After the End - Fan Fork

[Ziemonysl]

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Ancient order of the Hybernians Very important order, sorta the Knights of Columbus of Irish-American Catholics.

Lore
The lore surrounding the new popes and the founding of New Rome is (for now) minimal. It could be expanded. I'm happy to help.

Cool effort post, a couple of things.

The Knights of Columbus were founded by Irish-Americans, The Blessed Father Michael J. McGivney was an Irish-American.
I like the idea of Notre-Dame and think it's a small enough change that it wouldn't matter much. Same with the catholic merc company.

Holy sites have been a question of mine for a long time, what are the Catholic again;
Washington
St. Louis (Rome)
New York
Aurora in Colorado (That is a reference to Liebowitz, I think)
A Texas county.

I wish one could get shifted (preferably New York) to either New Haven in CT, to represent the Knights of Columbus, or down to Anne Arundel in Duchy of Maryland, to represent Ann Seton/St. Ignatius Chapel Point, the first Catholic Parish in the 13 Colonies.


Also, bring back indulgences!

Just my thoughts. Can't wait to play this mod with Holy Fury in a month.

 

[Truewhit]

Cool effort post, a couple of things.

The Knights of Columbus were founded by Irish-Americans, The Blessed Father Michael J. McGivney was an Irish-American.
I like the idea of Notre-Dame and think it's a small enough change that it wouldn't matter much. Same with the catholic merc company.

Holy sites have been a question of mine for a long time, what are the Catholic again;
Washington
St. Louis (Rome)
New York
Aurora in Colorado (That is a reference to Liebowitz, I think)
A Texas county.

I wish one could get shifted (preferably New York) to either New Haven in CT, to represent the Knights of Columbus, or down to Anne Arundel in Duchy of Maryland, to represent Ann Seton/St. Ignatius Chapel Point, the first Catholic Parish in the 13 Colonies.


Also, bring back indulgences!

Just my thoughts. Can't wait to play this mod with Holy Fury in a month.

I doubt it will be up to date in a while. The guy in charge has started his first year of university and is going through some big personal problems. I actually hope he takes a break from modding so he can take care of himself.

 

[The Great Dictator]

I personally believe that it would be better to flesh out the current religions, as opposed to adding new ones. Of course, I wouldn't complain either way; new content is new content!

For the old non fan-fork version of this mod I attempted to compile as many sub mods as possible for reference. Many of these sub mods were no longer compatible, and many were very simple in nature (adding an Aztec-esque "living god" mechanic for the Sol Invicta, Americanist patrons, new event chains, etc), but I have previously advocated for, and do believe it would be nice to get these sub mods updated and fully integrated with the permission of their respective authors.

At any rate, I've noticed a lot of talk about Revelationism here, and how it could use some more stuff. I can recall @Voltspark working on a sub mod for the Revelationists entitled "Council of the Righteous Assembly." I never got to enjoy the work myself, as it had become depreciated, but it seemed pretty rich in mechanics, if not ambitious; if I recall, it was to include a form of the college of cardinals for reformed Revelationists, with the five "cardinals" being given certain powers.

I hope I'm not getting ahead of myself here, but I know that 9Kbits and company have been very receptive to adapting other work in the past, and I think that this would make for a great fit if deemed appropriate by all parties.

 

[Dakilla TM]

Cool effort post, a couple of things.

The Knights of Columbus were founded by Irish-Americans, The Blessed Father Michael J. McGivney was an Irish-American.
I like the idea of Notre-Dame and think it's a small enough change that it wouldn't matter much. Same with the catholic merc company.

Holy sites have been a question of mine for a long time, what are the Catholic again;
Washington
St. Louis (Rome)
New York
Aurora in Colorado (That is a reference to Liebowitz, I think)
A Texas county.

I wish one could get shifted (preferably New York) to either New Haven in CT, to represent the Knights of Columbus, or down to Anne Arundel in Duchy of Maryland, to represent Ann Seton/St. Ignatius Chapel Point, the first Catholic Parish in the 13 Colonies.


