After the End - A post-apocalyptic America mod

[DarkReborn]

(like, you know, making the whole map playable) are done.

Yeah, I'm still interested in the California setup, IIRC from the last thread, it was described as being split in a Three ( Four? Five? ) Kingdoms-esque way. Does this mean that California used to be unified into a big realm like the Holy Columbian Confederacy is, but recently fell into chaos and now warlords are quarrelling over it? Or is the similarity just in the borders, and that's all?

 

[Klonself]

There will be or will have been a larger Californian Empire, yes, and we're considering what to do with the larger political situation on the west coast. One option is a sort of puppet emperor system, if we can manage it.

 

[SotoElTerremoto]

I think there should be lots of rich kingdoms in Cali. Three or two trade hotspots (the most major being San Francisco Bay) and a bunch of big merchant republics. Maybe a Kingdom in the Valley, like Secrenmen (Sacramento) who wishes to own the ports of Valleho and Monterey. Would it be possible to have lots of Medican influence? Like instead of doge the leader of the Repubkics are called "Dux", etc.

 

[Cruxador]

Hey, I'm a new user to this mod- is there any lore behind it? Like, which apocalypse happened?

In a few places it's called "the deluge", and the time before it is consistently referred to as "antideluvian", so I guess it was some manner of holopnigmo.

There will be or will have been a larger Californian Empire, yes, and we're considering what to do with the larger political situation on the west coast. One option is a sort of puppet emperor system, if we can manage it.

Something functioning a bit like the Emperor of Japan in EU? It might be worth looking at the mechanics implemented by Meneth to keep the HRE from being too centralized in Project Balance (now part of HIP) but no matter how you look at it, that's a really tough task.

I think there should be lots of rich kingdoms in Cali. Three or two trade hotspots (the most major being San Francisco Bay) and a bunch of big merchant republics. Maybe a Kingdom in the Valley, like Secrenmen (Sacramento) who wishes to own the ports of Valleho and Monterey. Would it be possible to have lots of Medican influence? Like instead of doge the leader of the Repubkics are called "Dux", etc.

The general policy is to stick with modern names for both places and things. What's more, the period of Anglo dominance is looking like it might turn out to have been historically brief, in which case modifying names to be less latin-sounding would be misguided in my opinion. Especially since the only real names we have now that differentiate people from northern and southern California are Spanish in origin.

 

[Darsara]

Actually, I believe the usage of Deluge and Antediluvian is a reference for A Canticle for Leibowitz, where the Apocalypse is referred to as the Flame Deluge, and not meant to indicate that it was an actual flood. Plus, it just sounds appropriate for something that has probably been recorded and passed down by church groups.

 

[Specialist290]

A thought just leaped into my head that, for some unique flavor, we could have a small event chain for natives of the SoCal / southern Nevada area where young men who have just become adults go out into the desert to accomplish some great feat in order to prove they have "the right stuff."

 

[DarkReborn]

One option is a sort of puppet emperor system, if we can manage it.

That sounds really cool actually. Though as you say, mechanically it seems hard to pull out. If we could only set a character on regency without they being incapable or a child, that could simulate a puppet emperor situation.

Actually, I believe the usage of Deluge and Antediluvian is a reference for A Canticle for Leibowitz, where the Apocalypse is referred to as the Flame Deluge, and not meant to indicate that it was an actual flood. Plus, it just sounds appropriate for something that has probably been recorded and passed down by church groups.

Antediluvian can also be used as a metaphor to talk about something really ancient or from another "era". I'd say that this meaning is what the devs were aiming for.

And I would drop the subject, Ofaloaf just said barely a page ago that he made it vague on purpose to avoid these kind of "internet arguments".

 

[Darsara]

Antediluvian can also be used as a metaphor to talk about something really ancient or from another "era". I'd say that this meaning is what the devs were aiming for.

And I would drop the subject, Ofaloaf just said barely a page ago that he made it vague on purpose to avoid these kind of "internet arguments".

I... wasn't arguing about anything? Just mentioning something I think I remember from when this mod was young? I guess I apologize to anyone that takes offence at that, and state that it's not my intent to start an argument? I mean it might no longer be the intent, it's just something I seem to recall from months ago when this mod was closer to Leibowitz.

