoned at Ghent, and Gloucester responded with an attempt to free her. If Jacqueline remained a captive, she would soon be obliged to make peace with Duke Philip of Burgundy, who sought to avenge her repudiation of his cousin, John IV Duke of Brabant.

Code:

#(1425-1427) Jacqueline's Escape
event = {
	id = 2200005
	trigger = {
		event = 2200004 #ENG: Jacqueline is Captured
		NOT = {
			[COLOR=Red]OR = {
				owned = { province = 379 data = HLL }[/COLOR]
				owned = { province = 379 data = ENG }
			[COLOR=Red]}[/COLOR]
		}
	}
	random = no
	province = 379 #Artois
	name = "EVENTNAME2200005" #Jacqueline's Escape
	desc = "EVENTHIST2200005"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1425 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1427 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME2200005A" #Find her!
		command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -15 }
		command = { type = revolt which = 379 } #Artois
		command = { type = revolt which = 379 } #Artois
	}
}

#-#Jacqueline, Countess of Hainault, Zeeland and Holland, the rebel who sought her father's inheritance and repudiated her marriage to John Dyuke of Brabant, had been held captive. She'd been struggling for control of her father's inheritance since his death in 1417. Having failed in her attempt at revolt, the Duke of Gloucester had financed an attempt to rescue her. Having caught wind of Gloucester's plan, Jacqueline's supporters revolted, and as a result she mounted a successful escape from Burgundian captivity.

unmerged(40707) · Feb 7, 2008

Other questions about removal of HLL - Netherlands

Code:

#(1559-1648) Creation of the Dutch Republic
event = {
	id = 3900
	trigger = {
		[COLOR=Red]OR = { #forces event to wait until Holland is ceded to HOL
			event = 369000 #HLL: The Dutch Republic[/COLOR]
			AND = {
				owned = { province = 339 data = -1 } #Holland
				control = { province = 339 data = -1 } #Holland
			}
			[COLOR=Red]exists = HLL #County of Holland
		}[/COLOR]
	}
	random = no
	country = HOL
	name = "EVENTNAME3900" #Creation of the Dutch Republic
	desc = "EVENTHIST3900"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1559 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1648 }

	action_a = {
		name = "MARVELLOUS"
		command = { type = flagname which = "Princevlag" }
		command = { type = setflag which = [Princevlag] }
		command = { type = addcore which = 337 } #Friesen
		command = { type = addcore which = 338 } #Geldre
		command = { type = addcore which = 339 } #Holland
		command = { type = addcore which = 340 } #Zeeland
		command = { type = addcore which = 378 } #Brabant
		command = { type = addcore which = 380 } #Flandern
		command = { type = capital which = 339 } #Holland
		command = { type = INF which = 339 value = 25000 }
		command = { type = CAV which = 339 value = 10000 }
		command = { type = ART which = 339 value = 50 }
		[COLOR=Red]#command = { type = trigger which = 3810 } #FLA: The Dutch Republic[/COLOR]
		command = { type = trigger which = 3808 } #FRI: The Dutch Republic
		command = { type = trigger which = 3806 } #GEL: The Dutch Republic
		command = { type = trigger which = 3812 } #HAU: The Dutch Republic
		[COLOR=Red]command = { type = trigger which = 369000 } #HLL: The Dutch Republic[/COLOR]
		command = { type = treasury value = 200 }
		command = { type = merchants value = 4 }
		command = { type = trade value = 300 }
	}
}

#-#A united Dutch Republic has broken free from the oppressors. This is a chance to unite the Netherlands at last...

HOL_186008 is tied to County of Holland joining and can be removed.

For Dutch revolts, all conditions exempting HLL can be removed:

Code:

	core = { province = 339 data = -1 } #exempt HLL

except for 337046 and 337047 where following AND condition should be modified:

Code:

AND = {
	core = { province = 339 data = -1 }
	[COLOR=Yellow]countrysize = 1 #exempt HAU only if capital can't be relocated[/COLOR]
	NOT = { flag = [HollandClaim] } #not exempt FRI
}

This condition should be added in 337044 and 337045 just in case Brabant owned the province and 337046 or 337047 fired before and capital was relocated...

EDIT: AND condition for 337046 and 337047 amended and added to 337044 and 337045.

