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SacredDatura

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Has anyone had the problem of the github version crashing when resigning or loading savegames? If no one else has it I suspect I may have modded in some duplicate IDs.
When reloading save games after resigning (i.e. when save scumming) it's for me 50/50 as to whether it'll crash to desktop or not. The mod hasn't crashed on resigning for me though.
 

saint242

ia ia!
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Quick question, are the major rivers (Mississippi, St. Lawrence, Hudson, etc) coded as Rivers or as Sea zones? I mostly ask because I notice everyone (not just Norse pagans) can move their ships along the rivers; and because I would really like to seize the Erie Canal and the St. Lawrence and build big forts to prevent the Norse blobs that have grown up around the Great Lakes in my current game from coming downriver to raid Manhattan all the time.
 

SteelyGlint

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Quick question, are the major rivers (Mississippi, St. Lawrence, Hudson, etc) coded as Rivers or as Sea zones? I mostly ask because I notice everyone (not just Norse pagans) can move their ships along the rivers; and because I would really like to seize the Erie Canal and the St. Lawrence and build big forts to prevent the Norse blobs that have grown up around the Great Lakes in my current game from coming downriver to raid Manhattan all the time.
Right now, the St. Lawrence is considered a sea and not a river. Other major rivers are rivers as expected.

I would love to change the St. Lawrence to a regular river, but we currently can't because of certain engine limitations. Ocean distance/pathfinding calculations get messed up if there's a river connecting two navigable seas. This causes major issues, especially with republic trade posts. I totally feel your pain, since I played a large northeastern empire with its capital in Manhattan.

We've considered other options, but most of them have problems of their own. For example, if there was some way to deter or stop AI raiders from raiding the provinces of a certain ruler I would add a CB where you make an example of a raider and others are deterred for ~10 years. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any way to do this.
 

saint242

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Right now, the St. Lawrence is considered a sea and not a river. Other major rivers are rivers as expected.

I would love to change the St. Lawrence to a regular river, but we currently can't because of certain engine limitations. Ocean distance/pathfinding calculations get messed up if there's a river connecting two navigable seas. This causes major issues, especially with republic trade posts. I totally feel your pain, since I played a large northeastern empire with its capital in Manhattan.

We've considered other options, but most of them have problems of their own. For example, if there was some way to deter or stop AI raiders from raiding the provinces of a certain ruler I would add a CB where you make an example of a raider and others are deterred for ~10 years. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any way to do this.

Thanks for letting me know. At least I can block off the Hudson River/Erie Canal path.
 
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Julian_Delphiki

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So I got the typewriter recovery event as a Revelationist:
bgMguAKl.jpg

Is that supposed to happen?
 

NezzeOne

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What kind of plans do you have for California and the Pacific Northwest? Will we see any great states based out of LA or San Francisco?

Also, I am getting a strange, random CTD in the year 2757...Not really sure if anything can be associated with it.
 
Last edited:

brucepm

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The redcoat domion are arriving in boston, but never actually attacking anyone

This problem has cropped up for me, as well. The redcoat forces land as expected, but they are apparently at peace with my tribal minion friend in New England, and are quite content to sit around while all of their poncy British soldiers waste away in the horrible post-apocalyptic wasteland of Plymouth. This is unfortunate, as I was hoping for a few good fisticuffs, what what.
 

CrackdToothGrin

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Out of sheer curiousity - What are the Indiana holdings and names based off of? I'm about to drop a large post here, and I hope it is helpful. I've spent most of my life in Indiana, having lived almost three decades here, in locations all over the state. I hope this is helpful. I'm including provinces.txt change suggestions and a .psd with province alterations if you want to use them.

Your Indianapolis is centered on Noblesville (Going off of my interpretation of the White River on the map), with the bottom of the province maybe containing the northern portion of the Metro Indy area, like Carmel, Fishers, and Geist (which is where I live). The province you have called "Knobstone" (Named after the hiking trail on the Knobstone Escarpment?!) is what would contain the actual city of Indianapolis and its central areas - Downtown (aka "The Circle"), Speedway, Lawrence, Broadripple and Rocky Ripple, the East Side, the Far East Side, Beech Grove, Greenwood, and the outyling regions of Plainfield and Avon. Brownsburg would properly be in the "Indianapolis" province, but only barely.

