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Renumbered Dukes of Burgundy

YodaMaster said:
You're right, we will have to renumber all Jean alternate/fantasy monarchs and leaders for Burgundy too.
I'm right!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! :eek:o :eek:o :eek:o :eek:o :D :D :D

Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 027019 }
	startdate = {
		year = 1560
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1598
	}
	name = "Jean [COLOR=Yellow]III[/COLOR] Roi de Lune *"
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 7
	MIL = 8
	dormant = yes
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 027025 }
	startdate = {
		year = 1769
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1787
	}
	name = "Jean [COLOR=Yellow]IV[/COLOR] *"
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 4
	dormant = yes
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 027039 }
	startdate = {
		day = 27
		month = march
		year = 1482
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 15
		month = january
		year = 1521
	}
	name = "Jean [COLOR=Yellow]III[/COLOR] le Pieux °"
	DIP = 7
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 6
	dormant = yes
	remark = "Johann II der Fromme"
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 027040 }
	startdate = {
		day = 15
		month = january
		year = 1521
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 6
		month = february
		year = 1539
	}
	name = "Jean [COLOR=Yellow]IV[/COLOR] le Paisible *"
	DIP = 6
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 6
	dormant = yes
	remark = "Johann III der Friedliche"
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 027043 }
	startdate = {
		day = 25
		month = march
		year = 1609
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1650
	}
	name = "Jean [COLOR=Yellow]V[/COLOR] *"
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 6
	dormant = yes
}
Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 027311 }
	category = monarch
	name = "Jean [COLOR=Yellow]III[/COLOR] le Pieux"
	startdate = {
		year = 1490
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1521
	}
	rank = 0
	movement = 3
	fire = 3
	shock = 2
	siege = 0
	dormant = yes
	remark = "alternative Mary's husband, Johann II der Fromme, Duke of Kleve and Mark"
}
 
YodaMaster said:
You just wasted your time. And my version is better, without nicknames... ;)

Anyway, this is a bugfix, not a proposal.
I'd already written them before you posted your edit. :)

Your version will always be better. :eek:o

Why do I bother? :D
 
mandead said:
Why do I bother? :D
But I have a doubt now...

It depends how we see Jean II le Bon. And he doesn't count for French wikipedia... There is a hole between 1361 and 1363. And numbering is even forgotten ("Jean sans Peur" only) in many other sources.
There is even a difference in English wikipedia between the family tree and the list.

Not sure if we shouldn't keep "Jean Ier" because of this...

Interesting article. See John the Good and the establishment of the Burgundian Valois’
 
Last edited:
YodaMaster said:
By default... none.
But for the Bold, the Good, &c. for Burgundy, we keep?

re naming debate, he should be Jean II as Jean Ier was Jean II of France who as the first Valois duke of Burgundy held the title Jean Ier.

I realise there are discrepancies, but from what I've read and understand on the issue sans Peur should be the second duke, not the first.
 
A bit late, but I hate leaving questions unanswered.
Toio said:
What was french? , what was gascon?, what was norman? what was savoyard?
I believe we are talking about what historians and linguists usually call "Middle French", that is the one between Old and Modern French. No idea what the other dialects you are mentioning have to do with the discussed issue.

This is a silly (bordering on racist comment) statement based only on current historical knowledge due to french dominance.
If brittany dominated the DAU in the middle ages, the "backyard language" would have been french.
Except that Britanny didn't "dominate" DAU. As for calling me a racist, I am glad to learn that the Bretons constitute a race, or is it only the Western ones that do so? Now, I am merely stating a fact, Celtic Breton was literally a backyard language in XVth century France (and I could write the same thing exactly about Corsican, despite my very strong personnal ties with Corsica).

if the BRI monarch used entirely a french name for himself, the "revolutionists"of minor breton nobles ( with support from the merchant class ) would have toppled this "french" king of brittany and replaced him with a breton named one. This is how history went
SO, most likely this breton king would have had a breton name.
Lastly, what kind of fantasy history is that?


Now, to settle the matter, I found this interesting Breton site. It's in French but I'll translate the parts that concern us, especially on page 2.

Basically, it tells us that the Breton political elites began to abandon the Celtic Breton for the Romance between the seventh and eleventh centuries. By the twelfth century, the elites [including the Duke I would believe] were not using it any more and it was only known of a few aristocrats and scholars [as a second language seems to be implied].

The map is interesting too. It shows that Celtic Breton had begun to recede well before the Third Republic. The yellow line is for the seventh-eleventh centuries period, while the blue one (Sébillot line) is late nineteenth century. This is quite far from our period, so here is another quote:
The limit of Breton Britanny was by then 10 to 20 km further East than the Sébillot line. [West of this line,] Breton was the language of the rurals while the cities were bilingual.
This is from Temps de crises, temps d'espoirs (XIVè-XVè siècle) by Alain Demurger (Points Seuil Histoire, 1990).

