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Garbon

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Also, who do we think this dude is?

Code:
historicalleader = {
	category = explorer
	id = { type = 6 id = 060342 }
	name = "May"
	startdate = {
		year = 1611
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1617
	}
	rank = 7
	movement = 5
	fire = 0
	shock = 0
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

I've found Cornelis Jacobsz May (1614-1620ish) and Jan Cornelisz May (1612-1614). Maybe we could split up May and have both, athough the AI wouldn't be able to make much use of Jan Cornelisz as he'd be at roughly the same time as Block.
 

Garbon

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Further analysis / suggetions:

Jan Huygen
-April 8 1583 - 1592 (went home from Azores after)


Barentsz
-June 5, 1594 - June 20, 1597



F. de Houtman
-1595-1620


van Heemskerck
-Maybe remove as he tried to find a northern route to China from Europe. Will always be used ahistorically.

van Noort
-returned to Netherlands in 1601, was largely a failure but was inspiration for future expeditions
 

Garbon

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As discussed, here are two new event mock-ups for Dutch colonial cores.

Code:
#(1609-1620) Discovery of New Netherland
event = {
	id = xx
	trigger = {
		flag = [VOC]
		OR = {
			discovered = 87 #Manhattan
			discovered = 862 #Cheasapeake Bay
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = HOL
	name = "EVENTNAMExx" #Discovery of New Netherland
	desc = "EVENTHISTxx"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1609 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1620 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GOOD"
		command = { type = addcore which = 87 } #Manhattan
		command = { type = addcore which = 88 } #Catskill
		command = { }
	}
}
On the 3rd of September 1609, English explorer, Henry Hudson discovered the area now known on as New York while attempting to find a northwest passage to the East Indies. Traveling up the Husdon River, he went as far as modern-day Albany and claimed all lands for his employer the VOC.


Code:
#(1623-1660) Formation of New Netherland
event = {
	id = xxx
	trigger = {
		[color=yellow]owned = { province = 87 data = -1 } #Manhattan[/color]
		OR = {
			owned = { province = 86 data = -1 } #Delaware
			[color=red]owned = { province = 87 data = -1 } #Manhattan[/color]
			owned = { province = 88 data = -1 } #Catskill
			owned = { province = 102 data = -1 } #Connecticut
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = HOL
	name = "EVENTNAMExxx" #Formation of New Netherland
	desc = "EVENTHISTxxx"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1623 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1660 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GOOD"
		command = { type = trade value = 100 }
		command = { type = merchants value = 2 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 86 } #Delaware
		command = { type = addcore which = 87 } #Manhattan
		command = { type = addcore which = 88 } #Catskill
		command = { type = addcore which = 102 } #Connecticut
		command = { }
	}
}
Following the discovery of New Netherland, Fort Oranje was erected, near modern-day Albany, to protect Dutch trading with the Indians for furs. In 1621, the States General of the United Provinces granted the newly incorporated Westindische Compagnie (WIC) a 24 year trading monopoly in America and Africa. By 1623, New Netherland would be granted provincial status and the WIC began organizing permanent Dutch settlement.

We may at some point want to have have a separate [WIC] flag that helps manage whether or not the Netherlands get various events in the West much the same as [VOC] does for the East. (Like for instance how Dutch Conflict with Portugal gives the Dutch cores on Brazil without any triggers.)
 
Last edited:

De-VILLARS

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I'm writing event for new holland, new sweden and new scotland.

About new holland i believed (after my research) that only manhattan (and maybe delaware) were owned by this country :confused:

and sorry for my english :eek:o
 

Garbon

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The Dutch had a presence in Connecticut until they gave it up to the English. Catskill (as location of Albany) was definitely owned by them. They had a slight presence in Delaware/failed colonies. That said, they initially tried for dominion of all.

I don't think there should be an event for New Sweden. Sweden wasn't very successful (at all really - and they have a total of one province), so I don't think they deserve a core.

Oh and New Holland is the name for the colonial possessions in Brazil. New Netherland (as I've outlined in those two events) is the name for the New York possessions.
 

