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Jester

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Originally posted by Sute]{h
Hmm... to be best of my knowlegde this applies only to diplo-annexation and not force-annexation or have I missed something?

You are correct Suteh, I am wrong. I guess I should have read my own compilation of the Beta patches myself.

Late,
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unmerged(9145)

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Originally posted by Isaac Brock
Other than role playing what reason is there to unify Germany anyway?

For kicks? Because you'd like to do something different from one game to the next?

I also wrote a 'Greek Empire' series but I don't 'role-play' the Greeks. I just wanted to do something different, make a bit of alternate history even more alternate than what a typical game of EU2 already provides.

I also have a 'unify Scandinavia' series (probably the least ahistorical fantasy series I've written), which I did for the same reason ("hmmm...let's try something different than grabbing the Baltic for the 20th time....").

Although another poster gave me this idea for the german unification series: it only becomes available if Hungary refuses unification. If Hungary does this, then the alternate route becomes available (odds 1 in 18 games).

I like this. It doesn't allow one to take the road by choice unless Hungary gives you the finger, but *at that point* it becomes viable. That is, what would Austria had done if it hadn't inherited Hungary?

Max
 

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- only three nations can attempt it: Saxony, Bavaria, and Brandenburg.

Honestly, I don't see any good reason to restrict it to that extent. Yes, it might be a stretch to say that Baden would unite Germany... but, in an alternate timeline where Baden grew to be the most powerful state in Germany, what makes it less plausible than Brandenburg/Prussia?


I don't see why we should discriminate as to which German powers can become Germany, except that those which are not truly German (Denmark, Austria w/Hungary) shouldn't have the option.
 

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Because, in order for the events to work correctly, you'd have to write them for each nation. Or cut 'n paste them, then change event numbers and country tags.

To put it succinctly, this is a pita.

Max
 

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Sure, but I wouldn't think it would be that hard to cut, paste and modify. Especially depending on how the event works - if there's one "become Germany" event, then you only need one per German nation, which isn't too hard when you're just copying and changing the ID and country tag.
 

unmerged(6159)

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It sounds to me like someone just volunteered!
 

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See, though, if I were doing it, I'd base it more on the RUS model. Something like:


Code:
#The Unification of Germany#
event = {

	id = xxxx
	trigger = {
		owned = {
			province = 312 # Brandenburg
			data = -1
		}
		OR = {
			owned = { province = 349 data = -1 } # Bayern
			owned = { province = 372 data = -1 } # Wurttemburg
		}	
		OR = {
			owned = { province = 344 data = -1 } # Koln
			owned = { province = 345 data = -1 } # Pfalz
		}	
		OR = {
			owned = { province = 305 data = -1 } # Mecklenburg
			owned = { province = 310 data = -1 } # Hannover
		}	
		OR = {
			owned = { province = 311 data = -1 } # Magdeburg
			owned = { province = 331 data = -1 } # Sachsen
		}	
		atwar = no
	}
	random = no
	country = xxx
	name = "The Unification of Germany"
	desc = "Historically, Germany remained a loose confederation of small states until well into the 19th century. However, the strands of common culture and history existed long before then, and might have allowed a sufficiently ambitious nation the chance to create a new power in Europe."
	style = 2

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1600 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1820 }

	action_a ={
		name = "Germany will be ours!"
		command = { type = vp value = 200 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = badboy value = 5 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -100 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 304 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 305 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 306 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 310 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 311 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 312 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 329 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 330 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 331 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 332 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 333 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 334 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 335 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 343 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 344 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 345 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 346 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 347 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 348 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 349 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 372 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 373 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 374 }
		# Possibly sleep other nations' copies of the same event?
	}
	action_b ={
		name = "We are content."
		command = { type = badboy value = -1 }
	}
}


for each German state, with a more restrictive version for HAB.
 

LlywelynII

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Anyone shoot me down on this =D

Maxpublic, wouldn't it just be simpler to reset and use the relations between the nation and HRE,REB, PIR or one of the other 'function' tags?

At the very least, it's ridiculous that Germany would have been unified by someone with less than 5 bb pts. How could the Germans have respected them? :D

EDIT: OOOOh, I like Zander's idea more than yours :)

jay.
 

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Hmm. I wonder if the choice of the capital should effect DP. Certainly a capital located at hamburg, bordering upon the atlantic and a river, would have a more naval bent.
 

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I definitely don't like Zander's event example for one very basic reason: it gives cores *before* the provinces are conquered.

My basic rule of thumb for a fantasy series of events is this: you don't get the cores until *after* you take the province - ever. His event hands you a buttload of cores for no particular reason (and no historical justification), with the alternative being a whopping -1 badboy.

Hoowah. Well, we know what the non-braindead player is going to choose, eh?

German unification should be possible. It should be achievable. And the rewards should be commensurate. But because it's a fantasy series and barely believable (moreso than Byzantium but sure as hell less so than Scandinavian unification) it should be a damned difficult road. One where, if you actually achieve it, you feel like you've done something really unique - and *then* you're handed the chest of gold and goodies.

But not before.