 

[DarkReborn]

I... wasn't arguing about anything? Just mentioning something I think I remember from when this mod was young? I guess I apologize to anyone that takes offence at that, and state that it's not my intent to start an argument? I mean it might no longer be the intent, it's just something I seem to recall from months ago when this mod was closer to Leibowitz.

I apologize if you felt it was rude, but I actually meant to link that to Cruxador's post, sorry.

 

[SteelyGlint]

Potential suggestion regarding Anabaptists Holy Warring everybody- remove the Holy War casus belli, add county Conquest (Muslim), the one that costs 50 piety (and only grabs a single county of course). I think this might more accurately cover the more militant shift that the Anabaptists have undergone due to conflict with the Americanists. They are more willing to fight and go to war, but not for the expressed purpose of spreading their own religion, as in a Holy War.

(I also prefer it balance-wise because it seems weird seeing Amish armies conquering their way to the east coast within a decade or so, but that's personal preference haha.)

Also, I have some WAD questions. I'm using the mediafire version of the mod.
1) Reformed Rust Cultists do not appear to have the regular Holy War casus belli. Also, they have concubines while unreformed rust cultists do not.

2) Brethren faith does not have coastal county conquest, like the norse, just regular adjacent county conquest.

3) Atomicists in the southwest, due to the way they are in small one-province territories, really feel like they want the subjugation casus belli, pagan-style, so that there can be some way unify everything out there.

Ok so those weren't questions, but more- is this WAD? Because these things are definitely understandable if there are balance reasons or such for them, I'm just curious to know if they are intended.

I agree with a lot of your suggestions. The county conquest CB does make more sense for Anabaptists than holy wars.

I believe both forms of the Rust Cult should have holy wars, so the lack of them might be a mistake somewhere. As for the concubines, I think that might be WAD.

Brethren probably should have coastal conquest CB, but I'm not exactly sure how to do that.

I thought Atomicists already had the subjugation CB, but you're right that they don't. We'll probably be adding more characters to the southwest in the future, so it won't be 1-county rulers forever.

 

[Jalathas]

Obviously low on the priority list, but the talk of antediluvian got me thinking that there might be a heresy (for Catholicism, Evangelism, a potential future Judaism or really any Christian- or Abrahamic-derived religion) that believes that God betrayed the Covenant of Noah by destroying the world again, preach the belief that they are owed reparations by heaven, and make demands rather than pray.

 

[Cruxador]

Another thought on the Emperor of California, might be most effective to give him a tiny realm, a duchy or single province (which would make sense even if you decide to drop the idea of him being a figurehead still, but give the Kings of California a [one of those red or green things below the traits, name is slipping my mind] and use a handful of events and/or decisions to play off of that instead of actually giving him anything that the game recognizes as vassalage, but give the Emperor some kind of decision which would allow him to vassalize people with the trait in unusual circumstances (which would also remove the trait).

Obviously low on the priority list, but the talk of antediluvian got me thinking that there might be a heresy (for Catholicism, Evangelism, a potential future Judaism or really any Christian- or Abrahamic-derived religion) that believes that God betrayed the Covenant of Noah by destroying the world again, preach the belief that they are owed reparations by heaven, and make demands rather than pray.

That does sound like a potentially really fun heresy, a place where you can go somewhat hog-wild in events to make something fun. Though there's plenty of places in the mod like that.

I apologize if you felt it was rude, but I actually meant to link that to Cruxador's post, sorry.

But... I also wasn't arguing?

 

[SteelyGlint]

Another thought on the Emperor of California, might be most effective to give him a tiny realm, a duchy or single province (which would make sense even if you decide to drop the idea of him being a figurehead still, but give the Kings of California a [one of those red or green things below the traits, name is slipping my mind] and use a handful of events and/or decisions to play off of that instead of actually giving him anything that the game recognizes as vassalage, but give the Emperor some kind of decision which would allow him to vassalize people with the trait in unusual circumstances (which would also remove the trait).