The province of "Knobstone" also doesn't contain the Knobstone Trail/Escarpment it is named after, which would be just west of I-65 near the Ohio River, which means your "Hoosier" province would contain it in its central bottom portion near the present cities of Underwood, Memphis, and Henryville. In its place, it contains Bloomington and Martinsville, which only Martinsville is actually within the province boundaries, Bloomington instead being in the Vincennes province. The "Hoosier" province is probably fine named as-is, but most state residents call a large portion of that province "Kentuckiana" instead, due to how similar it is to the hilly portions of Kentucky and general perception of the populations' "hillbilly" type of culture. Generally, this means the southern portion of that province.

The province of "Vincennes" contains Loogootee, which has like 3,000 people, and not something like Washington or Sullivan. Granted, Knox county is the poorest and least-populated place in the state, but it is totally a giant coal-producing region, which would be a big deal in a collapsed world without gas extraction.

"Kenapocomoco," while containing Peru in the holdings slot, doesn't contain Peru on the map, which is inside the Kokomo province on the map on the south bend of the Wabash before it hits Logansport. It also doesn't contain the much bigger and economically important city of Logansport, or the cities of Rochester and Wabash. And, Kenapocomoco is a weird name like "Hoosier" or "Knobstone" in that it describes the site of a famous Miami Indian city that was destroyed a long time ago. The US forcibly removed the Miami a long time ago, and they now reside in Oklahoma. It's true that we do have a lot of native place names, but that province should just be called "Logansport" or, if you like a more fanciful name, "Upper Wabash" or "Wabash Heartland" or something like that.

Gary is fine in placement, with one glaring problem. You have inside dejure Michiana. I take it that you've probably not talked to a resident of Indiana about our state, but even if the entire world broke down, and a millenium passed, that area would still be known to Hoosiers as "The Region" or "East Chicago." (Plus, I'd die before Indiana gave anything to the Mitt-shapped part of Michigan!!! :p ) Alternately, that area is also known as the Calumet Region. It's true that Michiana is a legit regional name, but it's centered on South Bend, instead, and really only includes portions of Michigan that contribute workers to South Bend and Elkhart, from Berrien and Cass Counties in Southern Michigan. The area known as "Michiana" is represented by three different provinces on your map, and not all the way into the "Mitt."

Included below are suggested changes to the provinces and holdings, along with an image of my suggested province changes and a .psd file containing the mockup split into layers.

Province Holding Suggestions
Code:
# 120 - Fort Wayne

# County Title
title = c_fort_wayne

# Settlements
max_settlements = 4
b_fort_wayne_IN = castle
b_auburn_IN = temple
b_angola_IN = city
b_spencerville_IN = castle
b_huntington_IN = city
b_bluffton_IN = castle
b_IUPUFW_IN = temple
b_warsaw_IN = city

# Misc
culture = rostmann
religion = rust_cultist

# 168 - Southold # should probably be called South Bend, or even Michiana, while at the same time removing the "Michiana" as a dejure title and renmaing it something else.

# County Title
title = c_southold

# Settlements
max_settlements = 4
b_south_bend_IN = castle
b_elkhart_IN = temple
b_niles_MI = city
b_mishawaka_IN = city
b_goshen_IN = castle
b_notre_dame_IN = temple

# Misc
culture = rostmann
religion = rust_cultist

# 169 - Gary #Gary is fine, although "The Region" or "Calumet" is good, even though you'd probably have to rename "Calumet" in Illinois to just plain ol' "Chicago"

# County Title
title = c_gary

# Settlements
max_settlements = 4
b_gary_IN = castle
b_michigan_city_IN = city
b_la_porte_IN = castle
b_valparaiso_IN = temple
b_hammond_IN = city
b_crown_point_IN = temple

# Misc
culture = motowner
religion = rust_cultist

# 1059 - Evansville

# County Title
title = c_evansville

# Settlements
max_settlements = 4
b_evansville_IN = castle
b_chandler_IN = city
b_newburgh_IN = temple
b_boonville_IN = castle
b_mount_vernon_IN = city
b_uni_southern_indiana_IN = temple

# Misc
culture = riverlander
religion = revelationist

# 1060 - Hoosier # If you have to name something Knobstone, it would be this province, since it would be the one to contain it.

