The JW connection I assume would be primarily to their habit (most famously in their earlier years as a denomination) of predicting dates for the end of the world. I can see the logic there but tbh I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to draw on people predicting the end for a religion centered on the idea that it's already happened.
After the End - Fan Fork
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I love the mod, been playing it since it started, and now the Fan Fork seems to be doing an amazing job. I also love the implementetion of new melting pot cultures for Yankees in the South, definately something unexpected, I freaked out when I saw that they became a melting-pot culture, and it also happened in an MP game so I just started yelling at my friends xD. I would most definately love to see more melting pot cultures because I am a bit of a freak when it comes to having new, unseen cultures show up and potentialy survive. I enjoy playing smaller cultures and trying to spread them. Anyway, once more, great job on the fanfork, I can't thank you enough, this is one of those mods that keeps me playing Crusader Kings after 5000+ hours. Is there a Discord server for this mod? I'd really like to stay up to date with what is happening, maybe even add a few suggestions if suggestions are welcome.
Have you tried my portrait mod? Whould love to get a groups input.
I think it would be very interesting to see Jehovah's Witnesses implemented into the world of After the End, as a religion in their own right and not as some heresy for an existing christian religion, and to see how they'd go about interacting with the other characters in the world, but I think it would be very difficult to make them actually workable.
For one, they wouldn't be able to have a religious head, i think, since they are not under the oversight of any singular human person, but view Jesus Christ himself as the leader of their faith under his (Jesus) father, Jehovah the Universal Creator. I guess if they were to have a head of the religion, it'd have to be something like how it is right now. The Watchtower and Bible Tract Society, which is the legal cooperate entity that Jehovah's Witnesses operate under is run by a council of responsible older men who regularly change position as Chairman of the society yearly, known as the Governing Body and are supposedly the 'Faithful and Discreet slave' Jesus talked about. These guys are responsible for a lot of the needs of all JWs worldwide and of resolving of matters both spiritual and practical in the organization.
Secondly, I'm not sure if unique flavor text could be made about them. The Anabaptist are already fairly similar in a few ways in terms of flavor text. Don't take up arms (though they are allowed to defend themselves if attacked) refuse to hold political offices. Stuff like that. I would worry that it may seem somewhat copy and pastey
Thirdly, Holy sites. Jehovah's witnesses don't really consider any particular place holy, not like how Rome is to Catholics or Mecca and Medina are to Muslims. Or how Jerusalem is. Witnesses do not venerate holy sites. An example of this is Brooklyn, which is where the World headquarters for JWs used to be located. Despite being used as the Headquarters for close to a Hundred years, they recently sold all their property there and moved to Warwick, where they had built a new headquarters. So clearly specific places are not regarded as being overly important for their worship (They do seem to do their best to respect other faith's holy sites though i think). If any were to be put in though, I suppose that Warwick would be one, and probably places where their branch offices are located like the one specifically for the United States, in Canada at Georgetown or other appropriate sites.
Fourthly, mechanics. How the mechanics of such a religion would work is difficult to think about really. Since they are all about living in harmony with what the bible teaches, I suppose the mechanics that allow you to lose bad traits like the sin traits or just poor traits like deceitful or arbitrary and gain good traits like Just, Patient and such would be there. Since they are all about literacy and fighting illiteracy and translating all their stuff into other languages so that all can read in their own mother tongue, I think they'd get a bonus to learning. Most JWs are also really efficient and careful with money, so perhaps a bonus to administration skills? I don't know. And as mentioned before, they are not a violent people, so aggressive wars would be a no. Giiven their history and rather somewhat fame given their Door to door ministry worldwide, they'd probably get bonuses to the proselytizing action. I do not know if they could have a heresy, since from I understand, the Witnesses are of the mind that you are either part of the congregation or not. They do suffer from apostates, people who are often expelled from the congregation (often due to them being disruptive and refusing to abide to the standards set in the bible) who become hostile and try to take as many people with them and tell exaggerated lies and falsehoods about the Witnesses, so maybe they'd be the heresy? And as in real life, the Witnesses are not liked by the majority of other religions, so perhaps, just to add some toughness, they suffer from diplomatic penalties from characters of other faiths in game?
