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BaronNoir

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What would be an ''workable'' for composition for SU (that is cheap to keep ugpraded, I mean)

I was thinking of three divisions ''line force'' (3 INF + 1 AT) x 1, (3 INF + 1 ART) x 2 per provinces (or more if I can) with as many ''armoured'' divisions as I can to meet head-on german armor and/or punch holes in German lines (plus engineer and artillery formations for assaults)

1)What would be a good ''province holding'' force ?

2)Should I increase my IC ?

3)What would be a good for the current ''single model'' ARM based division that can work well against ennemy ARM and INF ?
 

marxianTJ

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If you're playing in 36' the way I tend to go for the SU is to build IC and IC only until ~ 38 (any IC that finishes in late 37' will be shifted to big things).

The reason I like building so much IC is because I like to build things for self-indulgence, like STRAT, air transports, paratroopers, and TAC bombers that are entirely unnecessary, but let me have fun. You'll want to have a big gross IC number to build lots of big projects at once - if your intention is for the heaviest IC thing you build to be medium tank divisions, you could probably dispense with building IC as soon as you can build MARM brigades. I shoot to have ~300 IC (post purge) before I begin large-scale military production.

Once you hit 38, throw your IC into big ticket items like planes and medium tanks and Marines (I build 5 divisions of them and use 2 for the Baltic fleet, 2 for the Black Sea Fleet, and 1 for mucking about in the Belorussian Swamps - because Germany will occasionally put troops in there and Marines will make short work of them). Then, once you reach later 39' I start putting out 3x1 arty and 3x1 AT brigades for standard purpose, with HARM (2 HARM tanks + 1 TD) and 4x Garrison divisions for each major city (roughly 9 divisions in total - you can retreat them as cities are lost and plop them in some other city EFFICIENCY! lol) and 1 div of MARM and LARM + Moto-rifle (with SPART/SPRA if possible) running until war starts. I like to tie my medium armor divs to equivalent light armor corps for exploitation.

I like to construct my ARM divisions in the following way: LARM 1 light tank, 2 moto-rifle (add SPART/SPAR as you get them later), for MARM's I build them as 2 medium tanks + 1 motorifle + SPART/SPRA, with a few who hold engineers for eventual river crossings, fort storming, and defensives of said crossed rivers and forts.

Then it's mostly up to how you want to defend. You can try to defend a static line somewhere - at which point you're going to want to mobilize early, pick a spot you like, and just stack all your stuff up there and make sure they never break through (use your medium armor to support spots in the line which are buckling). You can go Tukachevsky and defend indepth, where you put a line of troops in an ideal defensive position and put 2x divs in that territory, and then spread excess troops outwards towards your borders. As the germans attack, your weak 1 div will retreat after fighting a bit (preserve your manpower you're only doing this to cause their unit to incur command delay and burn supplies) - then once the unit occupies the territory all units behind it will simultaneously attack that division. If the fight isn't remotely winnable abort the attack immediately - if it's winnable fight them down so you break an Axis division, and cover the retreat of whatever division you're fighting. The main obstacle to this method of attack is that you MUST NOT allow your forces to retreat into the swamps in Belorussia or you will end up losing them (you need to decide ahead of time which will retreat south and which will retreat northwards). Once the Germans reach your main line of defense, you let them throw themselves at it, and array your tanks on any easily attackable province and SLAM them with tons of Armored attacks in that area - the AI will panic and after a few days will start resassigning troops to that region - so you pick another good spot, and SLAM it with tanks too, and eventually you'll start pushing the Germans back or at least severely hampering their attack progress. Just remember, DON'T let any of your forces go into the swamps in Belorussia, and try not to get anybody encircled - you'll need every division and, possibly, every oz. of man-power. If your tanks start taking damage withdraw them immediately - they're too valuable to let them get bogged down early on. If you end up engaging all of your armor in 41' and it gets stuck in some offensive you wont have the reserve capability to respond.

Other bonus stuff I like tossing around are Submarines (in the black sea, and Baltic sea fleets and even in the arctic ESPECIALLY if Germany takes Norway - because you can virtually blockade Norway and starve out any German divisions there - assuming you took/puppet Finland and research a few submarine engine upgrades (the 1940 tech).

You could also just build a giant fort line and stand behind that - but where is the fun in that?
 