# County Title
title = c_hoosier

# Settlements
max_settlements = 3
b_jeffersonville_IN = castle
b_clarksville_IN = city
b_new_albany_IN = castle
b_jasper_IN = temple
b_madison_IN = city
b_columbus_IN = castle
b_french_lick_IN = temple
b_santa_claus_IN castle

# Misc
culture = riverlander
religion = revelationist

# 1061 - Versailles

# County Title
title = c_versailles

# Settlements
max_settlements = 3
b_versailles_IN = castle
b_canaan_IN = temple
b_shelbyville_IN = castle
b_greensburg_IN = city
b_lawrenceburg_IN = temple

# Misc
culture = riverlander
religion = revelationist

# 1062 - Vincennes

# County Title
title = c_vincennes

# Settlements
max_settlements = 3
b_vincennes_IN = castle
b_loogootee_IN = city
b_sullivan_IN = castle
b_washington_IN = city
b_vincennes_univ_IN = temple

# Misc
culture = riverlander
religion = revelationist

# 1063 - Indianapolis

# County Title
title = c_indianapolis #Also called "Circle City" or "Indy"

# Settlements
max_settlements = 5
b_indianapolis_IN = castle
b_avon_IN = temple
b_lawrence_IN = city
b_speedway_IN = temple
b_carmel_IN = city
b_fishers_IN = castle
b_geist_IN = temple
b_plainfield_IN = city
b_noblesville_IN = castle
b_greenwod_IN = city
b_lebanon_IN = castle
b_butler_univ_IN = temple
b_IUPUI_IN = temple

# Misc
culture = rostmann
religion = rust_cultist

# 1064 - Kokomo # Basically the larger portion of the Central Till Plains

# County Title
title = c_kokomo

# Settlements
max_settlements = 3
b_kokomo_IN = castle
b_marion_IN = city #Home to the largest private college in the state, and one of the largest evangelical colleges in the world
b_IWU_IN = temple #The university from above
b_tipton_IN = city
b_gas_city_IN = castle
b_fairmount_IN = temple #Home of James Dean, fairly popular cultural town for the state

# Misc
culture = rostmann
religion = rust_cultist

# 1065 - Muncie # Eastern edge of the Central Till Plains in the state

# County Title
title = c_muncie

# Settlements
max_settlements = 3
b_muncie_IN = castle
b_winchester_IN = temple
b_anderson_IN = castle
b_ball_state_IN = temple
b_richmond_IN = city
b_new_castle_IN = castle
b_connersville_IN = city
b_hartford_cty_IN = temple

# Misc
culture = rostmann #was riverlander
religion = rust_cultist

# 1066 - Knobstone #aka Bloomington. If you have to have a Knobstone, rename "Hoosier" to "Knobstone," and rename "Knobstone" to "Hoosier" since Bloomington is the home Indiana University and they are known as the "Hoosiers"

# County Title
title = c_knobstone

# Settlements
max_settlements = 3
b_bloomington_IN = city
b_martinsville_IN = castle
b_bedford_IN = city
b_spencer_IN = castle
b_nashville_IN = temple
b_indiana_university_IN = temple

# Misc
culture = riverlander
religion = revelationist

# 1067 - High Land

# County Title
title = c_high_land # I don't like this name either. It would probably be better just to call it Terre Haute.

# Settlements
max_settlements = 4
b_terre_haute_IN = castle
b_greencastle_IN = city
b_indiana_state_univ_IN = temple
b_rose_hulman_IN = temple
b_brazil_IN = castle
b_rockville_IN = city
b_crawfordsville_IN = city
b_danville_IN = temple

# Misc
culture = rostmann
religion = rust_cultist

# 1068 - Tippecanoe

# County Title
title = c_tippecanoe # This one is acceptable, given that the land was ceded to America in the Treat of Tippecanoe. Alternate names would be Lafayette, which is by far its largest city

# Settlements
max_settlements = 4
b_purdue_IN = temple
b_lafayette_IN = city
b_delphi_IN = temple
b_rensselaer_IN = city
b_west_lafayette_IN = castle
b_frankfort_IN = castle
b_monticello_IN = temple

# Misc
culture = rostmann
religion = rust_cultist

# 1069 - Kenapocomoco # This should be something like "Wabash" or "Wabash Valley" or "Upper Wabash" as it is defined by the Wabash river and the cities on the river. It also forms part of the Corn Belt, same as Kokomo and Muncie

# County Title
title = c_kenapocomoco

# Settlements
max_settlements = 3
b_logansport_IN = castle
b_wabash_IN = city
b_peru_IN = castle
b_rochester_IN = city
b_plymouth_IN = temple

# Misc
culture = rostmann
religion = rust_cultist

Image of Suggested Mockup

XHPdT3d.png

The top shows current and suggested names, the bottom just the provinces and river layout superimposed. The left side the default set-up, and the right-side suggested province changes.