EDIT2: condition

Code:

		NOT = { event = 186008 } #County of Holland joins the Netherlands

becomes useless in 337047 and can be removed (event 186008 is removed).

unmerged(40707) · Feb 7, 2008

Other questions about removal of HLL - Others

Code:

[COLOR=Red]#should only happen to Geldre, Oldenburg, Burgundy, Holland and Spain[/COLOR]
event = {
	id = 338227
	trigger = {
		[COLOR=Red]OR = {
			owned = { province = 337 data = GEL }
			owned = { province = 337 data = OLD }
			owned = { province = 337 data = BUR }
			owned = { province = 337 data = HLL }
			owned = { province = 337 data = SPA }
		}[/COLOR]
		domestic = { type = centralization value = 3 }
		domestic = { type = serfdom value = 3 }
		NOT = { year = [COLOR=Red]1570[/COLOR][COLOR=Yellow]1559[/COLOR] }
		NOT = { exists = FRI }
	}
	random = yes
	province = 337 #Friesen
	name = "EVENTNAME338227" #Frisian trouble
	desc = "EVENTHIST338227"
	#-#

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME338227A" #Let them fight us
		command = { type = revolt which = 337 } #Friesen
		command = { type = revolt which = 337 } #Friesen
		command = { type = revolt which = 337 } #Friesen
		command = { type = revolt which = 337 } #Friesen
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME338227B" #Grant more freedom
		command = { type = independence which = FRI }
	}
}

#-#While the civil war between Schieringers and Vetkopers continued to rage, the two parties often bound together in times of war.

EDIT: I don't understand why this event and twin 338228 only happen for specific countries. Any country owning Friesen should have the problem. Anyway Friesland can't revolt after 1558 now and better tweak date to 1559.

Same modification for 338228:

Code:

[COLOR=Red]#should only happen to Geldre, England, Burgundy, Spain and Denmark[/COLOR]
event = {
	id = 338228
	trigger = {
		[COLOR=Red]OR = {
			owned = { province = 337 data = GEL }
			owned = { province = 337 data = ENG }
			owned = { province = 337 data = BUR }
			owned = { province = 337 data = SPA }
			owned = { province = 337 data = DAN }
		}[/COLOR]
		domestic = { type = centralization value = 3 }
		domestic = { type = serfdom value = 3 }
		NOT = { year = [COLOR=Red]1570[/COLOR][COLOR=Yellow]1559[/COLOR] }
		NOT = { exists = FRI }
	}
	random = yes
	province = 337 #Friesen
	name = "EVENTNAME338227" #Frisian trouble
	desc = "EVENTHIST338227"
	#-#

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME338227A" #Let them fight us
		command = { type = revolt which = 337 } #Friesen
		command = { type = revolt which = 337 } #Friesen
		command = { type = revolt which = 337 } #Friesen
		command = { type = revolt which = 337 } #Friesen
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME338227B" #Grant more freedom
		command = { type = independence which = FRI }
	}
}

Code:

#(1550) Jean Calvin and William of Orange
#should only happen [COLOR=Red]to Hainault or[/COLOR] Netherlands
event = {
	id = 338230
	trigger = {
		religion = catholic
		[COLOR=Red]OR = {
			AND = {
				owned = { province = 339 data = HLL }
				control = { province = 339 data = HLL }
			}[/COLOR]
			AND = {
				owned = { province = 339 data = HOL }
				control = { province = 339 data = HOL }
			}
		[COLOR=Red]}[/COLOR]
	}
	random = no
	province = 339 #Holland
	name = "EVENTNAME338230" #Jean Calvin in Holland
	desc = "EVENTHIST338230"
	#-#

	date = { day = 14 month = june year = 1550 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME338230A" #Convert to Calvinism
		command = { type = religion which = reformed }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = serfdom value = -2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -2 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME338230B" #Remain Catholic
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = serfdom value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 }
	}
}

#-#Calvinism swept through the Low Countries creating many zealous followers, who were swept up not only in religious reformation but nationalism as well.

unmerged(40707) · Feb 7, 2008

Toio said:
I prefer to use a simple COA (for the brabant revolter) as this link (top coa on site)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counts_of_Hainaut

or even this flag from this link like the old EEP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Brabant

Isn't the top CoA very ancient?

In second link, mentioned flag is the one that is currently used for Brabant. I thought you were asking for a different flag... There is a problem with the use of this flag and capital of HAU revolter possibly outside Brabant province.