This is actually pretty similar to my proposition: the emperor has would only control a small region directly, and have none of the warring kings as vassals. He would also start with some sort of Figurehead/Puppet trait which restricts his warring a bit, and would be the head of the religion (I don't know if that would discourage the kings from attacking him).

There are lot more potential mechanics bouncing around, and we need to figure out which ones would work well together.

• Prevent the kings from attacking the emperor with de jure CBs. Maybe they could if they have the right traits (cynical? ambitious?)
• The emperor punishing kings he dislikes with excommunication (or an equivalent), and rewarding those he likes with imperial favor.
• An event to give up claims on the emperor's lands, in exchange for gaining favor.
• An option for the emperor to give one king claims on counties owned by another king, or other boons.
• The emperor can call in the kings to aid him in defensive wars, even against other kings.
• Some difficult way for the emperor to vassalize kings, maybe with a high cost if successful (sets centralization, crown authority, and feudal levies/taxes to minimum, for example).
• The emperor has some sort of reassert imperial authority CB, in which he declares war against all remaining independent rulers (of the same religion?) in de jure empire lands. Victory removes the Figurehead/Puppet trait and vassalizes everyone.

 

[damanamana]

A thought just leaped into my head that, for some unique flavor, we could have a small event chain for natives of the SoCal / southern Nevada area where young men who have just become adults go out into the desert to accomplish some great feat in order to prove they have "the right stuff."

The mod can use the Zunist mechanics for that!

 

[Julian_Delphiki]

This is actually pretty similar to my proposition: the emperor has would only control a small region directly, and have none of the warring kings as vassals. He would also start with some sort of Figurehead/Puppet trait which restricts his warring a bit, and would be the head of the religion (I don't know if that would discourage the kings from attacking him).

There are lot more potential mechanics bouncing around, and we need to figure out which ones would work well together.

• Prevent the kings from attacking the emperor with de jure CBs. Maybe they could if they have the right traits (cynical? ambitious?)
• The emperor punishing kings he dislikes with excommunication (or an equivalent), and rewarding those he likes with imperial favor.
• An event to give up claims on the emperor's lands, in exchange for gaining favor.
• An option for the emperor to give one king claims on counties owned by another king, or other boons.
• The emperor can call in the kings to aid him in defensive wars, even against other kings.
• Some difficult way for the emperor to vassalize kings, maybe with a high cost if successful (sets centralization, crown authority, and feudal levies/taxes to minimum, for example).
• The emperor has some sort of reassert imperial authority CB, in which he declares war against all remaining independent rulers (of the same religion?) in de jure empire lands. Victory removes the Figurehead/Puppet trait and vassalizes everyone.

What if the Emperor had a small realm and was an elected monarchy, so all the kings and dukes in de jure California could vote? It'd create options to consolidate power while allowing for lots of instability and factionalism.

 

[EmperorG]

What if the Emperor had a small demense and was an elected monarchy, so all the kings and dukes in de jure California could vote? It'd create options to consolidate power while allowing for lots of instability and factionalism.

Except that Elective Monarchy is the most stable form of government thanks to the bonuses you get with your vassals, you'd have to do a lot of coding to really cripple any such emperor.

 

[Klonself]

Also, that would leave California mechanically the same, more or less, as the HCC. Not exactly interesting variance, now is that?

 

[Julian_Delphiki]

Would those bonuses still apply to de jure vassals who haven't been vassalized? Plus, elective empires with king-level vassals tend to have problems, since kings don't like being vassalized. I could imagine it being interesting at least.

 

[1930sman]

This is kinda off topic, but have plagues been disabled? I have yet to see a province be afflicted with a disease.

 

[SteelyGlint]

This is kinda off topic, but have plagues been disabled? I have yet to see a province be afflicted with a disease.

There seem to be several categories of vanilla events that don't occur, and I'm not sure why. Plagues are one, random heresies popping up are another. Those are the two I've noticed, and I'd bet there are a lot more I didn't notice.

Some, like most prisoner events, were broken around the CM DLC release in both AtE and vanilla. I don't think those have been fixed yet, but we're basically waiting for a fix in vanilla since we rely on the vanilla file.

If anyone knows what causes these event categories not to function, let us know what the problem is and how to fix it.