So dukes of Britanny, in our timeline, even though they might have learned Celtic Breton as a second language, did speak French, and that was probably easier for them seeing, that they were mostly involved diplomatically and matrimonially with other French princes, that they had private hotels in Paris where they were residing for some significant part of the year, and that they happened to have their capital in an area where even the lower classes were not speaking Celtic Breton.
 
Last edited:
mandead said:
Yoda, re the bug thread, are we okay to have Orléans as DAU's L2 fort in 1419? :)
I am not. I don't think the EU2 provinces are meant to represent only their city. The so-called "Orléans" province covers a large area comprised between the Seine and Loire rivers, an area that was almost entirely conquered by the English and the Burgundians between 1420 and 1429.

Like I said before, the English are currently unable to do that, most of the times. Therefore, and unless you are able to prove that Orléans or any other city within the province had particularly strong fortifications in 1419 (I can't seem to recall that Orléans ever did, it held so long because the Dauphin and the other French nobles knew that they could not afford to lose it, lest they lose the war.), I think that the fortress should be removed.


EDIT: I'll get back to you tomorrow about Jean sans Peur.
 
Last edited:
Third Angel said:
I am not. I don't think the EU2 provinces are meant to represent only their city. The so-called "Orléans" province covers a large area comprised between the Seine and Loire rivers, an area that was almost entirely conquered by the English and the Burgundians between 1420 and 1429.

Like I said before, the English are currently unable to do that, most of the times. Therefore, and unless you are able to prove that Orléans or any other city within the province had particularly strong fortifications in 1419 (I can't seem to recall that Orléans ever did, it held so long because the Dauphin and the other French nobles knew that they could not afford to lose it, lest they lose the war.), I think that the fortress should be removed.
Think of it in game terms... the English had great problems in taking that 'area' - hence the historical result. IIRC Yoda agrees (from another thread) - of late I have seen ENG sweep through the area - particularly once I've removed the L2 forts from my latest betas - and I think it is certainly beneficial for DAU/FRA to have that extra spot of defense on the Loire... ENG's biggest problem tends to be in Orléans/Berry (both L2 forts in previous/current versions) and afterwards - should they take those provinces - they tend to sweep down and Final Victory fires.

So, from a gameplay/AI perspective, I disagree with you.




Third Angel said:
EDIT: I'll get back to you tomorrow about Jean sans Peur.
Okay doke. :)
 
Third Angel said:
A bit late, but I hate leaving questions unanswered.I believe we are talking about what historians and linguists usually call "Middle French", that is the one between Old and Modern French. No idea what the other dialects you are mentioning have to do with the discussed issue.

Except that Britanny didn't "dominate" DAU. As for calling me a racist, I am glad to learn that the Bretons constitute a race, or is it only the Western ones that do so? Now, I am merely stating a fact, Celtic Breton was literally a backyard language in XVth century France (and I could write the same thing exactly about Corsican, despite my very strong personnal ties with Corsica).

Lastly, what kind of fantasy history is that?


Now, to settle the matter, I found this interesting Breton site. It's in French but I'll translate the parts that concern us, especially on page 2.

Basically, it tells us that the Breton political elites began to abandon the Celtic Breton for the Romance between the seventh and eleventh centuries. By the twelfth century, the elites [including the Duke I would believe] were not using it any more and it was only known of a few aristocrats and scholars [as a second language seems to be implied].

The map is interesting too. It shows that Celtic Breton had begun to recede well before the Third Republic. The yellow line is for the seventh-eleventh centuries period, while the blue one (Sébillot line) is late nineteenth century. This is quite far from our period, so here is another quote:This is from Temps de crises, temps d'espoirs (XIVè-XVè siècle) by Alain Demurger (Points Seuil Histoire, 1990).

So dukes of Britanny, in our timeline, even though they might have learned Celtic Breton as a second language, did speak French, and that was probably easier for them seeing, that they were mostly involved diplomatically and matrimonially with other French princes, that they had private hotels in Paris where they were residing for some significant part of the year, and that they happened to have their capital in an area where even the lower classes were not speaking Celtic Breton.

:confused: I do not know what you are aiming at, we have already got an agreement on breton lands which will turn french, I am still waiting on the event /s to be presented.
It does not concern me to change these lands into french although Gallo was the correct language in the area.
This Oïl language is the ancestor of several languages spoken today, including:

* Bourguignon-Morvandiau
* Champenois
* Franc-Comtois
* French
o Acadian French
o Belgian French
o Cajun French
o Metropolitan French (Metropolitan France)
o Quebec French
o Swiss French
* Gallo language
* Lorrain
* Norman
o Dgèrnésiais
o Jèrriais
* Picard
* Poitevin
* Saintongeais
* Walloon

o are dialects, * are regional languages

2. When did middle french begin ?

3. Your terminolgy of dialect needs correcting, a dialect is, as examples, english-australian, english-american, english-scottish, etc etc
Dialect is only a 20th century terminology

You are referring to regional languages I presume .

4. Back to topic...........I asked 1 question, should BRI have french culture. This is both a historical and game question. whats your point of view.

just note: I will be asking the question of .should Navarra have catalan and french cultures?