Toio · Feb 7, 2008

YodaMaster said:
About post #740:

FRI_22011 was triggered by HLL_88017. Dates should be the same:

Code:

date = { day = 15 month = june year = 1420 } offset = 14 deathdate = { day = 1 month = july year = 1420 }

amended

FRI_22012 was triggered by HLL_88017 B. I suggest to simply remove it.

i think it should stay in as the Vetkoper reaction, i do not see you reasoning,

Code:
FRI_22013 should then not be triggered but, according to HLL_88018, event should be reworked this way (including Toio's addition):

Code:

#(1420) Reaction to Jan becoming lord of Frisia event = { id = 22013 [COLOR=Yellow]#triggered by HLL_88018[/COLOR] random = no country = FRI name = "EVENTNAME22013" #Jan of Bavaria becomes lord of Frisia desc = "EVENTHIST22013" #-# [COLOR=Yellow]date = { day = 4 month = october year = 1420 } offset = 10 deathdate = { day = 4 month = november year = 1420 }[/COLOR] action_a = { name = "DAMN" command = { type = stability value = -1 } [COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = revolt which = 337 } #Friesen[/COLOR] } }

#-#Despite their previous reconciliation effort, the Schieringers came to Jan once more, this time Jan accepted and became lord over Friesland.

why are you reintroducing HLL, when we are removing it?

Code:
Since FRI_22015 was triggered by HLL_88019 (and not 88018 - typo in the comment), I don't see why FRI_22014 should trigger it:

Code:

#(1422) Breaking the vassalization event = { id = 22015 [COLOR=Red]#triggered by HLL_88018[/COLOR] [COLOR=Yellow]trigger = { vassal = { country = HAU country = FRI } }[/COLOR] random = no country = FRI name = "EVENTNAME22015" #Jan loses control of the Schieringers desc = "EVENTHIST22015" #-# [COLOR=Yellow]date = { day = 16 month = august year = 1422 }[/COLOR] action_a = { name = "ACTIONNAME22015A" #Freedom! command = { type = breakvassal which = [COLOR=Red]HLL[/COLOR][COLOR=Yellow]HAU[/COLOR] } } }

#-#After stepping on the Shieringers' toes once too many, Jan lost control of the Schieringers. After losing Dokkum, his last foothold in Friesland, on the 29th (or the 30th) of May 1422, the treaty ending his Frisian adventure was signed on the 17th of August.

@Toio: remember range for days is 0-29 => 17th = 16 in EU2

FRI start the game as vassals of brabant

alliance = {
id = { type = 6000 id = 22 }
type = vassalization
expirydate = { year = 1820 }
participant = { HAU FRI }
}
what happens then to 22014 ?

About trigger in new FRI_171002, Oldenburg and Gelderland will always be neighbour with current map but what happens if Burgundy is neighbour but Holland not owned by Burgundy?

how can that be, there are only 3 land connections for frisia , unless frisia is more than 1 province, then if frisia is more tan 1 province, then frisia would be more stable (one would presume)

OLD, BUR and GEL all meddled in frisian affairs with either the Vetkopers or Schieringers until Groningen gained controlled and basically eliminated all their (OLD, BUR and GEL) influences in destabilization of frisia for their gain

If I understand correctly, event should fire only if the GEL, OLD and BUR are on the map, right? No possiblity if only two of them or only one is here?

correct

Couldn't we test the size of Friesland?

what , like
NOT = { countrysize = 2 }
as an example

Code:
About post #741:

Reverting CoA/flag in FRI_22017 to default should be:

Code:

command = { type = flagname which = "" }

Is the provincetax loss directly tied to increase in new FRI_171003?

If yes, we should have two events. First one is the same as current one but with trigger testing 171003 never happened. Second one includes Toio's proposal and with trigger testing if 171003 happened. Both events will sleep each other (they are really exclusive but engine doesn't need to continue testing the other when one of them already fired).

command for flagname .............amended

province tax is basically the decline of groningen as a major trade city, basically due to the commencement of the saxon interferences

After reviewing Toio's posts, I wonder why former starting sequence for HLL (88017, 88018 and 88019) is not simply moved to LUX (Jan of Bavaria) but only if Luxemburg owns or controls Holland. Some of the events exist in Luxemburg file (213003, 213004) with control of Holland as a condition but they are not connected to Friesland ones. Only missing one is in 1422 (88019). I'm not sure FRI_22015 should involve HAU but LUX instead. This is not the same Jan in Brabant and Luxemburg.
We even have a specific event LUX_213005 for independence of Friesland between 1420 and 1425.

why do you want FRI to be a vassal of both HAU and LUX , as FRI commence game as a vassal of HAU?

independence of FRI by LUX was to not mess up the LUX ownership of the low countries , that is , not to own any province there.
FRI also gives up holland to brabant if it wins the war against LUX and takes holland

Toio · Feb 7, 2008

YodaMaster said:
Isn't the top CoA very ancient?