Lastly, location. I honestly can only see them as being like the Jews ingame. JWs are minorites most if not all countries they are in. So, like the jews, probably have small scattering of provinces here and there all over from south america to the northern lands. Perhaps some are vassals while others are independent.
Just an Idea and my thoughts on it
I apologize for this wall of text
For one, they wouldn't be able to have a religious head, i think, since they are not under the oversight of any singular human person, but view Jesus Christ himself as the leader of their faith under his (Jesus) father, Jehovah the Universal Creator. I guess if they were to have a head of the religion, it'd have to be something like how it is right now. The Watchtower and Bible Tract Society, which is the legal cooperate entity that Jehovah's Witnesses operate under is run by a council of responsible older men who regularly change position as Chairman of the society yearly, known as the Governing Body and are supposedly the 'Faithful and Discreet slave' Jesus talked about. These guys are responsible for a lot of the needs of all JWs worldwide and of resolving of matters both spiritual and practical in the organization.
Secondly, I'm not sure if unique flavor text could be made about them. The Anabaptist are already fairly similar in a few ways in terms of flavor text. Don't take up arms (though they are allowed to defend themselves if attacked) refuse to hold political offices. Stuff like that. I would worry that it may seem somewhat copy and pastey
Thirdly, Holy sites. Jehovah's witnesses don't really consider any particular place holy, not like how Rome is to Catholics or Mecca and Medina are to Muslims. Or how Jerusalem is. Witnesses do not venerate holy sites. An example of this is Brooklyn, which is where the World headquarters for JWs used to be located. Despite being used as the Headquarters for close to a Hundred years, they recently sold all their property there and moved to Warwick, where they had built a new headquarters. So clearly specific places are not regarded as being overly important for their worship (They do seem to do their best to respect other faith's holy sites though i think). If any were to be put in though, I suppose that Warwick would be one, and probably places where their branch offices are located like the one specifically for the United States, in Canada at Georgetown or other appropriate sites.
Fourthly, mechanics. How the mechanics of such a religion would work is difficult to think about really. Since they are all about living in harmony with what the bible teaches, I suppose the mechanics that allow you to lose bad traits like the sin traits or just poor traits like deceitful or arbitrary and gain good traits like Just, Patient and such would be there. Since they are all about literacy and fighting illiteracy and translating all their stuff into other languages so that all can read in their own mother tongue, I think they'd get a bonus to learning. Most JWs are also really efficient and careful with money, so perhaps a bonus to administration skills? I don't know. And as mentioned before, they are not a violent people, so aggressive wars would be a no. Giiven their history and rather somewhat fame given their Door to door ministry worldwide, they'd probably get bonuses to the proselytizing action. I do not know if they could have a heresy, since from I understand, the Witnesses are of the mind that you are either part of the congregation or not. They do suffer from apostates, people who are often expelled from the congregation (often due to them being disruptive and refusing to abide to the standards set in the bible) who become hostile and try to take as many people with them and tell exaggerated lies and falsehoods about the Witnesses, so maybe they'd be the heresy? And as in real life, the Witnesses are not liked by the majority of other religions, so perhaps, just to add some toughness, they suffer from diplomatic penalties from characters of other faiths in game?
Lastly, location. I honestly can only see them as being like the Jews ingame. JWs are minorites most if not all countries they are in. So, like the jews, probably have small scattering of provinces here and there all over from south america to the northern lands. Perhaps some are vassals while others are independent.
Just an Idea and my thoughts on it
I apologize for this wall of text
Also, please fix the Canadian prairies so Edmonton does not get runover by its neighbors with the first 10 years of play. Prarielanders deserve a chance of making Praireland!
Dear devs,
When I disabled the courtier diveristy events (in that random ethnicities pop in when they sometimes shouldn't), it prevented some cultures from taking decisions without crashing. Could you include an option in the start menu to have courtier diversity turned on or off in the future?
When I disabled the courtier diveristy events (in that random ethnicities pop in when they sometimes shouldn't), it prevented some cultures from taking decisions without crashing. Could you include an option in the start menu to have courtier diversity turned on or off in the future?
