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That's a pretty nice idea.
 

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Found something in the AGCEEP Crimean event file, event 152050 allows the Crimea to inherit the GH after 1500, but it is triggered by either event 287002 or 287003 for the Golden Horde, which both require the Crimea to control the Golden Horde's capital. Also their are several additional triggers, for 287002 Kazan and Astrahkan need to exist and for 287003 Kazan and Astrahkan must not exitst and the GH has to be smaller then 10 provinces.
From the AGCEEP games I have played to so far I can say that that neither of these of conditions is ever met. Kazan usually gets annexed by Russia before 1500 and the GH tends to survive with more then 10 provinces making either event an impossibility. To solve this I would suggest merging the two events for the GH and removing all the triggers, with perhaps only keeping the following trigger: control = { province = 458 data = CRI }.
 

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Alkar said:
Found something in the AGCEEP Crimean event file, event 152050 allows the Crimea to inherit the GH after 1500, but it is triggered by either event 287002 or 287003 for the Golden Horde, which both require the Crimea to control the Golden Horde's capital.

The reason the events are setup this way is to avoid the possibility of a giant Crimea, as it is a bit off to have Crimea inherit all the Golden Horde's lands. So while this sequence isn't really working, I'm not sure what you've suggested is a great alternative.

Perhaps, as has long been suggested the trigger for the Russian Claim on the Steppes event should be changed? Work should also be done to make sure that the khanates that pop up are antagonistic to the Golden Horde.
 

chegitz guevara

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Create an event to destroy the GH if it still exists at a certain point. I'm not sure how you'd go about that though. Maybe instead have Sibir annex it after it releases any vassals it might have and sheds a few provs.
 

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Actually, I think the current sequence is OK, it just needs some tweaking. From what I've seen they always have 1 or more provinces east of Orenburg lingering on. Without these straggelers it would be fairly easy for Muscowy and the like to gobble them up. Of course, making the succesors a little more antagonistic wouldn't hurt either.
 

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chegitz guevara said:
Crimea needs an event vassalizing it to the Ottomans, and joiing its alliance.

Should such an event also give Crimea Turkish culture? The reason I am asking this, is because in the later scenarios, 1492 and 1520, Crimea starts out with Turkish culture as well.

Garbon said:
The reason the events are setup this way is to avoid the possibility of a giant Crimea, as it is a bit off to have Crimea inherit all the Golden Horde's lands. So while this sequence isn't really working, I'm not sure what you've suggested is a great alternative.

Perhaps, as has long been suggested the trigger for the Russian Claim on the Steppes event should be changed? Work should also be done to make sure that the khanates that pop up are antagonistic to the Golden Horde.

The current existing events for the GH release both Kazan and Astrahkan plus secede a bunch of provinces to them and Russia. If the GH manages to hold onto provinces east of Astrahkan seceding those to Sibir would prevent Crimea from getting to powerful.

Removing some of the provinces for the triggering of the Russian claims on the Steppes, especially province 458, the Golden Horde's capital, would help Russia getting the event and their eastern expansion.

An idea perhaps to make the khanates antagonistic to the GH would be giving them a cb via an event either a temporary one or a cb-shield on the GH's capital and event triggering a war.
 

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Why do they get Turkish? Did they start to be Ottomanized enough to justify an extra culture for them?
 

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While googling around, I found this site on the Crimea.
The Crimean Khanate was founded in the 1st half of the 15th century, when the plains and foothills of the Crimea belonged to the Golden Horde Empire as its province. The mountainous region was the territory of a Christian principality of Gothia. The south and southeast seashores of the peninsula were a colony of Genoa.
In that time the Golden Horde was much weakened by inner dynastic fighting. The Crimean Tatar nobility strove to liberate the Crimea from the Golden Horde’s authority and in the 40s of the 15th century finally separated their country from the Empire. They elected Haci Geray (descending from the Chingiz dynasty) to be their monarch. Haci Geray became the first independent Crimean khan and founded the dynasty of the Gerays. In 1475 the Ottoman Turkey invaded the Crimea. The Turks conquered Gothia and Genoese colonies and turned them into a Turkish possession. Also Ottomans captured Meсli Geray (a son and successor of Haci Geray) and brought him to Istanbul. Sultan Mehmed II allowed the khan to return to the Crimean throne after he had forced Meсli Geray to recognize Turkish suzerainty over the khanate (see the picture: Meсli Geray sits at the right hand of Bayezid II). Neverthless, it did not mean that the Crimean Khanate became a Turkish colony).
The Turkish suzerainty had a wholesome effect in the cultural development of the Crimean state, but often it extremely unfavorably influenced the political situation of the khanate. The khans were obliged to send large Crimean troops to sultans’ military campaigns. That duty much weakened the Crimean khanate, which wasted its forces far outside its borders (in Persia and Hungary f. ex.). Another source of conflicts was Turkish interference to dynastical affairs of the Gerays. The monarch of the Crimea could not hold the throne without the appointment by the sultan and could be removed from the throne in every moment by the will of the Turkish sovereign.
The Crimean khanate was not an absolutistic Eastern despoty like the Ottoman Em-pire. The Divan (the State Council) consisting of the seniors of some noble families limited the authority of the khan. Each important decision by the khan was to be approved and confirmed by the Divan and had not any validity without such confirmation. Any absolutistic aspirations of the khans met with a decisive repulse of the nobility. The seniors could make complaints to the sultan against an objectionable khan and re-move him from the throne by that way. So quite often there was a sharp opposition among the Gerays against the Ottoman suzerainty.
The foreign relations of the Crimean khanate were determined by its neighborhood with the three major powers in Eastern Europe: Turkey, Poland and Muscovy (later Russia). The course of the Crimean foreign policy changed according to the distribution of power on the international scene and depending on the course of Turkey. Some of the Crimean khans endeavored to pursue an independent foreign policy but the sultans severely suppressed all efforts of that kind.
Besides the three mentioned powers the Crimea maintained relations with Ukraine (which belonged to Poland; later partly also to Muscovy), Moldova, Romania, Transylvania, Hungary, Austria, Prussia, Denmark, Sweden, France and states of Caucasus.
The relations with Russia had a big importance for the destiny of the Crimean Tatar state. While struggling together against the Great Horde both countries were allies. However later their relations became very tense.

In the 17th century Russia started an offensive policy in the Black Sea region. In the 1770s it carried out some military campaigns unsuccessful for Turkey and the Crimea. In 1774 Turkey and Russia concluded the treaty proclaiming independence of the khanate.
The last Crimean khan Sagin Geray tried to Europeanize Crimean military and legal systems. Finally, numerous cases of abusing committed by Sagin’s administration as well as his downright pro-Russian political orientation led Sagin to loss of any support in his country. A civil war that broke out soon gave Russia a cause to annex the Crimea in 1783. Slackening Turkey was unable to render any effective help to its former vassal.

Pretty interesting stuff really and it does contain some nice possibilities for events.
As to the case with Turkish culture there seems to be a point in giving it to them.
 

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The following might be an idea on how to have the Ottoman vassalization of the Crimea happening in the game:
Code:
 [COLOR=White] 
#Crimea becomes an Ottoman vassal#

event = {
	
	id = ?
	trigger = ?
	random = NO
	country = CRI
	name = "Crimea becomes an Ottoman Vassal"
	desc = "In 1475 the Ottoman Turkey invaded the Crimea. The Turks conquered Gothia and Genoese colonies and turned them into a Turkish possession. Also Ottomans captured Meсli Geray (a son and successor of Haci Geray) and brought him to Istanbul. Sultan Mehmed II allowed the khan to return to the Crimean throne after he had forced Meсli Geray to recognize Turkish suzerainty over the khanate.The Turkish suzerainty had a wholesome effect in the cultural development of the Crimean state, but often it extremely unfavorably influenced the political situation of the khanate. The khans were obliged to send large Crimean troops to sultans’ military campaigns. That duty much weakened the Crimean khanate, which wasted its forces far outside its borders (in Persia and Hungary). Another source of conflicts was Turkish interference to dynastical affairs of the Gerays. The monarch of the Crimea could not hold the throne without the appointment by the sultan and could be removed from the throne in every moment by the will of the Turkish sovereign."
	style = 1

	date = { day = 1 month = January year = 1475 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = ?

	action_a = {
		name = "We accept Turkish suzerainity"
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = turkish }
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 200 }
		command = { type = dynastic which = TUR }
		command = { type = DIP which = 2 value = 60 }
		command = { type = MIL which = -2 value = 60 } 
		command = { type = manpower value = -10 }
		command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = -10000 } 
		command = { type = trigger which = ? }
		}
	action_b = {
		name = "We will never surrender to the Turks!"
		command = { type = breakdynastic which = TUR }
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -200 }
		command = { type = DIP which = -2 value = 60 }
		command = { type = MIL which = 2 value = 60 } 
		}
	}

event = { #triggered by "Crimea becomes an Ottoman vassal" event#

	id = ?
	random = NO
	country = TUR
	name = "Crimea becomes an Ottoman vassal"
	desc = "In 1475 the Ottoman Turkey invaded the Crimea. The Turks conquered Gothia and Genoese colonies and turned them into a Turkish possession. Also Ottomans captured Meсli Geray (a son and successor of Haci Geray) and brought him to Istanbul. Sultan Mehmed II allowed the khan to return to the Crimean throne after he had forced Meсli Geray to recognize Turkish suzerainty over the khanate.The Turkish suzerainty had a wholesome effect in the cultural development of the Crimean state, but often it extremely unfavorably influenced the political situation of the khanate. The khans were obliged to send large Crimean troops to sultans’ military campaigns. That duty much weakened the Crimean khanate, which wasted its forces far outside its borders (in Persia and Hungary). Another source of conflicts was Turkish interference to dynastical affairs of the Gerays. The monarch of the Crimea could not hold the throne without the appointment by the sultan and could be removed from the throne in every moment by the will of the Turkish sovereign."
	style = 1
	
	action_a = {
		name = "Great"
		command = { type = vassal which = CRI }
		command = { type = alliance which = CRI }
		command = { type = manpower value = -10 }
		command = { type = CAV which = ? value = 10000 }
		}
	}
[/COLOR]
I don't know what to use as triggers for the first event, should there be a war going on between the OE and Crimea and or should the OE own or control some of the northern Black Sea provinces, Kaffa, Kerch and Crimea?
 

chegitz guevara

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Since, AFAIK, you still can't force peace via event, war would be a bad idea for a trigger. In fact, the event shouldn't fire if at war, since if they accept vassalization, it will immediately be broken (cuz of the war) causing severe stability problems.

I would say check to see of the OE owns Kerch OR Kaffa.
 

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Got the ownership of either Kaffa OR Kerch by TUR set as triggers, also when Crimea picks option B, they go to war with TUR. I checked for errors using the online event parser and it came up with the following error:

* Integer -10000 out of range (0 to inf)
* Syntax error in object Event, state <action_command>, at line 30 char 14, with buffer 'type = desertion which = -1 value = -10000 } command'

I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong.

The event as it is follows below:
Code:
 [COLOR=White] 
#Crimea becomes an Ottoman vassal#

event = {
	
	id = 1
	trigger = {
		OR = { 	
			 owned = { province = 464 data = TUR } #Kaffa
			 owned = { province = 465 data = TUR } #Kerch
			}
		}
	random = NO
	country = CRI
	name = "Crimea becomes an Ottoman Vassal"
	desc = "In 1475 the Ottoman Turkey invaded the Crimea. The Turks conquered Gothia and Genoese colonies and turned them into a Turkish possession. Also Ottomans captured Meсli Geray (a son and successor of Haci Geray) and brought him to Istanbul. Sultan Mehmed II allowed the khan to return to the Crimean throne after he had forced Meсli Geray to recognize Turkish suzerainty over the khanate.The Turkish suzerainty had a wholesome effect in the cultural development of the Crimean state, but often it extremely unfavorably influenced the political situation of the khanate. The khans were obliged to send large Crimean troops to sultans’ military campaigns. That duty much weakened the Crimean khanate, which wasted its forces far outside its borders (in Persia and Hungary). Another source of conflicts was Turkish interference to dynastical affairs of the Gerays. The monarch of the Crimea could not hold the throne without the appointment by the sultan and could be removed from the throne in every moment by the will of the Turkish sovereign."
	style = 1

	date = { day = 1 month = January year = 1475 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = December year = 1819 }

	action_a = {
		name = "We accept Turkish suzerainity"
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = turkish }
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = 200 }
		command = { type = dynastic which = TUR }
		command = { type = DIP which = 2 value = 60 }
		command = { type = MIL which = -2 value = 60 } 
		command = { type = manpower value = -10 }
		command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = -10000 } 
		command = { type = trigger which = 2 }
		}
	action_b = {
		name = "We will never surrender to the Turks!"
		command = { type = breakdynastic which = TUR }
		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -200 }
		command = { type = DIP which = -2 value = 60 }
		command = { type = MIL which = 2 value = 60 }
		command = { type = war which = TUR } 
		}
	}

[/COLOR]
 

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The events for the formation of the Khanates of Crimea and Astrakhan are missing, I just realized. Were they intentionally removed? Why? If Kazan gets an auto-breakaway, why can't the others? Besides, the current way, Crimea forms Kalmuk and dies, and Astrakhan never gets created at all.
 

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Archaalen said:
The events for the formation of the Khanates of Crimea and Astrakhan are missing, I just realized. Were they intentionally removed? Why? If Kazan gets an auto-breakaway, why can't the others? Besides, the current way, Crimea forms Kalmuk and dies, and Astrakhan never gets created at all.

Makes sense to include Astrakhan and Crimean independence as well. The Crimean independence event description says the following:
"Initially after his expulsion from the Golden Horde, Ulugh Muhammed attempted to form a state in Crimea, but was unsuccessful. However Hajji Giray was able to take advantage of the weakness that Ulugh Muhammed aborted attempt had wrought and found the Crimea Khanate in 1441."
For Crimea you could use the "Flight of Ulugh Muhammad" event, just add an independence command for Crimea in event 40058.

There is also a seperate file for forming Astrakhan: AGCEEP_Global_Astrakhan.eue though the events in the file do not happen for the Golden Horde only for everybody else. This last one makes me wonder though, should Russia also face these problems with the Astrakhan Khanate?
 

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Archaalen said:
The events for the formation of the Khanates of Crimea and Astrakhan are missing, I just realized. Were they intentionally removed? Why? If Kazan gets an auto-breakaway, why can't the others? Besides, the current way, Crimea forms Kalmuk and dies, and Astrakhan never gets created at all.

The only formation of Crimea and Astrakhan events that ever existed, were ones that gave them troops after they successfully revolted. I'm not so sure about scripting their revolts, as I never like the scripted Kazan sequence either. Its quite a bit artificial. And although Astrakhan has some difficulty forming, I almost always see and eventual lasting presence by Crimea.
 

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Alkar said:
Got the ownership of either Kaffa OR Kerch by TUR set as triggers, also when Crimea picks option B, they go to war with TUR. I checked for errors using the online event parser and it came up with the following error:

* Integer -10000 out of range (0 to inf)
* Syntax error in object Event, state <action_command>, at line 30 char 14, with buffer 'type = desertion which = -1 value = -10000 } command'

I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong.

(Snipped event)


Desertion needs to be a positive number. Your event should read value = 10000, not value = -10000.
 

Archaalen

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They weren't in AGCEEP as far as I know at all, but they were in EEP, I believe. The Astrakhan event had a b choice where you kept them, but got some bad revolts there for a while. Golden Horde actually turned into Crimea in the version I'm thinking of. They weren't stellar events, but they were events nonetheless.
 

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Archaalen said:
They weren't in AGCEEP as far as I know at all, but they were in EEP, I believe. The Astrakhan event had a b choice where you kept them, but got some bad revolts there for a while. Golden Horde actually turned into Crimea in the version I'm thinking of. They weren't stellar events, but they were events nonetheless.

These two events were lost when Crook's additions were removed. I didn't have the time to replace them for the initial release and haven't done any work in the area since.