- Jul 1, 2007
Under the premise that my beloved Fatherland will be better of in the end if the Brits win the war.
The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.
Quick note: The Owen in RL 1940 is chambered in .32 ACP ammo, and hence inferior to the Sten in terms of hitting power. But of course you can say that it's chambered in 9x19mm Para in this AAR in 1940. The Owen MP was an Australian design and from what I have read vastly superior to the Sten in terms of ruggedness and penetration power. In TTL the Owen is adopted first by the SAS and will later filter through to the rest of the Army, eventually totally replacing the Sten. While I don't like top-mounted magazines as evidenced by the introduction of a belt-fed Bren in time for Market Garden, I felt that changing too much in that respect would be unrealistic, even though I could easily manipulate a picture of an Owen. Unaltered pic below and more info here..
I was using the site in your link for info already. I suppose you can tell from the stuff provided in the link that the Owen in OTL is not chambered in 9x19mm Para until 1941.gaiasabre11 Hrm. According to various sources on the net it was chambered for9x19 Parabellum in OTL. As for production issues, tHe slightly lower production speed is taken as a price for having a gun that can take more. The Sten, unlike OTL, was always seen as a stop gap until something better ( the Owen in this case ) could be adopted. I'll write an intermission on Infantry small arms soon.
British production lines are already being re-tooled for the Owen. Remember, this Britain is in a slightly better economical and a much better military positon, at least on the ground.I was using the site in your link for info already. I suppose you can tell from the stuff provided in the link that the Owen in OTL is not chambered in 9x19mm Para until 1941.
I also mentioned about the cost. The Sten I believed is cheaper than the Owen.
IMHO, even if the Sten is seen as a stop-gap, it should still be produced in higher quantities than the Owen until the war ends. This is most likely bc of its low cost and easy production, and of course the addition time and cost to set up production lines for the Owen.
Even if that's true, I'll still go for the Sterling MP instead of the Owen to replace the Sten sometime in 1943~1944.British production lines are already being re-tooled for the Owen. Remember, this Britain is in a slightly better economical and a much better military positon, at least on the ground.
Seriously though, I don't think folks in the MoD would want to use a "colonial" design compared to an indigenous design. I still see no probs in having the Sterling appearing in the war.The Stirling will probably replace the Owen sometime in the late 40s, but will not appear earlier.
You might have a point. But still, I am exercising authors perrogative here and will decide about it when the time comes.Seriously though, I don't think folks in the MoD would want to use a "colonial" design compared to an indigenous design. I still see no probs in having the Sterling appearing in the war.
that's just being unreasonable.You might have a point. But still, I am exercising authors perrogative here and will decide about it when the time comes.
Admittedly what has been said made me think about it all again. You will get to hear my desicion soon. Because that's what commenting is for, input on things that I didn't or couldn't consider due to lack of knowledge, or because I simply didn't think of them. All very much apprechiated.Damn your eyes tk, your forcing me to agree with a Frenchman. ( )
The Owen was never going to get anywhere, it's success in Australia was only due to it being a local design (the Aussies govt. of the time being very interested establishing a local defence manufacturing capability). It's heavy, bulky, hard to aim and owes it's success to politics rather than quality.
Frankly it's not good enough to justify the extra cost and time required to make it and it's definitely not the huge leap over the Sten that it would have to be to make the British Army buy colonial. If the Army has extra resources for guns, spend them on jumping straight to the higher quality MkV Sten; the extra tolerances and equipment make it more than 'good enough' to last the war.
However you appear committed to the idea, so I'll say no more.
Indeed. With the shooting they played into the hands of the Canadians without relizing it. Very soon though that will come back to bite them in the arse.Interesting news from Canada, it appears the Communistical types are once again letting ideology get in the way of practicality. They'd be better served by following the example of Lenin and making short term concessions to reality in place of rigged ideological purity, but then communists never are that bright (or they wouldn't be communists) so it's about par for the course.