I am asking all these cultural questions because the theory we had up to a year or so ago is wrong. So some nations/states need a correction, granted game issues need to be taken into consideration.

regards
 
Reworked Queen Jane Sequence (24/10/08)

mandead said:
Code:
#(1553) The Nine Days' Queen
event = {
	id = 164263
	trigger = {
		[COLOR=Yellow]OR = {
			monarch = 046044 #John Dudley (Edward VI)
			monarch = 046051 #Edward VI
		}[/COLOR]
		event = 3009 #ENG: The Act of Supremacy
		OR = {
			religion = protestant
			religion = reformed
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME164263" #The Nine Days' Queen
	desc = "EVENTHIST164263"

	date = { day = 5 month = july year = 1553 }

	action_a = {
	name = "ACTIONNAME164263A" #Mary Tudor is our Queen!
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = -1 }
		command = { type = relation which = SCO value = 25 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 25 }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 25 }
		command = { type = conversion which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -2 } #Jane's supporters
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		[COLOR=Lime]command = { type = trigger which = 164270 } #ENG: The Protestant Succession[/COLOR]
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME164263B" #Adhere to King Edward's will
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 046052 } #Jane
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 046011 } #Mary I
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 2 }
		command = { type = relation which = SCO value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = -50 }
		command = { type = conversion which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -2 } #Mary's supporters
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 164264 } #ENG: The Protestant Succession (Ahistorical)
	}
}

#-# As fifteen year-old Edward VI lay dying in July 1553, his Catholic half-sister Mary was still the heiress presumptive to the throne. However, Edward named the Protestant heirs of his father's sister, Mary Tudor, as his successors in a will composed on his deathbed, probably under the persuasion of Northumberland. Both Edward and Northumberland knew that this effectively left the throne to Edward's cousin Jane Grey who, like them, was a staunch Protestant. Four days after King Edward's death, Northumberland had Lady Jane Grey proclaimed Queen of England. Within only nine days, Mary had managed to find sufficient support to ride into London in a triumphal procession on 19th July. Parliament had no choice but to declare Mary the rightful Queen and denounced and revoked Jane's proclamation as having been coerced. Nevertheless, many high-ranking nobles had proved themselves pliable to having Jane as Queen. Acting largely out of financial self-interest, they supported her even if only as part of a power struggle to keep the staunchly Catholic Mary from ascending the throne. Jane's rule ended quickly when the nobles abandoned their support once they realised Mary had won the day. Mary originally pardoned both Jane and her husband, though after a subsequent attempt by their supporters to seize the crown, Mary had them executed for high treason. Had the Protestant plot been successful, Jane would ruled in place of the unpopular and unpredictable Mary, though it is difficult to say what would have happened on the latter's death. Mary's much more popular Protestant half-sister, Elizabeth, would then have been heir, and with her claim being decidedly stronger than Jane's, she would have been her obvious successor, and may well even have been pressured into taking the throne for herself...

Code:
#(1558) The Protestant Succession (Ahistorical)
event = {
	id = 164264 #triggered by ENG_164263B
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME164264" The Protestant Succession (Ahistorical)
	desc = "EVENTHIST164264"

	date = { day = 17 month =  november year = 1558 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME164264A" #God Save Queen Elizabeth!
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 12 value = -3 }
		command = { type = stability value = 2 }
		command = { type = vp value = 10 }
	}
}

#-# After Queen Jane's successful usurpation and coronation in 1553, Mary's chances of ascending her half-brother's throne became slimmer by the day. Despite several low-key revolts in her name, successive miscarriages by various Catholic nobles and a failed marriage proposal to the future King of Spain resulted only in Mary further alienating herself from the people of England. Living in almost complete isolation in the royal apartments at Windsor, Mary - guarded at all times by fervent Puritans hand-picked by the Queen - was given few diplomatic options, with letters to and from anyone known to be in anyway pro-Catholic being burnt before reaching her. For both Queens, however, the situation was a difficult one for as long as both of them lived. Despite being deeply unpopular amongst the majority of the English, Mary was the true heir to the throne, being both the eldest sister of Edward VI and daughter of Henry VIII. Jane, though firmly established as Queen and recognised as such among the Protestant powers of Europe, was a usurper, and as well as being excommunicated by the Pope, there were rumours that plans were being made to replace Jane with Mary's half-sister, the Protestant Elizabeth - a most dangerous proposition for Jane, as hitherto her one unwavering strength had been Mary's rabid Catholicism. To Parliament, the true maker and breaker of kings, the choice was a lot simpler: Jane would reign for as long as Mary lived, the crown being offered to the Princess Elizabeth upon her half-sister's death. None of the parties involved with this arrangement were particularly happy about it, but to Parliament it ensured both the Protestant Succession and the continuation of the Tudor dynasty in the male line. Legally and constitutionally the Protestant Succession of 1558 was sound - it was also considered acceptable by the majority of the English people, not to mention undoubtedly avoiding the inevitable civil war had either side taken power by force.

