After the End - A post-apocalyptic America mod

[Parha]

Er... what? That IS the church's current policy.

The current policy is NO polygamy. I know some Mormon missionaries, so I could talk to them about this just to clear it up if you guys have anymore questions. Also Orinsul, you are correct in that the Book of Mormon and current Church policy differ on some matters, like pretty much every other organized religion . Also, the current religions in the mod that allow polygamy are just those in the Latter Day Saint religion group. My source is the religion files in case anyone is wondering, I'm using the latest Github version.

EDIT: Could a dev of the mod answer my questions about plans of adding in Mormon Missions o fixing the Libertarian holy sites? Thanks

 

[SteelyGlint]

Sorry to bother again, but it just keeps crashing.

Did the old version of the game for 2.2.1 and then updated the game to 3.2.3 and tried to the 0.4 version. Both times it crashes as soon as I press single player. Any help would be appreciated.

I would recommend trying the current GitHub version, which will work with the current version of CK2. Make sure you're installing the mod in the right location.

As for the Mormon discussion: After the End Mormons are not modern Mormons. 600 years is a long time for things to change, especially in the tumult of the apocalypse. We see mechanical diversity among faiths to be a good thing, and while Of has made it clear that he wants to avoid gratuitously offensive concepts (like incest) I don't think polygamy is out of place among other CK2 or AtE mechanics.

We will be fleshing out Mormon mechanics at some point. There will probably be some events involving tithing or missionaries.

 

[Parha]

As for the Mormon discussion: After the End Mormons are not modern Mormons. 600 years is a long time for things to change, especially in the tumult of the apocalypse. We see mechanical diversity among faiths to be a good thing, and while Of has made it clear that he wants to avoid gratuitously offensive concepts (like incest) I don't think polygamy is out of place among other CK2 or AtE mechanics.

We will be fleshing out Mormon mechanics at some point. There will probably be some events involving tithing or missionaries.

This sounds fine. As for the missionaries thing, do you think that it could be way to kinda disqualify dynasty members from succession? By making them permanent wandering missionaries instead of just sending them on a two year (I think that is the number) missions? That doesn't happen in modern days so far as I know, but then again like you said "600 years is a long time for things to change". Also for Tithing, the church is bound to get tons lf money from that in game same as IRL, so there should be events for building temples or churches in different counties and this is where funding for missions.

 

[Voltspark]

This sounds fine. As for the missionaries thing, do you think that it could be way to kinda disqualify dynasty members from succession? By making them permanent wandering missionaries instead of just sending them on a two year (I think that is the number) missions? That doesn't happen in modern days so far as I know, but then again like you said "600 years is a long time for things to change". Also for Tithing, the church is bound to get tons lf money from that in game same as IRL, so there should be events for building temples or churches in different counties and this is where funding for missions.

I can confirm the two year thing. I have a friend who is currently serving a mission for the LDS.

 

[Santander]

As for the Mormon discussion: After the End Mormons are not modern Mormons. 600 years is a long time for things to change, especially in the tumult of the apocalypse. We see mechanical diversity among faiths to be a good thing, and while Of has made it clear that he wants to avoid gratuitously offensive concepts (like incest) I don't think polygamy is out of place among other CK2 or AtE mechanics.

We will be fleshing out Mormon mechanics at some point. There will probably be some events involving tithing or missionaries.

Are Catholics changed fundamentally like that? Currently, the only differences I've heard of are the location of the Pope and the Knights of Columbus.

 

[Parha]

I can confirm the two year thing. I have a friend who is currently serving a mission for the LDS.

Thanks for sharing that. One last thing, I had this idea where if maybe all Mormons are controlled by someone of the Christian religious group and Mormon MA was low, the religion could be reabsorbed into the Christian group. I know I thought of a way to do this about a year ago, so if anyone's interested, I can try and find my coding for that idea.

 

[Santander]

Thanks for sharing that. One last thing, I had this idea where if maybe all Mormons are controlled by someone of the Christian religious group and Mormon MA was low, the religion could be reabsorbed into the Christian group. I know I thought of a way to do this about a year ago, so if anyone's interested, I can try and find my coding for that idea.

