After the End - A post-apocalyptic America mod

[Cruxador]

I think it could make for an interesting starting set up if Deseret was divided amongst the mainstream, non-polygamous, Mormons, with a few dukes/counts following a polygamous heresy. That sounds pretty fun to me, at least, since conflict in this game is always more fun than no conflict

That sounds pretty fun to me too. The only real potential offense there is for people who live wherever you put a heretical country, but I think that's a pretty minor problem.

I'd be weary of getting an enthusiastic member of the LDS to do the Mormonism stuff, though. It's best to assume that with any facet of the mod (and the game), the player knows very little going into it, and will need to be introduced to things and have bits explained to them, at least a bit. Someone deeply involved in a subject matter, I fear, would be more likely to create something which while clever and nice to other people who already know the subject, could confuse new people. Someone enthusiastic about a subject matter, in turn, could have a tendency to skew things in favor of whatever subject their interest is in, well beyond what makes sense or works well for gameplay balance. I know my own social and political biases have slipped into the mod in several ways, and trying to keep that sort of thing in check is enough work without having to mind another person's potential biases and skews at the same time.

You're right, of course. At least chances are pretty good of getting one or more mormons willing to offer you consultancy.

Side note, I suspect you meant "wary" rather than "weary" since you're referring to the future. This is intended as a potentially useful bit of knowledge and not an insult for what may be a typo.

One thing I was aiming to do with Utah was to have actually a decently large realm out west somewhere. It's mostly small counties and two-prov duchies out there, and having something big out that way would, in its own way, add some variety to gameplay in the region.

I like Utah's size. I think there's plenty of room for heresy though. There are some tiny states that are mormon as well, for instance, in Arixo and Colorado, and there's no real reason Utah can't have heretics in the heartland. Plus, some of the Nevada oases could easily be a mormon heresy if you don't have other plans for them. "Polygamists of Winnemucca" might be a terrible title for a horror movie but it could be an okay addition to the mod.

Speaking as a non-Mormon with a Mormon best friend (He's actually currently serving his mission.), I would say that the mainstream Mormons shouldn't have polygamy, but should have a heresy that does. If you want to make them stand out from mainstream Christians, maybe give them the ability to send young men to proselytize in non-Mormon lands, using something similar to the wandering Consumerist merchant mechanics that are already implemented.

Sounds a bit like a bike missionary joke. You can already send your priest to do that, and I don't know if it's a good way to make them stand out when we have another religion literally named for their tendency to evangelize, and they don't get anything of the sort.

I would suggest changing mainstream Mormonism to monogamy, getting rid of the Godbeites, as they died out in the 1880s, and the Strangites, as they're almost gone too, and replace them with the Fundamentalists and the Community of Christ, each of which currently exist in larger numbers.

Do note that the point at which this mod turns from history to fiction may not be right at this very minute, but could be some ways back in the past.

Sorry if you thought I was offended. I'm actually just trying to be helpful.

That seems a more logical to me but it's hard to be sure over the internet.

 

[Poldena]

All that being said, Mormonism as a political entity would not be feudal, at least in name. It would be a theocracy, and those who are the landed individuals would be those with the Priesthood keys to do so. There wouldn't be Mayors, Counts, Dukes, or Kings. There would be Bishops, Stake Presidents, Area Presidents and Apostles. I definitely like the Q12 cardinal system, hope that pans out.

I also think there should be a minor title with the name 'Counselor' that each Mormon landed rule can give two of, because Bishoprics/Presidencies are always consisting of three. Bishops and Stake Presidents should also be able to give Relief Society Presidency minor titles to women, as well as Ward/Stake Organist, etc.

 

[Klonself]

However, a theocracy is hard-coded to be unplayable, so something has to give.

Side note, I suspect you meant "wary" rather than "weary" since you're referring to the future.

Might be a regional difference. I've seen both used validly.

 

[Poldena]

You could just change localization as well as make it like muslims, who can hold religious buildings as well as feudal holdings.

 

[Cruxador]

However, a theocracy is hard-coded to be unplayable, so something has to give.

Damn shame, too. There's a lot of fun things that could be done if we got a Republic-style DLC for theocracies.

You could just change localization as well as make it like muslims, who can hold religious buildings as well as feudal holdings.

This seems like a good option at first blush, but the problem is that the mormon church has a specific heritance scheme (to be implemented whenever someone gets around to it, from the sound of things) that isn't compatible with feudal heritance. I think a better option might be to do something like the HRE* where the feudal leader is the temporal ruler in god's name and is parallel to the pope who serves as the spiritual ruler in god's name.

Might be a regional difference. I've seen both used validly.

It depends on what he means. If he means it would make him tired, then "weary" is correct, albeit unconventionally used and a bit oddly phrased, whereas if he meant he was that he's apprehensive about it, "wary" would be correct, and that seems like a much more straightforward potential meaning, so much so that I chose to mention it.

*Not that vanilla CK2 does this justice...