Code:
#(1558) The Protestant Succession
event = {
	id = 164270 #triggered by ENG_164263A
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME164270" The Protestant Succession
	desc = "EVENTHIST164270"

	date = { day = 17 month =  november year = 1558 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME164270A" #God Save Queen Elizabeth!
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 12 value = -3 }
		command = { type = stability value = 2 }
		command = { type = vp value = 10 }
	}
}

#-# According to John Foxe’s legendary account of his death, Edward VI's last words were: "I am faint, Lord have mercy upon me, and take my spirit." The premature end of the life of England's first Protestant king had been foreseen by many, and with the martyrdom of that other great Protestant zealot, Thomas Cranmer, in 1556, the short-lived Anglican experiment seemed forever at an end, hastened by the ascension of the staunchly-Catholic Princess Mary in July 1553. In many ways, Mary Tudor was a complete disaster as Queen - not only did her failed marriage to the King of Spain result in many Englishmen beginning to view their ancient kingdom as nothing more than the northernmore outpost of the Habsburg empire, but the domestic policies of 'Bloody Mary' resulted in hundreds of innocent Protestants being burnt at the stake. Despite Mary's indisputable claim to the throne as Henry VIII's eldest legitimate child, many people had wondered whether 'Queen Jane' had not been a better idea afterall. In the end, however, the one thing which threatened to thrust the people of England further into darkness had, in fact, brought them back into the light: the apparent birth of a child in November 1558 - the heir to a combined Anglo-Spanish empire - turned out to be a fatal tumour. Mary died on the 17th of the month, the throne passing to the last-surviving child of Henry VIII, the Protestant Elizabeth: England's Golden Age had begun.

Obviously, this event should only fire for Mary...

Code:
#(1554) Bloody Mary and King Felipe of England
#Edited by Johnny Canuck [COLOR=Lime]& mandead[/COLOR]
event = {
	id = 3014
	trigger = {
		[COLOR=Lime]monarch = 046011 #Mary I[/COLOR]
		event = 3009 #ENG: The Act of Supremacy
	}
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME3014" #Bloody Mary and King Felipe of England
	desc = "EVENTHIST3014"

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1554 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1554 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3014A" #Reinstate Papal power over Church of England
		command = { type = religion which = catholic }
		command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = -3 }
		#command = { type = conversion which = -1 } #will not work because state religion is changed too
		command = { type = missionaries value = 3 }
		command = { type = dynastic which = SPA }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 100 }
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3014B" #Make Catholicism the most favored religion
		command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = -1 }
		command = { type = missionaries value = 1 }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 25 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 50 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3014C" #Confirm religious freedom for all
		command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = 2 }
		command = { type = missionaries value = -6 }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -150 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 21030 } #ENG: The Elizabethan Religious Settlement
	}
}

Code:
#(1553) Jane Grey and the Revolt against Northumberland
#Edited by Johnny Canuck [COLOR=Lime]& mandead[/COLOR]
event = {
	id = 3013
	[COLOR=Lime]trigger = {
		monarch = 046011 #Mary I
		event = 3009 #ENG: The Act of Supremacy
		event = 164263 #ENG: The Nine Days' Queen
	}[/COLOR]
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME3013" #Jane Grey and the Revolt against Northumberland
	desc = "EVENTHIST3013"

	date = { day = [COLOR=Yellow]19[/COLOR] month = july year = 1553 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3013A" #Let us revolt against Northumberland
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 36 value = 6 }
[COLOR=Lime]		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }[/COLOR]
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3013B" #Let us negotiate with Northumberland
		command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = -1 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
	}
}

Garbon said:
Why don't we do something like this:

If Catholic - No Jane, transition directly to Mary.

If Protestant or Reformed - Jane rules...and then depending on some level of aristocracy and centralization (basically we need to see what England typically has at this time) Mary can come to the throne. And then if those conditions are not met Jane rules until a transition to Elizabeth.
Okay, a few things...

First, monarchs. :)

The Elizabeth here is a new monarch (dormant) - lower stats, later start date:


Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 046051 }
	startdate = {
		day = 6
		month = july
		year = 1553
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 19
		month = august
		year = 1577
	}
	name = "Jane"
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 3
	dormant = yes
	remark = "The Nine Days' Queen"
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 046052 }
	startdate = {
		day = 19
		month = august
		year = 1577
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 24
		month = march
		year = 1603
	}
	name = "Elizabeth I"
	DIP = 6
	ADM = 8
	MIL = 7
	dormant = yes
	remark = "Alternate. Succeeds Jane later in life."
}

Now, ENG has 9 centralisation in the 1520 scenario - this seems about right (certainly, by the end of Henry VIII's reign centralisation should be no lower than 8) - thus, I think by the death of Edward VI (1553) expecting ENG to have 7/8 centralisation is pretty fair. Aristocracy is 8 in 1520; therefore we'll go with 7 for the event in question.