It's not the Mormon faith that decided Mormonism's place. Mormons are Christians. It's in the name of the church, for crying out loud. Rather, if it's at all possible, it really should be the other way 'round, with Mormonism having the chance to abandon its artificially created religion group and be accepted back into the Christian group.

 

[SteelyGlint]

Are Catholics changed fundamentally like that? Currently, the only differences I've heard of are the location of the Pope and the Knights of Columbus.

Mechanically, AtE Catholics are very similar to vanilla CK2 Catholics. That makes them quite a bit different from modern Catholics, in the sense that modern Catholics don't call Crusades or do certain other medieval things.

 

[SteelyGlint]

Thanks for sharing that. One last thing, I had this idea where if maybe all Mormons are controlled by someone of the Christian religious group and Mormon MA was low, the religion could be reabsorbed into the Christian group. I know I thought of a way to do this about a year ago, so if anyone's interested, I can try and find my coding for that idea.

We do have mechanics that can mend the schism between the High Church (essentially Canadian Anglican) and the Ursulines. After 600 years, Mormonism might be a bit too different to do the same.

 

[EmperorG]

We do have mechanics that can mend the schism between the High Church (essentially Canadian Anglican) and the Ursulines. After 600 years, Mormonism might be a bit too different to do the same.

But aren't Ursulines french catholics? I would have thought you could mend the schism between Ursulines and mainline Catholics. Though I suppose it works if you're going for the idea of reuniting all of the canadian peoples under one faith.

 

[Cruxador]

It's not the Mormon faith that decided Mormonism's place. Mormons are Christians. It's in the name of the church, for crying out loud. Rather, if it's at all possible, it really should be the other way 'round, with Mormonism having the chance to abandon its artificially created religion group and be accepted back into the Christian group.

Mormons are Christians, according to Mormons. Theologically speaking, Mormons have an additional prophet and an additional holy book, making them about as Christian as Muslims.

And I don't think religions changing groups really makes sense; the group references a comprehensive belief system which is foundational to the religion.

 

[Parha]

Rather, if it's at all possible, it really should be the other way 'round, with Mormonism having the chance to abandon its artificially created religion group and be accepted back into the Christian group.

Sorry, that is what I meant.

Mormons are Christians, according to Mormons. Theologically speaking, Mormons have an additional prophet and an additional holy book, making them about as Christian as Muslims.

And I don't think religions changing groups really makes sense; the group references a comprehensive belief system which is foundational to the religion.

The reason they are Christian IRL is because they believe that Jesus is the Son of God. If they just thought he was a prophet, they would be much more similar to Islam, but they don't.

We do have mechanics that can mend the schism between the High Church (essentially Canadian Anglican) and the Ursulines. After 600 years, Mormonism might be a bit too different to do the same.

Basically, the system I thought of was have the religion that you want to switch in one group, and a duplicate one in the group you want it to switch to. Once the event that makes the switch happen occurs, have an event that changes everyone from the religion of the old group to the religion in the new group. I'm not sure if your system is easier, I will have to look at the coding. Also, you could hide the new religion in ruler designer same way reformed Pagans are hidden.

 

[Santander]

Mormons are Christians, according to Mormons. Theologically speaking, Mormons have an additional prophet and an additional holy book, making them about as Christian as Muslims.

Excuse me? To be a Christian is to be a follower of Jesus Christ, pure and simple. "Theologically speaking", both said additional prophet and said additional holy book testify of Jesus Christ. His name is in the name of the church (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints), for crying out loud! Find me a reputable, non-Evangelical, source that refers to Mormons as non-Christian.

Oh, and what faith do you belong to, anyway? Do you consider Catholics to be non-Christian too? Many people with that opinion do.

And I don't think religions changing groups really makes sense; the group references a comprehensive belief system which is foundational to the religion.

You're right, it doesn't make much sense. In fact, I'd say it makes about as much sense as putting Mormons in a separate religion group in the first place, especially using definition you provided.

 

[Parha]

Well Santander, you agree the Mormons are Christian. The reason I think that it should change groups to Christian is because it is Christian today, and it would still be majorly tied to Christendom in the post-Apoc world because the Book of Mormon heavily relies on the Bible in terms of source materials, mythology, etc. So what is your reasoning for them not switching groups?

 

[Santander]

But I do want them to switch groups.