Garbon

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Oh but yea, I think it is best to have two separate events for New Netherland as anything done by Henry Hudson / Adriaen Block (I'm not sure why Muxubat thought him so worth highlighting) didn't give the Dutch as much legitimacy as when the States General made New Netherland one of the United Provinces.

/don't apologize for your English. We all know that I'd post in the french forum but my french is most certainly not good enough. :eek:o
 

Garbon

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What do you think about this as an event for losing cores?

Basically, if the Netherlands don't have Manhattan (I think the most important province for New Netherland, the English take 2 of the 4 provinces (focused on Catskill and Manhattan as the two most colonized areas), or the USA exists, then all cores are lost.

Code:
#(1660-1820) Loss of New Netherland
event = {
	id = xxx
	trigger = {
		[color=yellow]OR = {
			event =  #HOL: Discovery of New Netherland		
			event =  #HOL: Formation of New Netherland		
		}[/color]
		OR = {
			[color=red]NOT = { owned = { province = 87 data = -1 } } #Manhattan[/color]
			[color=yellow]AND = {
				war = { country = ENG country = HOL }	
				control = { province = 87 data = ENG } #Manhattan
				OR= {
					control = { province = 86 data = ENG } #Delaware
					control = { province = 88 data = ENG } #Catskill
					control = { province = 102 data = ENG } #Connecticut
				}
			}[/color]
			AND = {
				owned = { province = 87 data = ENG } #Manhattan
				OR= {
					owned = { province = 86 data = ENG } #Delaware
					owned = { province = 88 data = ENG } #Catskill
					owned = { province = 102 data = ENG } #Connecticut
				}
			}
			AND = {
				owned = { province = 88 data = ENG } #Catskill
				OR= {
					owned = { province = 86 data = ENG } #Delaware
					owned = { province = 87 data = ENG } #Manhattan
					owned = { province = 102 data = ENG } #Connecticut
				}
			}
			[color=yellow]AND = {
				owned = { province = 86 data = ENG } #Delaware
				OR= {
					owned = { province = 88 data = ENG } #Catskill
					owned = { province = 87 data = ENG } #Manhattan
					owned = { province = 102 data = ENG } #Connecticut
				}
			}
			AND = {
				owned = { province = 102 data = ENG } #Connecticut
				OR= {
					owned = { province = 86 data = ENG } #Delaware
					owned = { province = 87 data = ENG } #Manhattan
					owned = { province = 88 data = ENG } #Catskill
				}
			}[/color]
			exists = USA
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = HOL
	name = "EVENTNAMExxx" #Loss of New Netherland
	desc = "EVENTHISTxxx"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1660 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GOOD" [color=limegreen]What's the text for Drats![/color]
		[color=red]command = { type = trade value = 100 }
		command = { type = merchants value = 2 }[/color]
		command = { type = removecore which = 86 } #Delaware
		command = { type = removecore which = 87 } #Manhattan
		command = { type = removecore which = 88 } #Catskill
		command = { type = removecore which = 102 } #Connecticut
		command = { }
	}
}
Although an initially promising venture, the province of New Netherland was difficult to maintain and protect. Coveted by many, very few heeded the Dutch claim to the territory.
 
Last edited:

De-VILLARS

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The Dutch had a presence in Connecticut until they gave it up to the English. Catskill (as location of Albany) was definitely owned by them. They had a slight presence in Delaware/failed colonies. That said, they initially tried for dominion of all.
OK.
/The situation may need a new event for england to give it the core on a former dutch "empire".

I don't think there should be an event for New Sweden. Sweden wasn't very successful (at all really - and they have a total of one province), so I don't think they deserve a core.
OK

#(1609-1620) Discovery of New Netherland
#(1623-1660) Formation of New Netherland
according to colonial work I would reduce the number of province in the trigger. 1 (manhattan) for the discovery and 2 (manhattan and connecticut ?) for the formation of new netherland.