Of course, these numbers are all up for debate, but I'm just going with what I consider to make sense...


Code:
#(1553) The Nine Days' Queen [COLOR=Lime]-I-[/COLOR]
event = {
	id = 164263
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			monarch = 046044 #John Dudley (Edward VI)
			monarch = 046051 #Edward VI
		}
		event = 3009 #ENG: The Act of Supremacy
		[COLOR=Lime]domestic = { type = centralization value = 8 }[/COLOR]
		[COLOR=Lime]domestic = { type = aristocracy value = 7 }[/COLOR]
		OR = {
			religion = protestant
			religion = reformed
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME164263" #The Nine Days' Queen [COLOR=Lime]-I-[/COLOR]
	desc = "EVENTHIST164263"

	date = { day = 5 month = july year = 1553 }

	action_a = {
	name = "ACTIONNAME164263A" #Mary Tudor is our Queen!
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = -1 }
		command = { type = relation which = SCO value = 25 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 25 }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 25 }
		command = { type = conversion which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -2 } #Jane's supporters
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		[COLOR=Lime]command = { type = trigger which = 164270 } #ENG: The Protestant Succession[/COLOR]
	}
[COLOR=Red]	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME164263B" #Adhere to King Edward's will
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 046052 } #Jane
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 046011 } #Mary I
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 2 }
		command = { type = relation which = SCO value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = -50 }
		command = { type = conversion which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -2 } #Mary's supporters
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 164264 } #ENG: The Protestant Succession (Ahistorical)
	}[/COLOR]
}

Code:
#(1553) The Nine Days' Queen [COLOR=Lime]-II- Ahistorical[/COLOR]
event = {
	id = 164263
	trigger = {
			monarch = 046010 #Edward Seymour (Edward VI)
		event = 3009 #ENG: The Act of Supremacy
		}
		OR = {
			religion = catholic
			religion = counterreform
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME164263" #The Nine Days' Queen [COLOR=Lime]-II- Ahistorical[/COLOR]
	desc = "EVENTHIST164263"

	date = { day = 5 month = july year = 1553 }

	action_a = {
	name = "ACTIONNAME164263A" #Mary Tudor is our Queen!
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = -1 }
		command = { type = relation which = SCO value = 25 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = 25 }
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = 25 }
		command = { type = conversion which = -1 }
		command = { type = revolt which = -2 } #Jane's supporters
		command = { type = revolt which = -1 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		[COLOR=Lime]command = { type = trigger which = 164270 } #ENG: The Protestant Succession[/COLOR]
	}
}

I am confused, shall carry on later. :eek:o :rofl:
 
Last edited:
Toio said:
:confused: I do not know what you are aiming at
I was under the impression that you, with others, were advocating a change of names for the Breton dukes, my intention was to prove you wrong. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

we have already got an agreement on breton lands which will turn french, I am still waiting on the event /s to be presented.
It does not concern me to change these lands into french although Gallo was the correct language in the area.
I will not script or amend the events because I think Rennes and Nantes should be French from the start or not at all. Like the documents I provided above show, the linguistic line did not move significantly over our timeline.
(Now, if I was to have my personnal take on the matter, all three provinces would have a specific culture, Breton, for the whole game.)

This Oïl language is the ancestor of several languages spoken today, including:

* Bourguignon-Morvandiau
* Champenois
* Franc-Comtois
* French
o Acadian French
o Belgian French
o Cajun French
o Metropolitan French (Metropolitan France)
o Quebec French
o Swiss French
* Gallo language
* Lorrain
* Norman
o Dgèrnésiais
o Jèrriais
* Picard
* Poitevin
* Saintongeais
* Walloon

o are dialects, * are regional languages
Irrelevant. Also, just so you know, I have been living in France for the last thirty-four years, spent quite some time in Picardie, Nantes and Franche-Comté, and have yet to meet someone who speaks Picard, Gallo or Franc-comtois. They do have weird expressions sometimes but that's it. So your list looks quite fantasist to me.

2. When did middle french begin ?
Irrelevant too, certainly you can find for yourself if you are interested in such matters.

3. Your terminolgy of dialect needs correcting, a dialect is, as examples, english-australian, english-american, english-scottish, etc etc
Dialect is only a 20th century terminology

You are referring to regional languages I presume .
Irrelevant again.

4. Back to topic...........I asked 1 question, should BRI have french culture. This is both a historical and game question. whats your point of view.
According to what I posted above, which you did not contest, BRI shoudl have french as primary culture, and not only because they spoke French, please re-read my post.



And now Jean sans Peur will have to wait until tonight.
 
Third Angel said:
.

I will not script or amend the events because I think Rennes and Nantes should be French from the start or not at all. Like the documents I provided above show, the linguistic line did not move significantly over our timeline.
(Now, if I was to have my personnal take on the matter, all three provinces would have a specific culture, Breton, for the whole game.)