 

[Parha]

But I do want them to switch groups.

I apologize in that case, I must have misread what you said :closedeyes:

 

[Jalathas]

Excuse me? To be a Christian is to be a follower of Jesus Christ, pure and simple. "Theologically speaking", both said additional prophet and said additional holy book testify of Jesus Christ. His name is in the name of the church (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints), for crying out loud! Find me a reputable, non-Evangelical, source that refers to Mormons as non-Christian.

Oh, and what faith do you belong to, anyway? Do you consider Catholics to be non-Christian too? Many people with that opinion do.

I think you're taking that as a personal insult, when I don't think it's really meant to be. He was just saying that mainstream Christian sects, including Catholicism, vary mostly in interpretation of the same core belief system. Mormonism, while certainly Christian by the most basic definition, has more significant differences from mainstream Christianity, which reach beyond simple interpretation. Personally the example I'd use is Judaism and Islam; while both are based on the same interpretation of events, and neither believes that Jesus is the Messiah, Islam believes in an additional prophet and an additional set of religious laws based on his words. Mormonism differs from mainstream Christianity in much the same way. So saying it's different from Christianity isn't entirely correct (because Christianity in essence just means belief in Jesus as the Messiah), it's aiming at something correct. There's just not a great way to articulate it, since there's no word I know of for "Christian, but without additional theological additions".

 

[Santander]

I think you're taking that as a personal insult, when I don't think it's really meant to be. He was just saying that mainstream Christian sects, including Catholicism, vary mostly in interpretation of the same core belief system. Mormonism, while certainly Christian by the most basic definition, has more significant differences from mainstream Christianity, which reach beyond simple interpretation. Personally the example I'd use is Judaism and Islam; while both are based on the same interpretation of events, and neither believes that Jesus is the Messiah, Islam believes in an additional prophet and an additional set of religious laws based on his words. Mormonism differs from mainstream Christianity in much the same way. So saying it's different from Christianity isn't entirely correct (because Christianity in essence just means belief in Jesus as the Messiah), it's aiming at something correct. There's just not a great way to articulate it, since there's no word I know of for "Christian, but without additional theological additions".

No, I'm not insulted, just incredulous. "Additional theological additions" appear in literally every different sect of every religion on the planet. That's what makes them, well, different sects. There is quite literally no such thing as "mainstream Christianity". What you call "the most basic definition" is, in fact, the only definition that is worth using. Mormonism is as different from Protestantism, Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism as they are from each other.

I apologize in that case, I must have misread what you said :closedeyes:

No need to apologize. It's an honest mistake. Could happen to anyone.

 

[Jalathas]

No, I'm not insulted, just incredulous. "Additional theological additions" appear in literally every different sect of every religion on the planet. That's what makes them, well, different sects. There is quite literally no such thing as "mainstream Christianity". What you call "the most basic definition" is, in fact, the only definition that is worth using. Mormonism is as different from Protestantism, Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism as they are from each other.

I'm not sure that's true, though. Protestantism, Orthodoxy, and Catholicism, whatever differences they may have, are based on the same set of texts. Belief in a further, more recent prophet is a large and important change to the religion. Like I said, that doesn't make it not Christian, but it does make it fundamentally different in certain ways from other Christian faiths, in a way that disagreement about church hierarchy and practices do not.

As to the phrase mainstream Christianity, that's not really debatable? It's a phrase used pretty commonly in the US. Google suggests "Nicene Christianity" could be an alternative applicable phrase, if you prefer.

 

[SDSkinner]

I'm not sure that's true, though. Protestantism, Orthodoxy, and Catholicism, whatever differences they may have, are based on the same set of texts. Belief in a further, more recent prophet is a large and important change to the religion. Like I said, that doesn't make it not Christian, but it does make it fundamentally different in certain ways from other Christian faiths, in a way that disagreement about church hierarchy and practices do not.

As to the phrase mainstream Christianity, that's not really debatable? It's a phrase used pretty commonly in the US. Google suggests "Nicene Christianity" could be an alternative applicable phrase, if you prefer.

Nitpick- that isn't entirely true. Deuterocanonicals are included in Orthodoxy and Catholicism, but not Protestantism. Other variances of Christianity accept or reject different lists of them.