again, hordes and....a strange pope

[Rexos]

I'll be short
Do you think that, as a horde it is better to reform the governament, I think so, keeping the unity high it's so hard, e it doesn't give that good things like monarch points.....even thou reforming takes a lot when you are Mongolia or oirat
What do you think? and how do you deal with the unity if you let that stay?

Now.....something really strange about the palal state, I know this is a game, and it can't be like the world was BUT....there should be some things that can never, and I say NEVER HAPPEN.....

just look at the allies of the pope
there Venice and Siena and Savoy and......

https://imgur.com/a/nlJOn

 

[Octavius Antony]

The only reason Mongolia should be changing governments is if you are ready to form Yuan for the achievement. Until then, conquer away and burn it all. The only way you'll get low unity is if you stop fighting.

As for the Papal States allying the Ottos, things happen you know? They don't have any intrinsic modifiers making it impossible which means that if they have high enough relations they may pick them up. Gameplay comes before realism.

 

[krieger11b]

As for the Papal States allying the Ottos, things happen you know? They don't have any intrinsic modifiers making it impossible which means that if they have high enough relations they may pick them up. Gameplay comes before realism.

Mutual enemies can make strange bedfellows. I mean before the sweeping Islamic gains in the Middle East the thought of a Catholic Pope asking their followers to fight a Crusade that would help Byzantium stay alive was unthinkable given their extremely bitter fight, in particular over Orthodox Byzantium trying to reconquer former Western Roman territories that were Catholic.

Yes I do know that Pope Urban did want to use it to expand the reach of the Catholic Church but it still helped keep Byzantium alive until the botched Fourth Crusade that helped seal it's doom.

 

[Rexos]

But razing reduce the development of the provinces....it's like hurting the future part of the horde itself

Gameplay comes before realism.

I read that before, and I agree, but......we're are not talking about Bohemia or France, how could the pope ally the biggest treat and religion enemy of the whole europe?
For the byzantium is different, they would help them as a side effect, not directly, and don't forget they were christian too.....

And Yes I do know that can happen, and it did before, nothing ever happens for the very first time, but.....I was confused the same

 

[Zenonira]

Horde economy sucks no matter what, since the Tribes will demand up to 50% of your stated development later on and will floor local autonomy at 50%. Getting money from tax and production is not what drives horde economy, trade (by conquering everyone who could steer it away from you) is how hordes make their cash. Razing gives you extra tech, ideas, and more power for coring so that you can reach the situation where you have uncontested trade.

Also, if you have the DLC for it, at a certain point, due to horde autonomy, debasing currency becomes a CRAZY powerful tool to make money as hordes.

 

[makaramus]

too much negative event
terrible economy
very dangerius heir praying
draining massive military power at truces

I hate playing giant horde :/
If its "Golden Horde" their ideas are good and helping them to be big horde ... but others :/
I mean for world conquest they are best but if you seek efficency no... reform when you feel you cant handle another event crisis

 

[3ishop]

I read that before, and I agree, but......we're are not talking about Bohemia or France, how could the pope ally the biggest treat and religion enemy of the whole europe?
For the byzantium is different, they would help them as a side effect, not directly, and don't forget they were christian too.....

If threatened by a regional force that could take them out...yes I can see them risking the East to stay around for today.

 

[Horn and Ivory]

If threatened by a regional force that could take them out...yes I can see them risking the East to stay around for today.

Also, the Ottomans and the Emperor are quite often at loggerheads, and the Pope and the Emperor do have a few small disagreements in their history.

 

[Rexos]

For the horde, I don't know what to say, I really like their ideas, but keep razing(lowering development) and fighting(even if you have no adm points, cause the king sucks) it's really difficult for me, then the stupid tribes gives really not that big things and they demand way too much lands, I only see the horde governament as "something to be removed" for a more efficient nation

for the pope and the ottomans, I can't really see that in my mind, it's more like a "I would die rather than ally those infildels" matter

 

[makaramus]

oh by the way if you convert to christian(or ... orthodox... not sure if all christiand I only confirmed 1) before reforming goverment instead of chinese or muslim(wich muslim 1 is worse one and I never recommend... ) your tech turns into eastern tech! wich means now you got access to cossacks(WICH IS FUNNY AS SHIT )

as ex-horde country now you got cossacks? count me in

 

[Rexos]

I got cossacks with byzantium, but I thought it was weird, this game is pretty

adaptable

 

[PhoenixG]

For the horde, I don't know what to say, I really like their ideas, but keep razing(lowering development) and fighting(even if you have no adm points, cause the king sucks) it's really difficult for me, then the stupid tribes gives really not that big things and they demand way too much lands, I only see the horde governament as "something to be removed" for a more efficient nation

for the pope and the ottomans, I can't really see that in my mind, it's more like a "I would die rather than ally those infildels" matter

Well Hordes aren't really famous for efficiency, it's about conquering and burning.. Playing as a horde is really a different playstyle than your normal country.

 

[Rexos]

I'll keep that in mind nex time.....but the rebels are the same for everyone

 

[Drachenfels]

Hordes are difficult, there should be a tooltip about it. You have two options, more efficient, keep horde and nuke everyone. Game will be a constant warfare, no truces ever, manpower always zero, money always short. Just relentless charge. Or reform asap and EU will change into classical gameplay. I personally think there should be other governments that gave same amount of novelty, frustration, tears and sweat. ;-)

 

[Dominion]

Horde isn't difficult, just different.
Debase like mad, raise banners, raze everything.

I recently asked in QQQA "How do you beat Ming? I formed Manchu and have already taken out 6 other nations in 1450." and the answer was "take them out as well".
So I declared, won a few battles, got a few stackwipes and took them out as well.

Can you imagine any other non-Horde nation doing the same?

I really don't like the style and still can't wrap my head around how it could possibly work, but it does and once you stop playing them like a normal nation and become a better Horde player than I am (~20 minutes of gametime should suffice. I suck as Horde) you will see how strong and easy they are.

There's a reason why Horde WCs are usually a century faster than normal WCs.

 

[PhoenixG]

Well that is the power of having the best units early game and that +20% shock damage on flat terrain. Normally this early it's more about who has the most morale, since damage wise it's really little. But hordes does do damage. That is also why horde vs horde the war is pretty much decided after the first battle.

 

[Dominion]

Not to mention the massively increased AT gains from stackwipes.

Who needs morale advisors when you get +25% morale for free?

 

[Rexos]

and playing as oirat for example, gives you 100% cavarly ratio, that means you could have armies made only of cavarly without getting any penalty, and besides the high expenses.....does it worth it?

 

[Dominion]

Ye. Stackwipes are crazy strong and the sole reasons why people love to play Horde.

Early to mid game fire pips pale in comparison to shock pips. Running full cav lets you wipe pretty much anything.

 

[Hessian Mercenary]

people need to show some love for tribes estate. 5 free cav plus 25% of your total manpower every 10 years, -20% cav cost and +20% manpower recovery speed when over 60 loyalty and influence and +33% manpower from estate owned provinces. Constant stackwipes means less combat losses, for sieges use merc infantry. With that overall setup you shouldn't have much manpower trouble as a horde. Combine that with razing where especially provinces like 2-2-2 pay for coring on their own it's quite easy to fuel the war machine and keep unity high. You can run the early game with debasing since hordes actually make money from that and gold mines are also highly useful, later you can conquer trade company areas and get rich from trade. Takes a while to get used to it (my first tries as Great Horde were a complete failure) but once you know what you're doing you'll never want to reform