In second link, mentioned flag is the one that is currently used for Brabant. I thought you were asking for a different flag... There is a problem with the use of this flag and capital of HAU revolter possibly outside Brabant province.

second link was an error by me, i meant to this one as the flag

http://www.ngw.nl/z/zuidholl.htm

either one, even if the first one is ancient , it would represent the revolter

the second is very close to the first netherlands COA before they changed it to a blue background

Toio · Feb 7, 2008

what about post for 731

the first COA of FRI , because the crrent one was introduced areound 1500 when GEL got involved, the lion is from Geldre

as per

Friesland is a province in the North of the Netherlands. Friesland originally included a larger area, of which parts are now in Noord Holland, Groningen and Germany. The Frisians formed an independent state. The German Emperor Frederik Barbarossa made Frieland a condominium between the Counts of Holland and the Bishops of Utrecht. The counts of Holland, however, failed to establish their power in the area. They only obtained West-Friesland, now part of the province of Noord Holland. At the same time the Counts of Gelre claimed the eastern part of the area. They also failed to establish their power for a longer period. To establish their claim they used arms with two lions on a field with silver coins. The lion was the lion of Gelre. It symbolized Gelre and Friesland. When the province finally became part of the Netherlands the arms were continued. In the 16th century the coins were replaced by 7 rectangles, representing the seven districts of (ancient) Friesland. The arms haven't changed since then.

Garbon · Feb 7, 2008

Toio said:
I prefer to use a simple COA (for the brabant revolter) as this link (top coa on site)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counts_of_Hainaut

or even this flag from this link like the old EEP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Brabant

Are you saying to use one of those CoA's (saw the other link you posted as well) as a replacement for the Hainault quadrant in Yoda's mock-up? The CoA in your third link is the CoA for the county of Holland. Which do we think is more important, Hainault or Holland?

@Yoda - That's exactly the sort of thing I had in mind.

Garbon · Feb 7, 2008

YodaMaster said:
Isn't the top CoA very ancient?

Yea, as far as I can tell it is. At latest by the time of Phillipa of Hainault, in the 14th century, the arms you used were commonplace.

Toio · Feb 8, 2008

Garbon said:
Are you saying to use one of those CoA's (saw the other link you posted as well) as a replacement for the Hainault quadrant in Yoda's mock-up? The CoA in your third link is the CoA for the county of Holland. Which do we think is more important, Hainault or Holland?

@Yoda - That's exactly the sort of thing I had in mind.

bascially, I am only looking for a flag and not a COA change,

BUT

if you want to be more historical to represent a revolter, then
1 - Yodamaster , created quadrant COA is wrong because that ended in the 14th century

2- use Ghent history to reflect a revolter, as they revolted against both BUR and SPA and also had the merge with Netherlands in the Pacification of Ghent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghent

from link
The city recovered in the 14th century, while Flanders was united with neighbouring provinces under the Dukes of Burgundy. High taxes led to a rebellion and eventually the Battle of Gavere, in which Ghent suffered a terrible defeat at the hands of Philip the Good. Around this time the center of gravity in the Low Countries started to shift from Flanders (Bruges–Ghent) to Brabant (Antwerp–Brussels), although Ghent would continue to play an important role.
In 1500 Juana of Castile gave birth to Charles V, who became Holy Roman Emperor and King of Spain. Although native to Ghent, he punished the city after the 1539 Revolt of Ghent and obliged the city's nobles to walk in front of the emperor barefoot with a noose (Dutch: strop) around the neck; since this incident, the people of Ghent have been called "Stroppendragers" (noose bearers). The Saint Bavo Abbey was abolished, torn down, and replaced with a fortress for Spanish troops. Only a small portion of the abbey was spared demolition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacification_of_ghent

if that above ie COA for flag (ghent)

then this would represent a better one, although there seems no history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walloon_Brabant
but then thats more belgium-french

if we need one for dutch area, then maybe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Flanders
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Holland
or
http://www.ngw.nl/z/zeelandp.htm which reflect holland and zeeland

and finally back to ghent , with more history attached (below)
http://www.ngw.nl/int/bel/g/gent.htm

question is , How historical do you want to go for this revolter. ?
and Again I state , ghent seems the only one which has revolts and a merger with netherlands

unmerged(40707) · Feb 8, 2008

Toio said:
i think it should stay in as the Vetkoper reaction, i do not see you reasoning,

Original event is the result of an ahistorical B choice. I don't see why it should be triggered as the result of a historical event without choice.

Toio said:
why are you reintroducing HLL, when we are removing it?

Just wrong yellow color. It should be red. Post amended.

Toio said:
FRI start the game as vassals of brabant

alliance = {
id = { type = 6000 id = 22 }
type = vassalization
expirydate = { year = 1820 }
participant = { HAU FRI }
}
what happens then to 22014 ?