Also, bring back indulgences!

Just my thoughts. Can't wait to play this mod with Holy Fury in a month.

One of the Catholic sites is Chicago, not New York. Although I think you can make a case for moving the Washington DC (only east coast site) site to NYC or New Haven, or even Boston? Catholicism is rare on the east coast.

The one in Texas is The Alamo in San Antonio. It was a former Spanish mission, and assuming it survived in tact in AtE, it could be treated as a holy site. I personally would've preferred it to be moved to New Orleans, but that's already an Ursuline (French Catholic) site.

 

[Coemgen]

Catholicism is rare on the East Coast? Boston, NYC, Philly and all the major cities are heavily catholic.

Honestly the holy cities are fine.

I think the quickest take away from my suggestion is to make Elkhart -> Notre Dame and maybe add a sight.


and maybe add some catholic merc or holy orders. I can also help writing and coding more Catholic and Papal events.

 

[Dakilla TM]

Catholicism is rare on the East Coast? Boston, NYC, Philly and all the major cities are heavily catholic.

Honestly the holy cities are fine.

I think the quickest take away from my suggestion is to make Elkhart -> Notre Dame and maybe add a sight.


and maybe add some catholic merc or holy orders. I can also help writing and coding more Catholic and Papal events.

I meant Catholic (not Ursuline) provinces or starting playable characters are rare in game on the east coast. I wasn't referring to real life.

 

[BeyondExpectation]

How moddable is pagan attrition? I ask because of the possibility that if it were added to Appalachian culture, they could be made tribal for realism purposes.

 

[Dakilla TM]

How moddable is pagan attrition? I ask because of the possibility that if it were added to Appalachian culture, they could be made tribal for realism purposes.

You can mod attrition for religions I think. But making Appalachia tribal would make them even weaker. I've said in an earlier post about how the Appalachian region is poor, and most characters are unreformed pagans or heretics. It's best to leave the place as is since that area is already weak. Currently the HCC can easily trample into Kentucky and Tennessee if it wanted to.

 

[mattrhearn]

And the aspects of Appalachian culture that cause people from more urban environments to think of them as backwoods and primitive are closer to Feudalism than Tribalism anyway. The focus on a dynasty's connection to the land it inhabits is something you see communicated and romanticized in most media about the region, with the exception of those Clampetts that loaded up their truck and moved to Beverly at the first economic opportunity.

 

[modernwhofan]

How moddable is pagan attrition? I ask because of the possibility that if it were added to Appalachian culture, they could be made tribal for realism purposes.

We really don't need any more tribals. I made a post earlier about how this map compares with Vanilla in 1066, and essentially it's already quite tribal heavy. That, and the earlier arguments about Appalachia having a hard enough time as feudal states.

 

[Ceslas]

Just trying something. I've decided to make all the kingdoms that start with Gavelkind have primogeniture. I wonder how the game will change when played with them?

 

[Truewhit]

We really don't need any more tribals. I made a post earlier about how this map compares with Vanilla in 1066, and essentially it's already quite tribal heavy. That, and the earlier arguments about Appalachia having a hard enough time as feudal states.

I think that makeing the argument comparing the amount of tribals compared to vanilla is kind of silly. Yeah I think there is enough tribals in eastern America but no tribals in Central America or the Caribbean? I also think the Great Plains still chould use a few more nomads.

 

[modernwhofan]

I think that makeing the argument comparing the amount of tribals compared to vanilla is kind of silly. Yeah I think there is enough tribals in eastern America but no tribals in Central America or the Caribbean? I also think the Great Plains still chould use a few more nomads.

I'm curious as to why you think it's silly. Vanilla is pretty well balanced in my opinion, and saying there aren't any tribals in Central America or the Caribbean is kind of like saying their aren't any tribals in Anatolia or India. (Again, just my opinion.)
Completely agree with the nomads, though.