According to what I posted above, which you did not contest, BRI shoudl have french as primary culture, and not only because they spoke French, please re-read my post.

let me understand you, you claim THE linguistic line for the issues in regards to breton and french divisions and yet you go against the major linguistic line (isogloss) in regards to the division of italy ?

with regards to french culture for BRI for all the game, you are then happy if BRI can rule vast amounts of french lands without issue, which sometimes happen. actually, there ahistorical alliance with FRA nearly always guarantees that BRI get to own some of ENG french lands.
 
I always found this event very one-sided; sure, England would likely hand the Burgundians the region, but it shouldn't be forced upon the player.

Code:
#(1422-1423) Nivernais is granted to Burgundy
event = {
	id = 164170
	random = no
	country = ENG
	trigger = {
		event = 170288 #FRA: The Treaty of Troyes
		owned = { province = 386 data = ENG } #Nivernais
		NOT = {
			war = { country = ENG country = BUR }
			event = 164173 #ENG: Proposal at Amiens
		}
	}
	name = "EVENTNAME164170" #Nivernais is Granted to Burgundy
	desc = "EVENTHIST164170"

	date = { day = 1 month = september year = 1422 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1423 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME164170A" #Hand the region to Burgundy
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = BUR value = 386 } #Nivernais
		command = { type = relation which = BUR value = 15 }
	}
	[COLOR=Lime]action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME164170B" #What? It's ours!
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 386 value = 4 } #Nivernais
		command = { type = revolt which = 386 } #Nivernais
		command = { type = relation which = BUR value = -50 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
	}[/COLOR]
}
Code:
#(1425-1461) English Final Victory
event = {
	id = 164180 #triggered by DAU_361024
	trigger = {
		war = { country = ENG country = DAU }
	}
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME164180" #English Final Victory
	desc = "EVENTHIST164180"

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME164180A" #Our Rights are Finally Confirmed!
		command = { type = stability value = 3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = land value = 2 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 383 } #Picardie
		command = { type = addcore which = 411 } #Orleanais
		command = { type = addcore which = 412 } #Maine
		command = { type = addcore which = 376 } #Champagne
		command = { type = addcore which = 386 } #Nivernais
		command = { type = addcore which = 407 } #Dauphiné
		command = { type = addcore which = 408 } #Lyonnais
		command = { type = addcore which = 410 } #Berri
		command = { type = addcore which = 417 } #Vendée
		command = { type = addcore which = 418 } #Poitou
		command = { type = addcore which = 419 } #Limousin
		command = { type = addcore which = 420 } #Auvergne
		command = { type = addcore which = 421 } #Cévennes
		command = { type = addcore which = 422 } #Languedoc
		command = { type = addcore which = 423 } #Guyenne
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 412 value = -4 } #Maine
		[COLOR=Lime]command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 386 value = -4 } #Nivernais[/COLOR]
		command = { type = vp value = 50 }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = french }
		command = { type = inherit which = DAU }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164179 } #ENG: Orleanists Wish to Surrender to Burgundy
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164173 } #ENG: Proposal at Amiens
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 137063 } #BUR: Treaty of Amiens, 1423
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164178 } #ENG: Burgundy is Rewarded
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164192 } #ENG: We'll Never Recover Champagne
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164193 } #ENG: We'll never recover Nivernais
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164194 } #ENG: We've lost the loyalty of Caux for good
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164195 } #ENG: We've lost the loyalty of Normandy for good
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164196 } #ENG: We've lost Gascogne for good
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164197 } #ENG: We've lost Poitou for good
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164198 } #ENG: We've lost the loyalty of Guyenne for good
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164199 } #ENG: We have no hope in Paris
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164200 } #ENG: We have no hope in Maine and Anjou
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164201 } #ENG: We have no hope in Orleans
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164177 } #ENG: Bedford is Granted the Duchy Lands of Anjou
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164217 } #ENG: Maine and Anjou our ours
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164059 } #ENG: Suffolk's Impeachment
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164061 } #ENG: Cade's Rebellion
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164062 } #ENG: Dartford
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164063 } #ENG: The Reading Parliament
	}
}
 
ENG badboy (1419 - 1453)

Okay, there's a serious problem with England's badboy during the HYW: she begins with 5 (which is fair enough) but then ends up with loads through various events and DoWs via event - the end result is that by the late 1420s ENG is usually at war with DAU/FRA, BRI, BUR, SCO, some if not all of the Irish minors, DAN/NOR/SWE, LUX, CAS, &c.

It's totally ridiculous and completely unplayable, particularly as they're badboy wars and therefore no one will accept peace.

ENG's BB needs seriously nerfing somewhere, or the HYW quickly becomes very ahistorical with swathes of Europe DoW'ing ENG.

Not only does this make life hell for the player, but it's totally unrealistic insofar as ENG experienced relatively little outside interference during this period.
 