You could script in a war at the game start with both sides having an equal amount of troops (scripted or not), so that either side could win.
I am using all the face mods that are reccomended in the After The End Fanfork collection, except I think for Mongol faces. If you tell me which portrait mod was created by you I'd love to give it a try ofcourse.
I think a good way to make them not a copy-paste of Anabaptists is to just disable holy wars for them. They can still do forced vassalization and border dispute, giving them some ways to fight offensively without holy wars or crusades.
To for their focus on literacy, give them a +2 or +3 bonus to learning. This can make them stronger by accessing higher tech faster.
By game rules, you have to have holy sites, so those will have to be there for the sake of gameplay. I'm not familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses so I don't know where to put these, but I would definitely put at 3 holy sites within one geographical region so that one realm can control them directly, while the other 2 can be a bit further away.
I also wouldn't give them a religious head, and to make sure they're not weakened by this, there shouldn't be any JW heresies. This way they can be strong on their own, like Anabaptists and Falling Star.
For some unique mechanics, they can gain piety every month they're at peace, like Anabaptists. I would also give them an event related to their door to door missionary work. This event would work similarly to a pilgrimage event. This won't target a specific land area, it'll just be "you traveled to a new land and began knocking on doors". Based on your stats, you will have different options on making sure your missionary work is successful. Being zealous, gregarious, and patient, along with having high diplomacy and high learning will definitely help you. You will gain a new trait and piety bonuses and diplomacy boosts if successful. If not, you will lose piety.
My early portrait mod has Those events disabled so it's easy to see my edited portraits. You can download and just keep the event folder.
I will make sure to give them a try with my friends next time we play, thank you for reccomending, I'm always ready to try out new mods!
I think there are plenty of religions in ATE for Christian-esque or Christian-inspired groups. We already have.
Anglican
Ursuline
Catholic
Evangelical
Revalationist
Mormon
Sagrado Corazon
Falling Star
Anabaptist
And the new update will include Brazilian Catholicism.
Don't need anymore, although sure Revalationists might need some new events. I never play anything other than Catholic though.
Anglican
Ursuline
Catholic
Evangelical
Revalationist
Mormon
Sagrado Corazon
Falling Star
Anabaptist
And the new update will include Brazilian Catholicism.
Don't need anymore, although sure Revalationists might need some new events. I never play anything other than Catholic though.
Do you think there should be enclaves of falling star in mexico and in south america? Will help with those areas being too stable.
The list there is missing the other Cult of Saints religion, Gracia Divina, even, so definitely plenty of Christian/Christian-derived faiths.
I've just tried out your mod, it looks very good, I like the portaraits being changed in the South, but I have to say that I would like the Mormon portraits to also changed to Norman or Deutsch.
1
Thank you! Wait the mormons are supposed to be using my "cowboy" portraits. Are they looking default? Or do you just want them to look like vanilla dlc germans?
It's weird, I can see a bishopric being ruled by Utahn culture that looks Norman/Deutsch, but that is the only Mormon that looks like that I think because the starting caracther died, the rest all look like the basic vanilla caracthers. I think it might have to do with the fact that you may have not changed the starting caracthers, but all new caracthers that are invited to the court or inherit cities and bishoprics might look Norman/Deutsch. I honestly can't be sure, they are different portraits.
Are they wearing Cowboy clothes or is their entire appearance not mormon? chould you post a screenshot? And thanks again.
Adding apocalyptic flavor to Catholicism
Catholicism has a unique position in AtE: it is the only religion that comes straight from CK2 vanilla (together with Norse) and at the same time it is one of the major religions (the largest at the beginning of the game, and it often expands). I really like how this was done up till now, particularly because a strong Catholic Church makes a lot of RP sense, since it is a centralized religion and it would be able to withstand (at least better than other religions) an apocalyptic event. Additionally, I am a huge fan of "A Canticle for Leibowitz" which has provided quite a bit of material for AtE. In particular, to my knowledge, "A Canticle for Leibowitz" is the first example in literature/media of a post-apocalyptic feudal USA. (I highly suggest everyone to read it). With the exception of the lack of St. Albert's Abbey, most of the Catholic Church from Leibowitz seems to match quite well in AtE. Yet, for the most part it is simply vanilla Catholicism.