 

[BeyondExpectation]

We really don't need any more tribals. I made a post earlier about how this map compares with Vanilla in 1066, and essentially it's already quite tribal heavy. That, and the earlier arguments about Appalachia having a hard enough time as feudal states.

Is there some particular gameplay advantage that the proportion of tribals in 1066 brings, presumably making earlier start dates less fun?

The fact that Appalachia has a hard time is why I brought it up; the culture could, for instance, be given pagan attrition, and not changed to tribal.

 

[modernwhofan]

Is there some particular gameplay advantage that the proportion of tribals in 1066 brings, presumably making earlier start dates less fun?

The fact that Appalachia has a hard time is why I brought it up; the culture could, for instance, be given pagan attrition, and not changed to tribal.

Ah, I see. You're original post said "could be made tribal for realism purposes", so I got confused around that. And no, I'm not saying that 1066 is more or less fun for tribal- or any- start, I just used that since that's the time-frame the mod is in (2666-3053 to vanilla's 1066-1453).

 

[BeyondExpectation]

Ah, I see. You're original post said "could be made tribal for realism purposes", so I got confused around that. And no, I'm not saying that 1066 is more or less fun for tribal- or any- start, I just used that since that's the time-frame the mod is in (2666-3053 to vanilla's 1066-1453).

Why does the proportion of tribes in the mod need to match that of vanilla with the same length of play time? Why does that matter?

 

[mattrhearn]

Some people are convinced that the proportions of everything in Vanilla are "right where they should be" because the Dev team gets paid to do their job so they must be better than any mods. And while obviously the dev team has better resources and training than most mod teams, the argument still falls apart once you consider just how often Vanilla changes all of those proportions.

 

[Dryhad]

Some people are convinced that the proportions of everything in Vanilla are "right where they should be" because the Dev team gets paid to do their job so they must be better than any mods. And while obviously the dev team has better resources and training than most mod teams, the argument still falls apart once you consider just how often Vanilla changes all of those proportions.

What you're missing is the vanilla ratios are only being brought up in response to claims that this mod doesn't have enough tribal starts. It is not an ex nihilo assertion that the mod ought to conform to what vanilla is doing, it is a response to what is essentially an ex nihilo assertion that the mod oughtn't. So, considering this, are you really arguing that this argument "falls apart" to the extent that it is a worse justification than absolutely no justification at all?

EDIT: On reflection, the original version of this post was overly harsh. The fact that we're even talking about tribal concentration now is basically a misunderstanding. So I shouldn't start that argument again and we should understand that we on the dev team are happy with the government map broadly speaking.

 

[BeyondExpectation]

What you're missing is the vanilla ratios are only being brought up in response to claims that this mod doesn't have enough tribal starts. It is not an ex nihilo assertion that the mod ought to conform to what vanilla is doing, it is a response to what is essentially an ex nihilo assertion that the mod oughtn't. So, considering this, are you really arguing that this argument "falls apart" to the extent that it is a worse justification than absolutely no justification at all?

EDIT: On reflection, the original version of this post was overly harsh. The fact that we're even talking about tribal concentration now is basically a misunderstanding. So I shouldn't start that argument again and we should understand that we on the dev team are happy with the government map broadly speaking.

I would like Appalachia to be tribal, but only if it's plausibility balanced. Whether or not it's tribal, I think they would be improved by getting pagan attrition, which I still have no idea about the possibility of.

 

[Dryhad]

I would like Appalachia to be tribal, but only if it's plausibility balanced. Whether or not it's tribal, I think they would be improved by getting pagan attrition, which I still have no idea about the possibility of.

Even if it is possible to attach such a thing to a culture (and I expect it isn't) I don't think we're likely to do that. Partially because, if you give Appalachian some special mechanic, what about all the other cultures? We'd probably need to think up something for every culture on the map in order to prevent Appalachian from just being the "best" culture due to being the only one with a unique mechanic.

Revelationist pagans already have defensive attrition, so the region already has this anyway in many places.