Scottish Monarchs

Some amendments & additions with regards to previous work on monarchs.ENG

James VI (SCO) has higher stats than James I (ENG), but I'll leave them as he was of course King of Scots for years before he became King of England - all later monarchs should have identical stats to in monarchs.ENG, however. :)


Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119514 }
	startdate = {
		day = 14
		month = december
		year = 1542
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 24
		month = july
		year = 1567
	}
	name = "Mary [COLOR=Lime]I[/COLOR]"
	DIP = 6
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 6
	dormant = no
	remark = "Forced to abdicate"
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119530 }
	startdate = {
		day = 24
		month = july
		year = 1567
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 21
		month = february
		year = 1607
	}
	name = "Mary [COLOR=Lime]I [/COLOR][COLOR=Red]*[/COLOR]"
	DIP = 6
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 6
	dormant = yes
	remark = "she survives from the beheading"
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119516 }
	startdate = {
		day = 27
		month = march
		year = 1625
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 23
		month = april
		year = 1660
	}
	name = "Charles I"
	DIP = [COLOR=Yellow]5[/COLOR]
	ADM = [COLOR=Yellow]6[/COLOR]
	MIL = [COLOR=Yellow]5[/COLOR]
	dormant = no
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119517 }
	startdate = {
		day = 23
		month = april
		year = 1660
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 6
		month = february
		year = 1685
	}
	name = "Charles II"
	DIP = 6
	ADM = [COLOR=Yellow]5[/COLOR]
	MIL = [COLOR=Yellow]3[/COLOR]
	dormant = no
	remark = "de facto, with the Restoration of the Stuarts"
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119524 }
	startdate = {
		day = [COLOR=Yellow]29[/COLOR]
		month = [COLOR=Yellow]january[/COLOR]
		year = 1649
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 6
		month = february
		year = 1685
	}
	name = "Charles II"
	DIP = 6
	ADM = [COLOR=Yellow]5[/COLOR]
	MIL = [COLOR=Yellow]3[/COLOR]
	dormant = yes
	remark = "de jure, after his father's execution in London"
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119518 }
	startdate = {
		day = 6
		month = february
		year = 1685
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 6
		month = september
		year = 1701
	}
	name = "James VII"
	DIP = [COLOR=Yellow]4[/COLOR]
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 6
	dormant = no
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119519 }
	startdate = {
		day = 6
		month = september
		year = 1701
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 1
		month = january
		year = 1766
	}
	name = "James VIII [COLOR=Lime]°[/COLOR]"
	DIP = [COLOR=Yellow]5[/COLOR]
	ADM = [COLOR=Yellow]4[/COLOR]
	MIL = [COLOR=Yellow]4[/COLOR]
	dormant = no
	remark = "The Old Pretender"
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119532 }
	startdate = {
		day = 6
		month = september
		year = 1701
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 1
		month = january
		year = 1766
	}
	name = "James VIII [COLOR=Lime]°[/COLOR]"
	DIP = [COLOR=Yellow]5[/COLOR]
	ADM = [COLOR=Yellow]4[/COLOR]
	MIL = [COLOR=Yellow]4[/COLOR]
	dormant = yes
	remark = "The Old Pretender, activated by SCO_276009 B or SCO_276009 B (Jacobite Rebellion in 1715 and in 1745)"
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119520 }
	startdate = {
		day = 1
		month = january
		year = 1766
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 1
		month = january
		year = 1788
	}
	name = "Charles III [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]"
	DIP = 3
	ADM = 3
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
	remark = "The Young Pretender"
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119521 }
	startdate = {
		day = 1
		month = january
		year = 1788
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 13
		month = july
		year = 1807
	}
	name = "Henry I [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]"
	DIP = [COLOR=Yellow]7[/COLOR]
	ADM = [COLOR=Yellow]5[/COLOR]
	MIL = [COLOR=Yellow]5[/COLOR]
	dormant = no
	remark = "Duke of York and Cardinal"
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119522 }
	startdate = {
		day = 13
		month = july
		year = 1807
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 10
		month = february
		year = 1834
	}
	name = "[COLOR=Yellow]Mary III[/COLOR] *"
	DIP = [COLOR=Yellow]4[/COLOR]
	ADM = 6
	MIL = [COLOR=Yellow]2[/COLOR]
	dormant = no
	remark = "If Henry had not become a Cardinal he might have had a [COLOR=Yellow]daughter[/COLOR]..."
}
NEW:
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119534 }
	startdate = {
		day = 13
		month = february
		year = 1689
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 28
		month = december
		year = 1694
	}
	name = "William & Mary"

	DIP = 8
	ADM = 8
	MIL = 8
	dormant = yes

}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119525 }
	startdate = {
		day = 28
		month = december
		year = 1694
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 19
		month = march
		year = 1702
	}
	name = "William II[COLOR=Red]I[/COLOR]"
	DIP = 6
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 7
	dormant = yes
	remark = "William as sole sovereign, after his wife's death"
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119527 }
	startdate = {
		day = 2 #needed for sleep/wake commands
		month = august
		year = 1714
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 11
		month = june
		year = 1727
	}
	name = "George I [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]"
	DIP = 6
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 8
	dormant = yes
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119528 }
	startdate = {
		day = 11
		month = june
		year = 1727
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 25
		month = october
		year = 1760
	}
	name = "George II [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]"
	DIP = 7
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 7
	dormant = yes
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119529 }
	startdate = {
		day = 25
		month = october
		year = 1760
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 29
		month = january
		year = 1820
	}
	name = "George III [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]"
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 7
	dormant = yes
}