Indianapolis has been expanded to include the entire Indianapolis metro CSA, and all of it's attendant surrounding cities and regions: Noblesville, Fishers, Carmel, Geist, Plainfield, Brownsburg, Avon, Greenfield, and Greenwood. It also directly connects to "Hoosier" and Versailles, instead of going through the "Knobstone" province. Indy directly connects both topographically and through road networks directly to Cincinnati and Louisville. It doesn't make sense to travel first to a destination southwest in the hilly part of the state before heading back east and/or southeast, especially considering how flat the state is outside of the Southwest corner.

"Knobstone" has been moved southwest to represent Bloomington-Martinsville-Bedford. Bloomington is a liberal bastion of the state, and home to IU, while Martinsville is a fairly large kinda-part-of-Indy city located on SR-37 and sharing a lot of the same workers between Martinsville and Bloomington. Bedford is nestled to the south of Bloomington, but this whole region is the producer of the world's best limestone for building, in addition to anthracite coal mining. "Hoosier" has been expanded east to Madison and west to Jasper and Santa Claus (Yes, we have a town called Santa Claus). These two provinces represent the hilliest part of the state. It's basically mountainous and very difficult to travel without roads due to tons of aggressive riverine erosion through the Crawford and Norman Uplands and the Mitchell Plateau.

Parque_Estatal_Brown_County,_Indiana,_Estados_Unidos,_2012-10-14,_DD_10.jpg

I wasn't joking about traversability. The whole area is riverine gorges cloaked in thick forests.

Evansville is fine, although I'd recommend, if you're not into making the Wabash navigable, adjusting the river to match Evansville's western border. The river is a huge barrier, and both Illinois and Indiana agree that the middle of the river is the state/regional border.

Versailles is fine, as well, although it has been shrunk to represent that region's function as a corridor to Cincinnati.

"High Land" has been adjusted to match the Wabash and the new "Knobstone" border, and contains Crawfordsville and Greencastle.

Tippecanoe loses its portions north of the Kankakee, but gains a straighter corridor to Indy to represent the I-65 way, and to include Frankfort.

Gary or "The Region" includes down to the Kankakee, and I seriously suggest putting it dejure with Chicago. It's borders represent the Indiana portion of the Calumet drainshed.

Southold (weird name for Southbend, by the way) and Kenapocomoco (which is even weirder) have had their shared border pushed south to represent the traversability of the Toll Road and influence of St. Joseph county down to SR 6. Fort Wayne, the second-largest powerbase in Indiana after Indy, has encroached south and west to contain Warsaw and Huntington. Kenapockamackawacka/Upper Wabash, has spread south to take Logansport, Peru, and Wabash (which was America's first electric city, by the way!).

Vincennes has been shrunk and moved to the Wabash's left bank. Although, you should probably make the Wabash navigable up to Terre Haute, since that's the limit of its navigability up until erosion made it untenable for Steam ships. If your "ships" in the game are small ships, you could navigate the Wabash all the way up to Huntington, which is precisely what happened historically.

And lastly, Kokomo and Muncie, which represent the areas I grew up in, have changed a bit as well. They are also both core areas of farming and industry, representing the extreme western edge of the Rust Belt. Kokomo, for instance, has several automotive factories, like Chrysler and Delphi, while Marion (inside the Kokomo province) contains a plant for General Motors (for now). There's also large amounts of windmills (same as the Kackalackmanackapockoloo province) that are used for power in the region, although I don't know if they'd be operational in your set-up.

PSD File


This PSD has several layers, all unadulterated that you can drop into your version of the map.
 

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As a fellow Hoosier resident I can attest to the accuracy of the above.

I've learned that if you mention Indiana, one of us inevitably shows up. There are literally dozens of us!

But, for real, I wanted to give the area a little better treatment. People often don't realize that Indiana is the 15th largest state in the Union as of the 2010 census. The Indianapolis metro area alone has over two million people. But even more than that, in a collapsed world: Indiana would be a damn good place to live. All of those people living in the metro corridor from CT to DC don't have the arable land to support themselves, but in the breadbasket: We do.