In this case, we have a problem... Why is Friesland vassal of Brabant in 1419?
Even if justified, Jan VI of Brabant isn't Jan IV of Bavaria (real ruler in Luxemburg) and sequence between County of Holland and Friesland refers to Luxemburg, not Brabant. I wonder why Brabant is involved before 1425 (including 22014).

Toio said:
what , like
NOT = { countrysize = 2 }
as an example

Ok, event happens only if Oldenburg and Gelderland are present => Burgundy owns Holland. Better use this ownership condition instead of neighbour for Burgundy then. After all, Friesland could own any province elesewhere.

Toio said:
province tax is basically the decline of groningen as a major trade city, basically due to the commencement of the saxon interferences

You don't clearly answer to my question. Should the provincetax -1 only nullify the provincetax +1 with Groningen event?

Toio said:
why do you want FRI to be a vassal of both HAU and LUX , as FRI commence game as a vassal of HAU?

independence of FRI by LUX was to not mess up the LUX ownership of the low countries , that is , not to own any province there.
FRI also gives up holland to brabant if it wins the war against LUX and takes holland

Same problem as above for vassal status of Friesland. Events in 1420-1422 should be for Luxemburg. Something seems wrong to me and maybe there is a confusion between the two Jan.

Toio · Feb 8, 2008

YodaMaster said:
Original event is the result of an ahistorical B choice. I don't see why it should be triggered as the result of a historical event without choice.

Click to expand...

I am not looking at the original event, to me in my mindset they are eliminated

Just wrong yellow color. It should be red. Post amended.

Click to expand...

ok

In this case, we have a problem... Why is Friesland vassal of Brabant in 1419?
Even if justified, Jan VI of Brabant isn't Jan IV of Bavaria (real ruler in Luxemburg) and sequence between County of Holland and Friesland refers to Luxemburg, not Brabant. I wonder why Brabant is involved before 1425 (including 22014).

Click to expand...

I do not know about the vassal and i found no reference in history for it, so I presumed the original script modder knew something i did not

But, it would seem strange that FRI is a vassal of LUX and LUX Dow FRI

Ok, event happens only if Oldenburg and Gelderland are present => Burgundy owns Holland. Better use this ownership condition instead of neighbour for Burgundy then. After all, Friesland could own any province elesewhere.

Click to expand...

easiest solution is to add the command of the countrysize, bascially if FRI is greater than 1 province, do not fire the event

You don't clearly answer to my question. Should the provincetax -1 only nullify the provincetax +1 with Groningen event?

Click to expand...

It is NOT related , it would happen regardless,

Groningen was the most important town in frisia , even if it was not the capital, it was triple in size of the capital in trade also

Same problem as above for vassal status of Friesland. Events in 1420-1422 should be for Luxemburg. Something seems wrong to me and maybe there is a confusion between the two Jan.

Click to expand...

What we going to do then?

unmerged(40707) · Feb 8, 2008

Ghent CoA is very recent...

About the revolter CoA, why not Walloon_Brabant shape but with a black lion and a red lion instead of the red cocks.

unmerged(40707) · Feb 8, 2008

Toio said:
I am not looking at the original event, to me in my mindset they are eliminated

I meant original 22012 when triggered by HLL_88017 B. I understand we can have a reaction of Vetkoper but name of the event is wrong (Vetkoper reaction to the Schieringer pact with Jan VI). There is no pact involved since Jan refused to help... But I see it is about Jan VI (of Brabant) and not Jan IV of Bavaria... Rather strange...

And with your proposal (22011 triggering directly 22012), we now have stab +1 immediately followed by stab -1. We also have INF gained in Friesen and a revolt at the same time. IMHO, effect should be reworked if we want to model Vetkoper reaction.
As a conclusion there is no need of two events. A single one could be sufficient.

Toio said:
I do not know about the vassal and i found no reference in history for it, so I presumed the original script modder knew something i did not

But, it would seem strange that FRI is a vassal of LUX and LUX Dow FRI

Yes, but the whole sequence is strange.

Toio said:
easiest solution is to add the command of the countrysize, bascially if FRI is greater than 1 province, do not fire the event

Ok

Toio said:
It is NOT related , it would happen regardless,

Groningen was the most important town in frisia , even if it was not the capital, it was triple in size of the capital in trade also

Ok

Toio said:
What we going to do then?

We have to make more research. Something is obviously wrong and we have to find why.

AGC-EEP Holland

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Sultan d'Afrique

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Field Marshal

Just call me Yoda in private!

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