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Cruxador

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Prevent the kings from attacking the emperor with de jure CBs. Maybe they could if they have the right traits (cynical? ambitious?)
I'm guessing that by far the easiest way to do this would be to just make his holdings their own tiny kingdom, since that's what Paradox did for the Pope. Out of curiosity, by the way, what kind of places are being suggested for where the "Imperial California" are to be located? It seems to me that Sacramento would make the most sense, not only because it's the historical capital, but because it's substantially smaller and less powerful than several other areas, which fits the tone right. But although it makes the most sense to me, it's by no means the only resonable option/[/quote]
The emperor punishing kings he dislikes with excommunication (or an equivalent), and rewarding those he likes with imperial favor.
This seems like a pretty obvious thing to add in some regard, but what would imperial favor be? A big shot in the arm of piety? That makes the most sense to me from a logical perspective (maybe with half as much prestige as well) but it's a bit lacklustre from a player's perspective, especially confirmed to the pope who hands out hundreds of gold when you're fighting heathens.
An option for the emperor to give one king claims on counties owned by another king, or other boons.
Wouldn't it be easier to just use that whole "religious head may give you the ability to invade members of the same religion" mechanic? Is there something I'm missing there?
  • The emperor can call in the kings to aid him in defensive wars, even against other kings.
  • An event to give up claims on the emperor's lands, in exchange for gaining favor.
This seems obvious enough that I don't see why anyone'd contest it.
  • Some difficult way for the emperor to vassalize kings, maybe with a high cost if successful (sets centralization, crown authority, and feudal levies/taxes to minimum, for example).
  • The emperor has some sort of reassert imperial authority CB, in which he declares war against all remaining independent rulers (of the same religion?) in de jure empire lands. Victory removes the Figurehead/Puppet trait and vassalizes everyone.
Something like this is definitely a good idea to make playing as the Emperor fun. A lot depends on implementation, though. I also think this is a place where people can look to Europa Universalis for inspiration. So to properly vassalize a "vassal", for example, high opinion would be needed. Over 75, or over 50 if same dynasty, perhaps? Maybe if same dynasty and the king is younger than the empire, depending on where you want to go with the culture. And of course it should have some manner of prestige and/or piety requirements, which should be non-trivial in magnitude. That final "restore the empire if you win this war" decision should obviously be a big deal, and there are other "you essentially won this scenario" type decisions to model it after, but I'd also like to suggest giving it a legalism requirement – perhaps about three to even show up and then about five to be usable – since what you're doing, from the way you folks have been describing it, is reasserting the legal authority of the old empire.
What if the Emperor had a small realm and was an elected monarchy, so all the kings and dukes in de jure California could vote? It'd create options to consolidate power while allowing for lots of instability and factionalism.
Kings can vote on laws in their de jure empires even if they're not de facto vassals.
Also, that would leave California mechanically the same, more or less, as the HCC. Not exactly interesting variance, now is that? :p
Well, there are a lot of ways to mitigate this (I think I've mentioned this before, but see how heavily Meneth has changed the rules in HIP to differentiate HRE and ERE for example). It would conceptually be a pretty valid way to implement. But I agree that it's not nearly as novel and fun as what's being talked about by SteelyGlint, which makes me really excited to play California for mechanical reasons, on top of the reasons I already wanted to.
Would those bonuses still apply to de jure vassals who haven't been vassalized? Plus, elective empires with king-level vassals tend to have problems, since kings don't like being vassalized. I could imagine it being interesting at least.
I rather suppose that those problems are what have recently happened prior to the beginning of the game.
 
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SacredDatura

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This is actually pretty similar to my proposition: the emperor has would only control a small region directly, and have none of the warring kings as vassals. He would also start with some sort of Figurehead/Puppet trait which restricts his warring a bit, and would be the head of the religion (I don't know if that would discourage the kings from attacking him).