Last edited:

BaronNoir

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But how you do it in 3 years ? As the SU, even while putting all I can afforcd on IC building, I only can put 6-7 units per years...and the switch to heavy industry actually reducced my industrial output....(I have to put 60ish in consumer)
 

21oliver

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We have been working on this a few of us. First off you need to get to war economy. From day 1 raise threat on Germany, and you put all your home spies into raising unity. By late Sept you will be able to get war economy. Next at the top of your production queue you want (courtesy of Charles Reeps ill add) 5 airbases (different locations) x 5 (build 5 airbases in each) & 3 Forts or ports x 3 (build 3 in each). Then load it up with IC after that and drop any ships or other items to the bottom. I queue up 39 IC to start (this will give you a base 200 IC). Now what you want to do is keep at the top of your tech queue (until they say 1940...) both Production techs and the mechanical engineering tech. Handle production manually. Put all your production into production or CG, nothing at all in upgrades, reinforcements or even supply. Sell resources and wait as your money builds up, nations will sell you all the supplies you need and more. What i do, and this only can be done on the first or second day of the game, is i prefer to sell fuel to all the major nations, and this is what i use to buy my supplies. After the first few days most nations will have enough fuel and wont buy any from you, then youll have to sell resources which you will want later on. What all these things do is improve your practicals and give you more IC to use. By Jan 1938 you should be around 205-215 base IC depending on how things work out. If you plan on pushing for 300 IC a few suggestions....Use the resource not supply minister, keep your resource techs up to date. Once you have bought enough supplies and have excess cash buy rares, metal and some energy off the USA to try and max out if possible your resources. eventually the trades will be broken or youll be running a deficit maybe but by then hopefully youll begin conquering nations. Once you take or puppet Finland you will get the strategic effect that will give you a 20% bonus to resources.

Thats it!

I just noticed your icon. The info i gave is for HOI3 TFH, if your using an earlier version you may have to adjust some parts of that, but the gist is still the same.
 

incedius420

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But how you do it in 3 years ? As the SU, even while putting all I can afforcd on IC building, I only can put 6-7 units per years...and the switch to heavy industry actually reducced my industrial output....(I have to put 60ish in consumer)

If you have the cash to play with you can switch laws for a single day. The production queue will adjust the build times as if you ran the whole build time with that law. So build a bunch of IC under consumer product for the max amount of IC to build with. Then on the day the run would be done under the better law, switch to it for a day. This trick works good at the start of the game with the first major run of IC.
 

BaronNoir

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Well, I prefer to not ''trick'' the engine to the point, but the advice on raising threat is well-heard. How many spies I should put to that task ?
 

21oliver

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You have to keep max spies in both the SU and Germany. I start the game investing about 4 LS in spies, i make sure i have a surplus about 10 spies at all time, when i get more then that i divert LS elsewhere. BTW the info i gave you above is without switching back and forth between laws. IF your playing TFH (which maybe you arent) you can get at least 205sh IC base by Jan 1 1938. If you have to make a choice i myself go Heavy Industry at Jan 1 1937 while producing nothing more then bases and IC, it seems to work better. Someone did the math i dont recall the results.
 

21oliver

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Forget the dates, do the numbers...

1. Raise threat (keep 10 spies) on Germany UNTIL you can fire War Economy, then stop or it might bring the Allies into better laws too early.
2. Build 5 sets of 5 airbases and 3 sets of 3 forts/ports (keep at the TOP of the production queue).
3. Decide how much IC you want, the norm for the SU appears to be a 200 or 250 base, i usually go 300. You start with 161, so you want to add either 39/89/139 IC to the production queue (add in blocks of say 50 to make it easy).

You should have (again based on TFH) have 200+ Base IC by Jan 1 1938.

You are the Soviet Union, you can take all of your units and put 100 divisions on the Western Front right at the start of the game. You dont need to build anything until 1939, Germany wont attack until at least summer of 41 perhaps later. I have put so many units on the front they dont attack at all.
 

21oliver

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It was recently stated in a thread that the current belief is that heavy industry is better when producing IC, but then switch over when producing units. So that being said the year doesnt matter it is what your producing. What version are you playing?
 

Charles Reeps

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I should not select heavy industry emphasis in 1938, correct ?

If you are not going for tricking the system it has been shown that Heavy Industry should not be used if you have less than 200 effective IC. Somewhere around 180-ish wouldn't hurt, though. Other than that Heavy Industry should be used only during war time where Consumer Goods will drop to low numbers.
 

BaronNoir

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I aiming for simplicity, going as this as force composition

Mobile force :
2 Shock Corps, which means 10 x (1 ART, 1 GUARDS, 2 INF)
2 Assault Corps, which means 10 x (1 ENG, 3 ENG)
2 Guard Corps, which means 10 x ( 2 ARM, 1 MOT, 1 SPART

Static force :
As many corps as possible made up of 2 X (1 AT, 3 INF), 1 X (1 ART, 3 INF) to cover the lines

A second ART, 3 INF and a LARM, 2 MOT, 1 SPART added as IC allow it.
 

Opanashc

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If you are not going for tricking the system it has been shown that Heavy Industry should not be used if you have less than 200 effective IC. Somewhere around 180-ish wouldn't hurt, though. Other than that Heavy Industry should be used only during war time where Consumer Goods will drop to low numbers.
You sure you are not mixing that with Mixed Industry?