BTW, I also recently tested an Italian unification series modeled on the German series above, with a slightly better reward scheme (as the Papal states). It works much, much better for Italia than for Germany, and the end result is a major power of real consequence - but not one that's the equal of a united France or Great Britain. I'm of the opinion that that's what a German unification series should try for - hard to do, a respectable major power at the end, but not a superpower.

Max
 

Jester

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I definitely concur with MaxPublic.

Handing out cores in an ahistorical event is not the way that I think fantasy unification events shoudl be handled. Cores are given in historicla events in oreder to encourage the AI to do what was done historically. Fantasy events are just that-Fantasy and should generally not be easy to achieve. More often than not Fantasy events are only going to be used by the Player anyway. It should be a struggle to unite Germany/Italy and then once you have finally acheived it you should gain some sort of legitimacy represented by Core shields.

Late,
Jester
 

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Originally posted by maxpublic
I definitely don't like Zander's event example for one very basic reason: it gives cores *before* the provinces are conquered.

My basic rule of thumb for a fantasy series of events is this: you don't get the cores until *after* you take the province - ever. His event hands you a buttload of cores for no particular reason (and no historical justification), with the alternative being a whopping -1 badboy.

Well, really a -6, since the other choice gives you 5. ;)

Obviously, if your rule is "no one ever gets cores except for provinces they've already taken", then there is, indeed, only one way to do it. So, do it your way.

Howver, I think the "no historical justification" is a little unfair. I don't personally believe that German culture and society changed so strongly between 1819 and 1871 that it is completely implausible that Germany could have been unified before then. Further, I don't think that it's entirely realistic that a country that does unify Germany should suffer the full BB for annexing every single country in that region.

That being said, I'm pretty new to this modding discussion, so my opinion may not count for much.
 

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German Society changed VERY radically between 1790 and 1820. As indeed did German culture and politics. Probably as big a change as anyone ever went through.

A start date of 1800 might make a lot of sense. But it's kind of pointless as you have so little time to do anything.

I think that it might be alright to give out cores to "finish the job" - i.e., you don't need to own Lorraine to get cores on it, and if you missed out on taking Wurzburg you can get a core on that too.
 

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If the german culture is split up into 3 or 6 different cultures, they could be used in unification events. If a state controls a certain number of important provinces (Bavaria, Köln, Hannover etc.) then the state receives all of the different cultures. This is symbolizing widespread support for a unifying state, but no cores are given. Once the state has all of the provinces required to change to Germany, then the cores are given.

Or, if you don't want cores at all to be given (would make Germany too powerful), then the unifier could receive all german cultures only once he has unified Germany.
 

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Of course, cores matter less now than they did before. Prior to 1.07 there was a time when manpower actually mattered, and you could run out of it while in the middle of a war. Now any non-tiny nation will almost always have more manpower than they can possibly use or support, which defeats part of the purpose of having a core in the first place.

The problem now with giving out a core prior to getting the territory is that it gives you a free CB against the owner. Which means a max -1 stab for each war, and you're off to the races! No need to rest up between conquests and try to restabilize the country, which you'd realistically have to do since there was no sense of German unity during this time frame. With cores I could take all of proto-Germany before 1500 if I played my cards right, which is too fantastical even for my tastes.

So it seems to me to make more sense to give out the cores after conquest, meaning that you still have to take the stab hits (or wait for random CBs), pausing between meals. The core is still mildly useful after the fact, as you won't have to deal with 30 years of RR in those provinces (unless you conquer in a very haphazard manner).

I just don't want to see a fantasy German series turn into a Byzantium look-alike.

Max
 

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Well, my suggestions would have the cores given after unification, if they are to be given at all.
 

Atreides

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I'm with Classique on just about everything there - well articulated sir.
 

Phystarstk

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After lots of thought on any unification of Germany, I have an idea. Split the unification into 2 main possibilities.
1.Prior to 1750, instead of declaring a Germany, I think there should be a way to make the HRE an actual state. If you are HRE and control many important provinces (dont ask me which) in the HRE, then you should be able to declare yourself the HRE and gain the HRE as cores. Of course, in order to make this difficult, I still support the creation of several Sub-German cultures. For declaring your nation a true nation of the HRE, you would get a -2 stability hit. Unlike the next option, however, there would not be a universal German culture.
2.1750 and after, you can be any nation with German culture and a capitol Germany (I dont feel like figuring out which :p). You would have to control every province or most provinces of the old HRE. You could then declare yourself the Grand German Reich. However, you wouldn't get any rewards, and your relations witht the Habsburgs in Austria and Spain would be destroyed. After 10 years or so, an option would come up. You could either make Germany truly universal (thus dispatching with the old cultures and having one unified culture and having german cores) or continue as is. If you decide to make it universal, however, you would gain a -5 stability hit and lots of revolts.

Just an idea.
 

Phystarstk

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Just to clarify, the first option would really be a sort of centralization of the HRE in case you were wondering what I meant. It could start with an event which would either ask you to centralize the HRE and make the role hereditary (which would give large stability hits and revolts). If you decline, then thing stay normal. These are just vague suggestions. Shoot them around, beat em up, whateva. Just puttin my two cents in.