What do you think about this as an event for losing cores?
i propose for the trigger :
- OR : Discovery of New Netherland or Formation of New Netherland
AND/or :
- war and england control 2 provinces among the 4 (or more ? and which ?)
- england own 2 provinces
- USA exists

/don't apologize for your English. We all know that I'd post in the french forum but my french is most certainly not good enough.
:D ;)
 

unmerged(40707)

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Mar 1, 2005
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According to discussion about "recycled" FLA leaders here, leaders for Brabant and Netherlands.

Brabant:
Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 057803 }
	category = general
	name = "Willem de Croy"
	startdate = {
		year = 1506
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1510
	}
	rank = 3
	movement = 2
	fire = 3
	shock = 3
	siege = 1
	dormant = no
}

historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 057804 }
	category = admiral
	name = "Geraard de Merckere"
	startdate = {
		year = 1537
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1543
	}
	rank = 3
	movement = 4
	fire = 2
	shock = 2
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
	remark ="Could be for Netherlands too but outside timespan"
}

historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 057805 }
	category = general
	name = "Jan van Marnix"
	startdate = {
		year = 1557
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1567
	}
	rank = 4
	movement = 3
	fire = 1
	shock = 1
	siege = 1
	dormant = no
}

historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 057806 }
	category = admiral
	name = "F. van Montm[COLOR=Yellow]o[/COLOR]rency" #Filips van Montmorency
	startdate = {
		year = 1559
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1580
	}
	rank = 3
	movement = 4
	fire = 3
	shock = 3
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}

historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 057807 }
	category = general
	name = "Karel van Croy"
	startdate = {
		year = 1580
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1612
	}
	rank = 2
	movement = 3
	fire = 2
	shock = 2
	siege = 1
	dormant = no
}

Netherlands:
Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 060359 }
	category = admiral
	name = "A. de Berghes Dolhain" #Adrien de Berghes Dolhain
	startdate = {
		year = 1552
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1572
	}
	rank = 2
	movement = 3
	fire = 4
	shock = 4
	siege = 0
	dormant = no
}
Since Netherlands can't form before 1559, there is no need for a duplicate Geraard de Merckere.
 

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I updated posts 565 and 569.

I left Discovery of New Netherland alone as does it not make sense to grant cores if the bordering seazone was discovered? I'm not aware how other colonial core events work, so we can still remove that option if it doesn't line up.

I changed Formation of New Netherland so that you Manhattan (as most important) and one of the other provinces has to be owned to get the cores.

Re-worked Loss of New Netherland so that as suggested, one of the core events has to have occurred in order to loses the cores. The other three conditions are either that ENG and HOL are at war and ENG controls Manhattan plus one of the other four, England owns any two of the 4 provinces, or the USA exists.
 

ConjurerDragon

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Is this event still unchanged in the newest beta?
I currently still play with the last version and haven´t downloaded the beta-

In my current game the Netherlands revolted from Spain in Geldre while Hainault was in Holland and did own Skane. I as Austria had occupied both Holland and Skane and was short before making peace when the event fired and had Holland and Skane become part of the Netherlands and I held nothing :mad:

Shouldn´t an "atwar = no" be in the event like those of Burgundy and the Fall of the Mamlucks?

Code:
#(1559-1648) The Dutch Republic for county of Holland
event = {
	id = 313000 #triggered by HOL_3900
	random = no
	country = HLL #county of Holland
	name = "EVENTNAME3810" #text for FLA #The Dutch Republic
	desc = "EVENTHIST3810" #text for FLA
	#-#Your Highness, a united Dutch Republic has broken free from the oppressors. This is a chance to unite the Netherlands at last... Shall we join our brothers and sisters in the republic? (This will end the game.)

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3810A" #Join the new Republic
		command = { type = trigger which = 186008 } #HOL: Flandres joins the Republic
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3810B" #Walk our own path
		command = { type = relation which = HOL value = -100 }
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
	}
}
 

unmerged(40707)

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Strange... inherit command should have let you gain the controlled provinces... Do you mean provinces were just under siege but not controlled?