My point is: the Catholic Church work perfectly in the game, but for the most part it seems very much like vanilla; I think that it is missing some of the lore and flavor that makes AtE such a great mod. To be clear, I am not proposing major changes to Catholicism, just minor touches to make it unique to AtE.
Holy Orders
I saw that in mod files there are two Holy Orders for Catholics: Knights of Columbus and Knights of Peter Claver. I definitely think that these two are great, but I'd make them available and then maybe add some more, since there are so many Catholic kingdoms and countries in the game.
A few ideas:
Fighting Irish: Classic mercenary/HO takes from a sport team. IN this case from a Catholic University (could be others as well)
Ancient order of the Hybernians Very important order, sorta the Knights of Columbus of Irish-American Catholics.
Order of Ann Seton: First Catholic USA saint. Shrine is in NYC.
Or others
order of the Hibernian seal
Notre Dame (this is such a quick fix in just one line of code, but I think would add a lot to the lore)
Few institutions are more associated with American Catholicism that the University of Notre Dame. On one side it's the premier catholic university, and on the other side the Fighting Irish have been the football banner of Catholicism for American Catholics in the 20th century. Given its current premier status, it would be likely that it would remain a major part of the post-apocalyptic Church, especially since other main Catholic universities such as Georgetown, Boston College, Villanova, etc... are all on the East Coast, which is not Catholic in AtE.
Hence, Notre Dame could make an excellent source of Catholic material and Easter eggs.
Just as many Mercenaries are football teams, it would make sense that a Catholic mercenary, or even better a Holy Order, would be representated by the Fighting Irish (or some similar post-apocalyptic name such as Fighting Catholics or Leprechauns)
Now, most likely universities would disappear as we know them in the AtE world, but these institutions may remain to some extend. Notre DAme (or others) might simply become Catholic settlements, bishoprics, abbeys, or the headquarters of a Holy Order (as above). Notre Dame is situated in what is currently the Duchy of Michiana, County of Southold. The bishopric is currently Elkhart, but changing it to Notre Dame would make sense since Elkheart has no particular religious importance. It is Rostmann, and Rust Cultist (although its at the border with Catholicism in Chicago, so it wouldn't be a stretch to make it Catholic). It oculd also be featured in events tied with religion or technology, given its stature as university and library.
Both the seal and the Leprechaun would make great Coat of Arms, either for the duchy, county bishopric, or Holy Order.
A very quick one to be implemented which I feel makes much sense is to change the bishopric of Southold from Elkhart to Notre Dame. Even rust cultists would instate their religion here
rather than here
Elkhart
I particular, Rust Cultists would appreciate the stadium, a huge massive construction with a heart of steel.
Modeed the FIghting Irish merc/HO and this is what it would look like
Here is the image I used for the CoA. I couldn't upload the right format, so here it's just in JPEG.
Cardinals
The cardinal mechanism works perfectly, we could consider adding the new cardinal robes that have popped out in some mods.
Links: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=242601880
I have wrote about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/CrusaderKings/comments/4a1917/now_thats_what_i_call_a_conclave_my_modest/
I also created a mod for myself with only the cardinal robes and no other BLG stuff, if you are interested.
This is from the mod BLG
Also, I have clothing specific for monks and nuns (different from Ursulines)
Traits
We could consider adding traits, or making those that exist more flavorful. Different religious ranks, orders, and other stuff specific to the American Church. A "Catholic Monarch" trait could exist, or "Defender of the Faith".
Event
More papal events. I will brainstorm ideas in the future. Some could involve relics, relationships between Catholic Monarchs, etc...
Easter-eggs
- Maybe adding the Abbey of St. Albert from the Leibowitz books. It's close to Denver.
The lore surrounding the new popes and the founding of New Rome is (for now) minimal. It could be expanded. I'm happy to help.
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Also, when meeting in St Louis, the Cardinals dresses in red would definitely go as “St Louis Cardinals” instead o f “College of Cardinals”
Cute Easter egg
Cute Easter egg