There are lot more potential mechanics bouncing around, and we need to figure out which ones would work well together.
  • Prevent the kings from attacking the emperor with de jure CBs. Maybe they could if they have the right traits (cynical? ambitious?)
  • The emperor punishing kings he dislikes with excommunication (or an equivalent), and rewarding those he likes with imperial favor.
  • An event to give up claims on the emperor's lands, in exchange for gaining favor.
  • An option for the emperor to give one king claims on counties owned by another king, or other boons.
  • The emperor can call in the kings to aid him in defensive wars, even against other kings.
  • Some difficult way for the emperor to vassalize kings, maybe with a high cost if successful (sets centralization, crown authority, and feudal levies/taxes to minimum, for example).
  • The emperor has some sort of reassert imperial authority CB, in which he declares war against all remaining independent rulers (of the same religion?) in de jure empire lands. Victory removes the Figurehead/Puppet trait and vassalizes everyone.
This actually sounds a bit more like the Eastern Zhou period in Chinese history than the Three Kingdoms period. Which is very exciting to me, the Eastern Zhou period is one of the most fascinating periods in Chinese history.

What if the Emperor had a small realm and was an elected monarchy, so all the kings and dukes in de jure California could vote? It'd create options to consolidate power while allowing for lots of instability and factionalism.
The imperial throne would very quickly pass into the hands of some king in its current form. If there was a way to restrict (or strongly encourage) electors to vote for only members of the imperial family or some other subset that excludes the electors themselves it would be great.
 

Athalcor

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This actually sounds a bit more like the Eastern Zhou period in Chinese history than the Three Kingdoms period. Which is very exciting to me, the Eastern Zhou period is one of the most fascinating periods in Chinese history.


The imperial throne would very quickly pass into the hands of some king in its current form. If there was a way to restrict (or strongly encourage) electors to vote for only members of the imperial family or some other subset that excludes the electors themselves it would be great.

Tanistry, maybe?
 

SteelyGlint

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Wouldn't it be easier to just use that whole "religious head may give you the ability to invade members of the same religion" mechanic? Is there something I'm missing there?
The emperor wouldn't want full-blown kingdom invasions, since there would be a big risk of one king becoming too strong. If a king gets too strong, there is a risk he will usurp the empire title.

Giving the kings claims on just a few counties (the counties along the border between the kingdoms) keeps them fighting amongst themselves and angry at each other rather than the emperor. We briefly discussed an invasion CB as the emperor's "nuclear option," for example he could give it to a king who comes to his defense against a hated king who is attacking imperial lands.
 

Julian_Delphiki

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The imperial throne would very quickly pass into the hands of some king in its current form. If there was a way to restrict (or strongly encourage) electors to vote for only members of the imperial family or some other subset that excludes the electors themselves it would be great.
My thought was that if you kept the independent kingdoms balanced, there could be enough infighting to make consolidation of power a pain in the ass. But that's just how I'm conceiving of it, and that may not actually play out.
 

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This actually sounds a bit more like the Eastern Zhou period in Chinese history than the Three Kingdoms period. Which is very exciting to me, the Eastern Zhou period is one of the most fascinating periods in Chinese history.

That's actually a pretty good point - it'd be more accurate to say I was originally inspired by the Three Kingdoms period and it's started to drift over more to a bit like Eastern Zhou. Though the idea of a figurehead emperor and such came from how the Han Emperor was still around and had nominal power for at least some of the Three Kingdoms era. Plus, the empire will have already existed as a unified thing for centuries; the chaos of the five kingdoms at war is a fairly recent development. We might give the region a bit of flavour from both periods, they're both really interesting, but of course we're aiming to make California feel like its own thing at the end of the day.

(I really need to get my hands on a copy of ROT3K. :( )
 

Cruxador

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If we're drawing from Spring and Autumn, it might be cool to have a small event chain based on the Hundred Schools of Thought, with itinerant noble scholars (like those of the Shi) occasionally appearing and writing philosophical essays for you, with a chance to increase your prestige, learning, or perhaps piety.

Something based on the Zhou hegemon would also address the "what can the Emperor reward people with?" question: An honorary* title that allows you a new CB on any non-Californians in de jure California. I would think that the most useful victory results there would be something a bit like a crusade, except that you automatically make it a new state rather than having the option to keep it yourself – or if you do have the option, it would amount to seizing illegal power, and would give you a big penalty to prestige or piety,† to the opinion of the Emperor, and to the opinions of the other Californian kings.

On a somewhat related note, I'm curious what's been thought up with regards to this apparently new and pan-Californian religion that the Emperor is head of.



*Or maybe titular if CBs can't be tied to honorary? Can they even be attached to other titles without hardcoding? I sure hope so.
†depending on how closely you end up tying imperial service to the Californian religion
 
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I'm playing as Migonids->New England->Yankee Empire, and I got the British Invasion event chain. There was one major bug: 70 thousand redcoats showed up in Plymouth and did nothing. The Redcoat Dominion didn't declare war on anyone. The army has been waiting in Plymouth for twenty years now, getting worn down by attrition to less than two thousand remaining redcoats.
 

SotoElTerremoto

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I'm playing as Migonids->New England->Yankee Empire, and I got the British Invasion event chain. There was one major bug: 70 thousand redcoats showed up in Plymouth and did nothing. The Redcoat Dominion didn't declare war on anyone. The army has been waiting in Plymouth for twenty years now, getting worn down by attrition to less than two thousand remaining redcoats.

*cough Nation States cough*
 

thomas.berubeg

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Sort of along the same lines as the above... I had what I presume was the beginning of the British Invasion event chain, what with the Brits leaving three people in my court.

But...

that was nearly 70 years ago, and nothing's happened with them....?
 

Old Man Jenkins

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Sort of along the same lines as the above... I had what I presume was the beginning of the British Invasion event chain, what with the Brits leaving three people in my court.

But...

that was nearly 70 years ago, and nothing's happened with them....?

Thats the foreign traders event chain, happens on the east coast, its a less hostile way of meeting the Brits, but the invasion does still come.
 

das

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Do Anabaptists have... anything at all as yet, in terms of features?
 

SteelyGlint

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Do Anabaptists have... anything at all as yet, in terms of features?
Anabaptists are a bit boring right now, TBH. We'll probably add a bit more flavor to them and other neglected religions at some point.

Also, I just committed a large set of events associated with Sacred Heart (Sagrado Corazón) characters seeing visions of the Blessed Virgin. This is inspired by real world Marian Apparitions, which I think especially makes sense for SH because they already have Our Lady of Guadalupe as one of their saints.

You may see a "real" Marian Apparition, but you may also have the option to fabricate a fraudulent one. Investigating the visions supposedly witnessed by your vassals is a major part of the event chain, as a hoax can be embarrassing to you and harm the moral authority of the faith. You can build shrines or even cathedrals to commemorate an apparition, attracting pilgrims to the province (more money and potentially an army of zealous warrior-monks). When a grand marian cathedral is constructed, nearby SH rulers will be invited to visit it.

I'd like anyone who is playing a Sacred Heart ruler to grab the latest Github version, and let me know if you find any issues with these events. I'm especially interested in knowing if they're too common or too rare, I don't want the player to be spammed with apparition related events, but I also don't want them to be so rare you never see them.
 

Klonself

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How long before those of us on the west coast can raid the east for fun? :)

I expect to have at the least all the Californian provinces fully defined before the end of the month, and from there it's likely the rest of the coast wouldn't take too much longer. Full playability, however, might take a bit longer than that.
 

Cruxador

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How long before those of us on the west coast can raid the east for fun? :)
That would require a panama portage, wouldn't it? I guess you could enlarge the river systems and allow for a Lewis and Clark (ft Sacagawea) route with a portage in the Rockies, but that's hardly what I'd call feasible for proper ships and definitely not something that would happen for a long time. Although more rivers might be cool, extending the map to include panama, while it'd help the current borders by not cutting mesoamerican regions in half and would add Trinidad and Tobago to the Caribbean, would also add parts of Colombia and Venezuela. At that point you might as well push it down to the impassible jungle - except that jungle could be tribal just as easily as impassible, and would be more fun. So you go further and before you know it the whole new world is in-game. In other words, it's not in scope and if it were added it wouldn't be for a quite long time.
Anabaptists are a bit boring right now, TBH. We'll probably add a bit more flavor to them and other neglected religions at some point.
While you may choose to have different priorities than I do, it seems to me that once the map is complete, evaluating which of the religions are broken or relatively uninteresting and fixing them up would be a logical next step.
 
Last edited:

das

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Maybe expand the map to the north and add a Northwest Passage that actually exists this time around? :p