Not sure for the atwar condition, this is the same "problem" for all other Dutch minors. IMHO, if they decide to join Netherlands, you should declare war to Netherlands if you want to continue the fight.
 

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Garbon said:
We may at some point want to have have a separate [WIC] flag that helps manage whether or not the Netherlands get various events in the West much the same as [VOC] does for the East. (Like for instance how Dutch Conflict with Portugal gives the Dutch cores on Brazil without any triggers.)
[VOC] is automatic. There is no possible choice. I understand the event (HOL_3503) and the use of the flag only to prevent a revolting HOL after 1700 being involved in colonial ventures, or "forget" all events related to VOC before the annexation.
We could do the same for WIC but we have to check events since some existing ones are tied to it.

Garbon said:
What's the text for Drats!
"DRATS"

Garbon said:
Re-worked Loss of New Netherland so that as suggested, one of the core events has to have occurred in order to loses the cores.
Better test if Netherlands has core on one of the four provinces. HOL can be annexed after the events and can reappear afterwards. Events will have happened but cores will not be present in this case (same problem as [VOC] flag set or not).

Null command is useless in "Formation of New Netherland" and "Loss of New Netherland" events.

Or... about the test of the previous events and null command in "Loss of New Netherland" do you really mean that the event could happen if one of the previous events fired but Netherlands disappeared, reappeared, and took the provinces (but without cores)? In this case, Loss event will have no effect but description will be displayed.
 
Last edited:

ConjurerDragon

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YodaMaster said:
Strange... inherit command should have let you gain the controlled provinces... Do you mean provinces were just under siege but not controlled?

Not sure for the atwar condition, this is the same "problem" for all other Dutch minors. IMHO, if they decide to join Netherlands, you should declare war to Netherlands if you want to continue the fight.

I was Austria and controlled the provinces. Then the Netherlands inherited Hainault while I was controlling the provinces and at war with Hainault - resulting in Austria owning both Holland and Skane for 0 BB.

A bit later an event fired that seceded Holland from Austria to the Netherlands but I still kept Skane for 0 BB.
 

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I understand better now. This is a well known possible exploit of the inherit command (and bad design, inherit_all could have been a better command).

We try to add secede commands for cores of the country to be inherited before each inheritance when war is mandatory (with the problem of CTD to be avoided if capital is seceded as last province...) or when we know where the capital is located for sure (see what I have done for Wars of Religion and FPR and FUC, and with the help of Brussel flag for Burgundy).
For Mamluks, capital is always in Egypt. Seceding provinces is safe too, and Egypt will go to OE for sure since OE needs controlling it for the event to fire.

But there is nothing much we can do for countries that expanded outside their cores... Will we try to secede all the provinces of the world just before inheritance in this case?
Of course, atwar = no is the best option but not always the best choice. A country could at war for centuries because of deadlocks...
 
Last edited:

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YodaMaster said:
[VOC] is automatic. There is no possible choice. I understand the event (HOL_3503) and the use of the flag only to prevent a revolting HOL after 1700 being involved in colonial ventures, or "forget" all events related to VOC before the annexation.
We could do the same for WIC but we have to check events since some existing ones are tied to it.

I didn't mean to suggest that there was, but just that we should consider whether or not WIC related events (Dutch activities in the New World) make sense if WIC/VOC were never founded.


YodaMaster said:
Better test if Netherlands has core on one of the four provinces. HOL can be annexed after the events and can reappear afterwards. Events will have happened but cores will not be present in this case (same problem as [VOC] flag set or not).

True, I've never used the triggers before, so I must admit that I didn't know they existed! :eek:o



YodaMaster said:
Or... about the test of the previous events and null command in "Loss of New Netherland" do you really mean that the event could happen if one of the previous events fired but Netherlands disappeared, reappeared, and took the provinces (but without cores)? In this case, Loss event will have no effect but description will be displayed.

No I don't want that. That would be unnecessary as why should a newly formed Netherlands see a failure event about the previous formulation of the Netherlands.