 

[Klonself]

I am sure if he were interested in having someone proofread his forum posts, he would ask someone to check before he posted them, rather than wishing for someone to publicly call him out.

 

[Ofaloaf]

I am sure if he were interested in having someone proofread his forum posts, he would ask someone to check before he posted them, rather than wishing for someone to publicly call him out.

Man, that is not necessary. Being corrected on a spelling matter isn't a big snub and I'm not mad about it.

 

[Madara Uchiha]

Lol everyone needs to relax. Can I offer you gentlemen a cigar and brandy?

 

[Alrekulfr]

Lol everyone needs to relax. Can I offer you gentlemen a cigar and brandy?

I don't know what they were arguing about but I'll take you up on that brandy.

 

[DarkReborn]

Yeah, there seems to be a bit of bad blood in this thread. Chill out people, the internet is no place for seriousness.

 

[Cruxador]

I am sure if he were interested in having someone proofread his forum posts, he would ask someone to check before he posted them, rather than wishing for someone to publicly call him out.

It wasn't intended as a petty insult, just an aside that might interest him since I supposed that he might actually not realize that they were different words and spellings. I'm aware that some people might be grievously offended by insinuations that they have not yet attained perfection in all regards, but Ofaloaf doesn't really strike me that way.

 

[Korbah]

Remember guys to keep things civil. If you someone's comment is making you hot under the collar take a step away from your keyboard, grab a cup of tea and chill out for a few before posting.

 

[Dr.Salt]

Potential suggestion regarding Anabaptists Holy Warring everybody- remove the Holy War casus belli, add county Conquest (Muslim), the one that costs 50 piety (and only grabs a single county of course). I think this might more accurately cover the more militant shift that the Anabaptists have undergone due to conflict with the Americanists. They are more willing to fight and go to war, but not for the expressed purpose of spreading their own religion, as in a Holy War.

(I also prefer it balance-wise because it seems weird seeing Amish armies conquering their way to the east coast within a decade or so, but that's personal preference haha.)

Also, I have some WAD questions. I'm using the mediafire version of the mod.
1) Reformed Rust Cultists do not appear to have the regular Holy War casus belli. Also, they have concubines while unreformed rust cultists do not.

2) Brethren faith does not have coastal county conquest, like the norse, just regular adjacent county conquest.

3) Atomicists in the southwest, due to the way they are in small one-province territories, really feel like they want the subjugation casus belli, pagan-style, so that there can be some way unify everything out there.

Ok so those weren't questions, but more- is this WAD? Because these things are definitely understandable if there are balance reasons or such for them, I'm just curious to know if they are intended.

 

[Julian_Delphiki]

Sounds a bit like a bike missionary joke. You can already send your priest to do that, and I don't know if it's a good way to make them stand out when we have another religion literally named for their tendency to evangelize, and they don't get anything of the sort.

What about missionary events similar to the Jewish merchant events with randomly generated Mormon and evangelical characters?

As an aside, I'm not a Mormon, but I do have a pretty strong fascination with Mormonism, so I'd be happy to help y'all out if you want a Mormonism guy.

 

[ParrotGuy]

Hey, I'm a new user to this mod- is there any lore behind it? Like, which apocalypse happened?

 

[EmperorG]

Hey, I'm a new user to this mod- is there any lore behind it? Like, which apocalypse happened?

It's kept vague on purpose, so the user can use their own imagination as to what happened, as for lore I would suggest reading the religious descriptions of the faiths in game for a good amount of explanation to what happened to them. Also the dynasty score screen has lore for several dynasties on it.

 

[Ofaloaf]

Hey, I'm a new user to this mod- is there any lore behind it? Like, which apocalypse happened?

I've been holding to a "don't get into detail about what happened" rule because then people will ask questions and start disputing the cause of whatever happened and then there'll be internet arguments (the worst sort) about the Cold War or climate change or the singularity or whatever and I don't care for any of that. Besides, for the most part it just plain doesn't matter what exactly happened; the point of it all's just to play around in a feudal America. It's like that bit of the Mystery Science Theater 3000 theme song, but for video games.

 

[damanamana]

Just a quick question: what about the Jews? Especially Chabad, which is a semi-proselytizing sect of Hassidic Judaism that has it's administrative center at 770 Eastern Parkway in Crown Heights, Brooklyn. I can't imagine that Jews would die out in America even after the Event - half of the world's Jews live in the US!

Are there any plans to include them?

 

[Klonself]

This came up in the previous thread but didn't get added to the FAQ - we've discussed this idea among ourselves in the past, and while I'm personally in favour of putting the other Abrahamic faiths somewhere in the mod (perhaps a Jewish Hudsonia?), what it came out to is putting Jews and Muslims in would be a nightmare of rewriting code and events and altering mechanics so doing anything like that is probably something we plan to leave for after more important mod tasks (like, you know, making the whole map playable) are done.

 

[damanamana]

Aw. Well, I'll keep waiting.

Do you know when the full map will be released?