Indiana has a favorable climate (even if it varies considerably on a daily basis), navigable rivers, and tons of rich farmland. We also have access to some of the highest volumes of freshwater in the country, and limited exposure to natural disasters. While we do get tornadoes (I've been inside two buildings that were hit), we don't get anything else: No wildfires, too far from faultlines to have anything serious earthquake-related, our winters are not that bad, etc. We grow corn, soybeans, wheat, oats, tomatoes, potatoes, marijuana, etc. In fact, you can grow almost anything here. About the only things I know that cannot grow well here are cassava, jicama, and celeriac; All of which are not really staple foods in America anyways. We also have cattle, horses, sheep, llamas, chickens, pigs, and we're a destination for a large number of waterfowl like Canadian Geese or other ducks.

It probably comes off a bit biased, but if the poop hit the air spinner: The whole Eastern Riverine Midwest would be a good destination zone. It's completely self-sustaining.
 

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I understand that some Indianan angst may come from Gary's inclusion in Michigan, but from the same Donation of Constantine federal act which rightfully gave Michigan the Toledo strip, at least a sliver of Gary's shoreline is rightfully part of Michigan as well (as the first act defining Michigan's southern border flatly stated that it was to be a line from the southernmost bend in Lake Michigan drawn straight east until it hit Lake Erie somewhere) and so I feel completely justified in Gary's inclusion within dejure Michigan. :p

That aside, that sort of effortpost shouldn't be spurned-- you're right that Indiana (and actually several eastern states) is a bit wonky in terms of geography. I only ever got hold of a national map which displayed county borders and fit the equirectangular projection used around the time western Missouri was being worked on, iirc. Before that, I had state borders down and was just eyeballing everything within that, and very probably screwed several things up outside of Indiana as well. I'll have a go at working your suggestions in, and I'll probably tweak some of the province borders a bit while I'm at it.
 

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I understand that some Indianan angst may come from Gary's inclusion in Michigan, but from the same Donation of Constantine federal act which rightfully gave Michigan the Toledo strip, at least a sliver of Gary's shoreline is rightfully part of Michigan as well (as the first act defining Michigan's southern border flatly stated that it was to be a line from the southernmost bend in Lake Michigan drawn straight east until it hit Lake Erie somewhere) and so I feel completely justified in Gary's inclusion within dejure Michigan. :p

It's not who is supposed to have what based on what would be, at the time this is set, a centuries-old treaty. It's the simple fact that The Region connects directly into the Chicago metro in many ways. It shares workers, since a giant portion of population lives in Indiana but works in Chicago. It is directly connected through urban construction. It's basically a giant city from Gary to the Wisconsin border. It shares municipal services and metro transport lines directly with Chicago. They watch the same sports teams (Cubs and Bears), they share the news and television channels, and the same sources of print media.

The two are completely intertwined physically, economically, and culturally.

If you have to keep part of the Lake Michigan shore in dejure Michiana, you should split the province in half just west of Michigan City, so Portage and Valpo are in The Region along with everything down to the Kankakee, and have La Porte, Chesterton, and Michigan City inside the Southold province. I'm not too keen on Fort Wayne being in Michiana, since Michiana is the term for the economic region centered mostly around South Bend, and Fort Wayne is the second-largest city in the whole state and one of our foundational cities and treasured cultural locations, in addition to being its own regional powerbase...

That aside, that sort of effortpost shouldn't be spurned-- you're right that Indiana (and actually several eastern states) is a bit wonky in terms of geography. I only ever got hold of a national map which displayed county borders and fit the equirectangular projection used around the time western Missouri was being worked on, iirc. Before that, I had state borders down and was just eyeballing everything within that, and very probably screwed several things up outside of Indiana as well. I'll have a go at working your suggestions in, and I'll probably tweak some of the province borders a bit while I'm at it.

That .psd file contains the changes that I made, and believe they are all good for the game, as well as for balance. I did give a lot of potential baronies (including all physical universities of over 10,000 students as temples, since you put Purdue in but left out IU and Notre Dame). But, I did not change the max holdings, culture, or religion, so your overall balance should be good. If you are not going to take all of my suggestions, at least flip-flop the name "Knobstone" and "Hoosier" since Hoosier would be better with the IU "Hoosiers" of Bloomington, and that way Knobstone actually contains the place it's named after. And, make Indy directly connect to Versailles and the Southern portion of the state after expanding it a bit south (Seriously, I put a lot of effort into my suggestions above). It's a straight shot from Indy to Louisville and Cincy, and there's no need to go through the roughest area of the state first to get to either place.

Also, totes didn't realize you were from Michigan. I realize that may color your interpretation of my suggestions, but thus is the nature of the Indiana-Michigan rivalry.