NEW:

Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119535 }
	startdate = {
		day = 11
		month = december
		year = 1688
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 28
		month = december
		year = 1694
	}
	name = "Mary II"
	DIP = 6
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 5
	dormant = yes
	remark = "Should Mary II reign without her husband William, due to Parliament's refusal to crown him"
}
Code:
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0119536 }
	startdate = {
		day = 28
		month = december
		year = 1694
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 1
		month = august
		year = 1714
	}
	name = "Anne"
	DIP = 8
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 7
	dormant = yes
	remark = "Should Anne succeed to the throne earlier than usual, on the death of her elder sister, Mary II"
}

Scotland needs a few monarch events for changing monarchs - particularly ones triggered by events in England. Also, Charles II should never be King of Scots if SCO is a vassal of Cromwell's England. This is a situation I see in many games - Leslie should always be ruler of SCO if a vassal of ENG.

Oh, this needs editing:


Code:
#(1688) The Glorious Revolution and the Claim of Right
event = {
	id = 3082 #triggered by ENG_3031 or ENG_164048
	trigger = {
		event = 3081 #SCO: The Restoration of the Stuarts
		NOT = { vassal = { country = FRA country = SCO } }
	}
	random = no
	country = SCO
	name = "EVENTNAME3082" #The Glorious Revolution and the Claim of Right
	desc = "EVENTHIST3082"

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3082A" #Welcome the Orange Dynasty to the throne
		[COLOR=Lime]command = { type = wakemonarch which = 0119534 } #William & Mary[/COLOR]
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 0119525 } #William [COLOR=Yellow]II[/COLOR]
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 0119526 } #Anne
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 0119527 } #George I [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 0119528 } #George II [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 0119529 } #George III [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 0119518 } #James VII
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 0119519 } #James VIII [COLOR=Lime]°[/COLOR]
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 0119520 } #Charles III [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 0119521 } #Henry I [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 0119522 } #[COLOR=Yellow]Mary III *[/COLOR]
		command = { type = domestic which = SERFDOM value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = 2 }
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 60 value = 8 } #Jacobites
		command = { type = revolt which = 236 } #The Highlands
		command = { type = revolt which = 237 } #The Grampians
		command = { type = dynastic which = ENG }
		command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 200 }
		command = { type = relation which = HOL value = 150 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -50 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3082B" #Keep the old Stuart Dynasty as King in Scotland
		command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = 2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = SERFDOM value = 1 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 60 value = 4 } #Presbyterian Exiles
		command = { type = revolt which = 238 } #Lothian
		command = { type = revolt which = 239 } #Strathclyde
		command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -50 }
		command = { type = breakvassal which = ENG } #in case
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164049 } #ENG: The Deliverance of Scotland
	}
}
Code:
#(1688) The Glorious Revolution (in case Scotland is a French vassal)
event = {
	id = 276012 #triggered by ENG_3031 or ENG_164048
	trigger = {
		event = 3081 #SCO: The Restoration of the Stuarts
		vassal = { country = FRA country = SCO }
	}
	random = no
	country = SCO
	name = "EVENTNAME3082" #The Glorious Revolution and the Claim of Rights
	desc = "EVENTHIST3082"

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3082A" #[COLOR=Yellow]Mary II, our Protestant Queen[/COLOR]
		[COLOR=Lime]command = { type = wakemonarch which = 0119535 } #Mary II[/COLOR]
		[COLOR=Lime]command = { type = wakemonarch which = 0119536 } #Anne [/COLOR]
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 0119527 } #George I [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 0119528 } #George II [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 0119529 } #George III [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 0119518 } #James VII
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 0119519 } #James VIII [COLOR=Lime]°[/COLOR]
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 0119520 } #Charles III [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 0119521 } #Henry I [COLOR=Lime]*[/COLOR]
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 0119522 } #[COLOR=Yellow]Mary III *[/COLOR]
		command = { type = domestic which = SERFDOM value = -2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = 2 }
		command = { type = breakvassal which = FRA }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 60 value = 8 } #Jacobites
		command = { type = revolt which = 236 } #The Highlands
		command = { type = revolt which = 237 } #The Grampians
		command = { type = dynastic which = ENG }
		command = { type = relation which = ENG value = 200 }
		command = { type = relation which = HOL value = 150 }
		command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -30 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3082B" #Keep the old Stuart Dynasty as King in Scotland
		command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = 2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = SERFDOM value = 1 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 60 value = 4 } #Presbyterian Exiles
		command = { type = revolt which = 238 } #Lothian
		command = { type = revolt which = 239 } #Strathclyde
		command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -50 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 164049 } #ENG: The Deliverance of Scotland
	}
}
 
Last edited: