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Mettermrck

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I've been anxious to finally put to rest the age-old quest for German unification events in EU2, keeping a proper mindset of what is plausible yet making it possible and interesting to accomplish. Working with Twoflower, we are developing the first in a series of 2-3 options for possible German unification.

These following events are the easiest and most brutal method. Essentially, a country conquers the capitals of the Electors plus one or two other key cities, and then vassalizes the Emperor. That will trigger an event which can give the country the HEI tag, German cores, and also a slew of horrible reaction events across Europe, badboy, casus belli, revoltrisk, etc.

Keep in mind these are just draft events. The two I'm posting are models of the "by force" method of becoming Germany and the typical reaction event for other countries. Every German country would have its own potential event. And also bear in mind that this isn't the only method being contemplated for German unification. Twoflower is contemplating methods involving Austria centralizing Germany through other means than merely warfare. So, take a look, and let us know what you think.

I'm just hoping that by putting a proposal on the table, we can deflate the usual round of arguments and work constructively to make a realistic and plausible addon for German unification.

Code:
###################################
# The German Crown (durch Gewalt) #
###################################
event = { 
id = 999999
random = no
country = BRA
trigger = { 	owned = { province = 346 data = -1 } #Mainz
		owned = { province = 345 data = -1 } #Pfalz
		owned = { province = 328 data = -1 } #Bohemia
		owned = { province = 312 data = -1 } #Brandenburg
		owned = { province = 331 data = -1 } #Sachsen
		owned = { province = 344 data = -1 } #Koln
		owned = { province = 349 data = -1 } #Bayern
		owned = { province = 310 data = -1 } #Hannover
		vassal = { country = BRA country = HAB } #vassalize Austria
		atwar = no #must be at peace
                NOT = { badboy = 10 } #nationalism must have died down
	  }

name = "The German Crown"
desc = "Through a sustained campaign of military conquest, clever diplomatic maneuver, and stalwart will, Brandenburg has positioned itself, so that the Crown of Germany is now within reach. By overcoming all of the Imperial Electors and major rivals in Germany, and in particular, humbling the Hapsburgs, Brandenburg now has a claim to the German Crown that, if anathema to the nations of Europe, is clearly established by force."
style = 0

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
deathdate = { day = 31 month = december year = 1820 }

action_a = {
name = "The Crown is Mine"
command = { type = country which = HEI }
command = { type = badboy value = 8 } 
command = { type = revoltrisk which = 60 value = 5 }
command = { type = revolt which = -1 } 
command = { type = revolt which = -1 } 
command = { type = revolt which = -1 } 
command = { type = revolt which = -1 } 
command = { type = addcore which = 374 } #Alsace
command = { type = addcore which = 332 } #Anhalt
command = { type = addcore which = 348 } #Ansbach
command = { type = addcore which = 351 } #Austria
command = { type = addcore which = 373 } #Baden
command = { type = addcore which = 349 } #Bayern
command = { type = addcore which = 312 } #Brandenburg
command = { type = addcore which = 336 } #Bremen
command = { type = addcore which = 310 } #Hannover
command = { type = addcore which = 333 } #Hessen
command = { type = addcore which = 302 } #Hinterpommern
command = { type = addcore which = 306 } #Holstein
command = { type = addcore which = 343 } #Kleves
command = { type = addcore which = 313 } #Kustrin
command = { type = addcore which = 344 } #Koln
command = { type = addcore which = 375 } #Lorraine
command = { type = addcore which = 311 } #Magdeburg
command = { type = addcore which = 346 } #Mainz
command = { type = addcore which = 305 } #Mecklenburg
command = { type = addcore which = 334 } #Munster
command = { type = addcore which = 335 } #Oldenburg
command = { type = addcore which = 327 } #Ostmarch
command = { type = addcore which = 345 } #Pfalz
command = { type = addcore which = 331 } #Sachsen
command = { type = addcore which = 351 } #Salzburg
command = { type = addcore which = 371 } #Tirol
command = { type = addcore which = 304 } #Vorpommern
command = { type = addcore which = 372 } #Wurttemberg
command = { type = addcore which = 347 } #Wurzburg
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Saxony's Reaction - long casus belli, -250 relations
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Baden's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Bavaria's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Berg's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Bremen's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Hannover's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Hessen's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Pommerania's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Holstein's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Kleves' Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Koln's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Lorraine's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Mecklenburg's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Oldenburg's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Palatinate's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Stettin's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Wurttemberg's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Wurzburg's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #England's Reaction 
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #France's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Spain's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Castille's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Aragon's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Portugal's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Burgundy's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Papacy's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Austria's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Poland's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Lithuania's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Denmark's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Sweden's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Teutonic Order's Reaction
command = { type = trigger which = xxxx } #Prussia's Reaction
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = BAD } #Baden
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = BAY } #Bavaria
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = MUN } #Berg
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = BRE } #Bremen
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = HAN } #Hannover
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = HES } #Hesse
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = POM } #Pommerania
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = HOL } #Holstein
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = KLE } #Kleves
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = KOL } #Koln
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = LOR } #Lorraine
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = MEC } #Mecklenburg
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = OLD } #Oldenburg
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = PFA } #Palatinate
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = SLZ } #Stettin
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = WUR } #Wurttemburg
command = { type = breakdynastic  which = THU } #Wurzburg
}

action_b = {
name = "We will reject this burden"
command = { type = stability value = -1 }
}
}


#######################
# Reaction to Germany #
#######################
event = { 
id = 999998
random = no
country = ENG
#Trigged by The German Crown (durch Kraft) event

name = "Reaction to Germany"
desc = "The forceful revival of the medieval Kingdom of Germany has alarmed courts throughout Europe, and hostile reaction is forming against this usurper state. There is a strong call for severing ties and declaring war on this so-called German kingdom."
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "We oppose"
command = { type = casusbelli which = HEI value = 4812 }
command = { type = relation which = HEI value = -250 }
}

action_b = {
name = "No objection"
command = { type = diplomats value = -1 }
command = { type = stability value = -1 }
}
}
 
Last edited:

doktarr

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I don't think any Catholic nation should be able to become Germany. After all, the Holy Roman Emperor is already king of Germany, if in name only. All the Catholic duchies at least pay lip service to this. This places an effective startdate for this event at the reformation, which seems fine to me.

You should also have to be pretty well-established as the legitimate owner of a lot of these lands before you could expect to take the title. Really, I'd just want a check on whether you've held the lands for more than 30 years, but since that's not possible, I'd suggest requireing a BB of 10 or less. At least at that point you're not the bloody conqueror any more. I realize this makes it a lot harder to form, but honesly, it should be hard.

I'm not sure how you decided the cores, but I would suggest getting cores on all the protestant german territories within the HRE.
 

unmerged(6159)

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Well I think it must include cores on the Austrian territories in addition to those given out above. I see no reason why Austria should be treated any differently than the rest of Germany.

I actually can't read the rest of the code (after the first event). New vbulletin still confusing me I guess.
 

|AXiN|

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Is there a way to make a country an elector? If there is, that'd solve the problem of having a country called the "Holy Roman Empire" and a "Holy Roman Emperor" several countries away. If not, perhaps the new Emperor-related triggers and so on could be used somehow.
 

Norrefeldt

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Firts, I think it's a nice idea to do this, many people will love it.

doktarr said:
I don't think any Catholic nation should be able to become Germany. After all, the Holy Roman Emperor is already king of Germany, if in name only. All the Catholic duchies at least pay lip service to this. This places an effective startdate for this event at the reformation, which seems fine to me.

You should also have to be pretty well-established as the legitimate owner of a lot of these lands before you could expect to take the title. Really, I'd just want a check on whether you've held the lands for more than 30 years, but since that's not possible, I'd suggest requireing a BB of 10 or less. At least at that point you're not the bloody conqueror any more. I realize this makes it a lot harder to form, but honesly, it should be hard.

I'm not sure how you decided the cores, but I would suggest getting cores on all the protestant german territories within the HRE.

Good ideas about being protestant, but there might be historic reasons against it that I don't know of. At least it make sense to an outsider. BB limit should be added.

What will happen to HRE when Germany is created?

Old thread:
AGC & EEP: Fantasy German Unification
 
Last edited:

Khephren

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Mettermrck said:
vassal = { country = BRA country = -6 } #vassalize Emperor


Game will not recognize this trigger. Just tried. :(
 

Mettermrck

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I couldn't get that first thread link to work, Norrefeldt. Basically, I want to translate the discussion from theory to practical development, which is why I wanted to put an initial proposal on the table to work with.

This method I'm proposing here is the most brutal option listed originally by Twoflower, and in my opinion, should be open to any German state that somehow pulls off such a bloody feat of taking all the Electors and vassalizing the emperor. Catholic or Protestant, if someone's ambitious...he's going to be ambitious. :)

It's a shame the -6 trigger didn't work. Originally the event was just for the Hapsburgs, but it would've been more elegant to use for any Emperor. Does the emperor=yes trigger work?

Regarding the HRE...I'm not sure. Would the HRE exist even after a country assumes the HEI tag? A sort of hollow-shell title which could mean little or could function as a rival to the Kingdom of Germany?

As for the cores, I basically took them from an old map of the HRE. I didn't want to grant every possible German core to unbalance the event, but at the same I'm not sure of the extent of a German kingdom. Do you guys think, like Isaac Brock suggests, that Austrian cores are part of a forceful seizure of the German crown?

Regarding the badboy...that's a possibility, of course. My thought was that since this was a brute force method, the country creating Germany this way is doing so by being a badboy. :)

As I said, I appreciate any input as I really want to make this work. I've seen so many German unification threads come and go that I'd really like to put this question to rest in the best way possible.
 

unmerged(6159)

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Good thinking!

I really do think that Austria is more integral to Germany than Prussia. Certainly in 1500. I really think that the historical boundaries of the German Kingdom in 1520 (or whenever) make the most sense. This rasise the question of the Swiss of course...

By bounching events around it should be possible to use emperor=yes or the -6 trigger to establish that the emperor is vassal of the claimant. It does raise the question of what happens if the claimant is the emperor though.

As far as I know there is no way to disable the Empire in-game, even though that is exactly what happened in 1806 in real life. So even if someone forms Germany they will still be subject to the imperial rules.

I'd also suggest that the unifying country lose other cultures - Czech (HAB), French (LOR), Magyar(HAB), Frisian (if that's staying) Scandanavian (if SHL is getting Scandanavian), and so on.
 

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Isaac Brock said:
I really do think that Austria is more integral to Germany than Prussia. Certainly in 1500. I really think that the historical boundaries of the German Kingdom in 1520 (or whenever) make the most sense. This rasise the question of the Swiss of course...
I think that there's really two VERY different German unificantion events we're talking about here, and we need to decide which (or both) we are trying to implement. They are:

1) Taking the Holy Roman crown of Germany and making it into a centralized state.

To do this, I think you should have to BE the emperor, have the majority of the traditional kingdom (something like this map, minus Lotharingia, but including the Austrian March, Ostmark, and Nordmark), and have low bad boy. If you can pull that off, you should get cores on that area.

2) Creating a nationalist German state a couple centuries early. Here we're casting the protestant reformation as the beginnings of German nationalism, et cetera. You're not attempting to claim the existing crown; rather, you're creating a new crown.

To do it this way, I think you should have to be protestant, control the vast majority of protestant German lands, and have beaten back the emperor (vassalizing him). Then you get cores on all the protestant german lands.
Isaac Brock said:
By bounching events around it should be possible to use emperor=yes or the -6 trigger to establish that the emperor is vassal of the claimant. It does raise the question of what happens if the claimant is the emperor though.
Well, with my proposed approaches, that's not a problem. In the first you have to be the emperor, and in the second you cannot be the emperor (since you're not Catholic).
Isaac Brock said:
I'd also suggest that the unifying country lose other cultures - Czech (HAB), French (LOR), Magyar(HAB), Frisian (if that's staying) Scandanavian (if SHL is getting Scandanavian), and so on.
Good call. If we go with MKJ's culture scheme, then in my model, the first Germany gets Imperial culture, while the second one gets the new German culture.
 

unmerged(6159)

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doktarr said:
Well, with my proposed approaches, that's not a problem. In the first you have to be the emperor, and in the second you cannot be the emperor (since you're not Catholic).

This is not true. Protestants can be elected emperor if there are no more Catholics, and causing the game to crash simply because that possibility hasn't been taken into account is unacceptable.

That technical point aside, I don't really understand the protestant angle on this. There was no sense of a seperate protestant 'nation'. And big chunks of central and northwestern Germany were (and to some extent still are) Catholic. While there are obviously multiple cases of protestant staes forming leagues and such to defend their common interests I think it's a mistake to view these efforts as proto-nationalistic (or whatever term you might prefer). These came about to defend the common interests of the various states.

I don't think any Catholic nation should be able to become Germany. After all, the Holy Roman Emperor is already king of Germany, if in name only. All the Catholic duchies at least pay lip service to this.

I disagree here. I don't see any evidence that the catholics were any more committed to the German Kingdom than the protestants, or indeed showed any less loyalty to their King. Neither showed much, and this is as much an effect of the structure of the Empire as anything else. Religion changed the interests of some stated vis-a-vis the Empire, but even the protestants in the 30 years war were strongly committed to the existance of the Empire and showed nominal loyalty to it. Would Frederick V, had he been elected Emperor, had better relations with the catholic princes?

I say no, and realistically he couldn't have been elected because the protestant electors would have prefered a catholic candidate.

As to examples of catholic making war on the emperor I'd mention Cologne and Munster in 1672, Bavaria in 1702, Austria in 1741 (although the last is a little different because the Empire as a whole stayed neutral, unlike the other cases). In the 30 years war Saxony supported the Emperor for most of the war, as did Hesse-Darmstadt.

1) Taking the Holy Roman crown of Germany and making it into a centralized state.

To do this, I think you should have to BE the emperor, have the majority of the traditional kingdom (something like this map, minus Lotharingia, but including the Austrian March, Ostmark, and Nordmark), and have low bad boy. If you can pull that off, you should get cores on that area.

2) Creating a nationalist German state a couple centuries early. Here we're casting the protestant reformation as the beginnings of German nationalism, et cetera. You're not attempting to claim the existing crown; rather, you're creating a new crown.

I agree with all of this, but I see no reason why option 2 should be limited to protestants. (Or indeed why option 1 should be limited to catholics, but that's another issue.)

This method I'm proposing here is the most brutal option listed originally by Twoflower, and in my opinion, should be open to any German state that somehow pulls off such a bloody feat of taking all the Electors and vassalizing the emperor. Catholic or Protestant, if someone's ambitious...he's going to be ambitious.
This is my view too.


The whole idea of a Germany that excludes Austria comes from the 19th century and was a practical response to the situation of the German Confederation at that time.

I just don't see that anyone in the EU time frame would either view Germany as a protestant entity (unless they were looking to convert all of the Catholics in Germany and Austria), or even conceive of a Germany that excludes Austria.
 

Zander

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Maybe make the relations change -250 instead of -400? A strong reaction is appropriate, but it would seem odd for someone to go from your best friend to your most hated enemy even with this claim.
 

Norrefeldt

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Zander said:
Maybe make the relations change -250 instead of -400? A strong reaction is appropriate, but it would seem odd for someone to go from your best friend to your most hated enemy even with this claim.
I agree.
I fixed the link that wasn't working. There might be several different roads to becoming Germany, but this brute force option got to be in anyway IMO. I don't think you should get improved relations with your neighbours but backing of in the B option. In the creation of KoI the alternative is -1 stab, cannot remember why really, but I could go find the reason if you like. It was something with that this would have been showing weakness. Anyway, the cases are very similar.
I think doktarr are right in that there ought to be a BB limit (he said 10, sounds fine), this is the only way we can make sure the rule isn't too recent and nationalism willl to a large extent have died off.

This is the reaction to the creation of KoI, the reaction hits are in the coronation event, but they can be in the reaction event as you have done it. Many thought that you should have the possibility to seek the new rulers friendship, though the AI very rarely will. Also, creating Germany should break a RM you have with the nations you claim. It is more or less a claim to all the German states (at least those you get cores on) like the option in the diplomatic menu.
Code:
event = {
   	id = 275008
	trigger = { 
		exists = ITA
	     }
   	random = no
   	country = SAV
   	name = "The Kingdom of Italy threatens the balance"
   	desc = "The kingdom of Italy have formed, as an independent part of the Holy Roman Empire and
a new king have been crowned in Milan. They claim the right to all the lands in the north of the peninsula and their emergence threatens the balance."
	style = 1

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 5
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1820 }

   	action_a = {
      		name = "Bad news"
      		command = { type = casusbelli which = ITA value = 120 } 
      }
	action_b = {
      		name = "Seek their friendship"
		command = { type = diplomats value = -1 }
      		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		command = { type = relation which = ITA value = 100 }
      }
}
 
Last edited:

Mettermrck

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Norrefeldt said:
This is the reaction to the creation of KoI, the reaction hits are in the coronation event, but they can be in the reaction event as you have done it. Many thought that you should have the possibility to seek the new rulers friendship, though the AI very rarely will. Also, creating Germany should break a RM you have with the nations you claim. It is more or less a claim to all the German states (at least those you get cores on) like the option in the diplomatic menu.

That's a good model to use, Norrefeldt...I can model the reaction event off that then, to make the two unifications conform better. Now...would the switch to the HEI tag automatically break all royal marriages? Or is this something I would need to put in the coronation event?

Let's see. To sum the changes proposed that I like:

1) Relations from -400 to -250
2) Badboy limit of 10
3) Add Austrian cores
4) review the German cores
5) -6 trigger back to HAB
6) break all royal marriages with unifier
7) add a B option to the reaction event (modelled off the KoI event)

What are we thinking of for the cores? Are the German ones too much? And which Austrian ones are we contemplating adding? Ostmarch, Salzburg, Tirol, Austria, and Steiermark?
 

Norrefeldt

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Mettermrck said:
That's a good model to use, Norrefeldt...I can model the reaction event off that then, to make the two unifications conform better. Now...would the switch to the HEI tag automatically break all royal marriages? Or is this something I would need to put in the coronation event?
You have to break the marriages manually, the tag change won't do that. You should only break the RM:s with nations whos land you actually claim, mostly German minors then.

I found the reasoning for -1 stab (for KoI) for chickening out:
C.N. said:
"I'm starting to consider that a stability loss would be required for chickening out becoming Italy, since that would show weakness to opportunist factions that want the throne for them self."
You didn't give more than an indirect opinion on it.

I don't know enough on the cores here, so no opinion yet.
 

Mettermrck

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Norrefeldt said:
I found the reasoning for -1 stab (for KoI) for chickening out:
You didn't give more than an indirect opinion on it.
I don't know enough on the cores here, so no opinion yet.

That's probably the better option than the increased relations, since it isn't a reward for having messed up Germany's balance in the first place. :) I've edited the event in my first post to reflect some of the suggestions posted here. Let me know what you think.
 

|AXiN|

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I have a question, not sure if this is the right place to put it - in AoN the Holy Roman Empire has been replaced by the German Confederation, complete with correct borders. Does anyone know how this was done, and, if so, would it be of any use in the AGCEEP?
 

unmerged(6159)

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I think that province.csv tells you if a province is in the Empire or not. Could be wrong though.

As to the cores, the ones listed are the ones I'd add. Steiermark could possibly be left out.