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SteelyGlint

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Have you guys considered adjusting the modified Sayyid and Mirza traits that the descendents of Consumerist prophets get to use one of the specific religion opinion flags, like orthodox_opinion? All you would need to do is take one of the opinion flags that the trait file can read, and change all mentions of consumerist in the script files to that flag's religion. Then, localize that religion entry as Consumerist.

This would prevent Americanist descendents of the Consumerist Prophet from getting an opinion boost with other Americanists, and ensure that they get the proper bonus with Consumerists even if they convert.

The reason I suggest orthodox_opinion is the lack of Orthodox on the map, and that it seems unlikely that it would be added.
Right now the Consumerist Sayyid and Investor traits are loosely restricted to Consumerist characters. If they convert, they will lose the trait (but it might take a reload for that to happen). It's not the best solution, but it could introduce other problems to use the orthodox_opinion modifier (or some other hard-coded, religion-specific opinion modifier).

In a perfect world, we'd get Paradox to allow modders to create their own opinion_customreligion modifiers. I'd also like to be able to create custom sympathy_customreligion traits, but they also rely on specific hard-coded religions.

At least the traits have a more appropriate appearance now, keeping the style and color palette of the old ones but changing the Arabic lettering to a dollar sign.
 

Cruxador

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As much as I'd be amused by the irony, currently I believe the Consumerists use Shia Islam's mechanics
You know, there ain't actually nothing wrong with using the same mechanic in a couple places. There's only so many options based on what Paradox has coded in, after all, as long as you recombine them differently they'll still form fun and unique religions.

Holy aces could be natural wonders (Olympic Rainforest, Mt Rainier (Tahoma to natives) and/or St Helens, perhaps Crater Lake in Oregon and some magestic point in BC, since I don't know Canada)
I don't know Washington, but around northern California people are pretty respectful of redwoods, even to the extent that you could call it veneration for some folks. It wouldn't take that much cultural drift to turn into worship. I don't know if that's worth basing a religion around, but I'd be disappointed if it isn't a thing at all.
 

Anonemuss

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I don't know Washington, but around northern California people are pretty respectful of redwoods, even to the extent that you could call it veneration for some folks. It wouldn't take that much cultural drift to turn into worship. I don't know if that's worth basing a religion around, but I'd be disappointed if it isn't a thing at all.
I thought it was the Sequoia trees that the Californians were respectful of? Not to say they don't also respect Redwoods, but they went so far as to name a national park after the Sequoias (Sequoia & Kings Canyon National Park).
 

Thorpe

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I had already planned on the cultural as well as geographic and political divide between east and west Washington, but this bit seemed odd and you didn't elaborate. Why Norse-Native? Also, it's 600 years in the future after centuries of cultural drift and rebuilding; "hipsters" probably aren't a thing.

I dunno why the norse would be involved, unless he means for Haeda mechanics, but some sort of Natural Wellness religion composed of a deep respect for natural places and a belief in the holistic mind-body connection (alternative medicine, yoga, cleanses, etc). is exactly what I would actually expect to take root in the Cascadia region in the wake of an apocalypse. Mt. Hood or Rainier would make a good holy place, and so would Yosemite, since it'd be far enough away to make reforming a challenge. Just my thoughts of course, I'll be happy as long as Portland isn't a caricatured hipster mecca with a Fred Armisen easter-egg ruler ;)
 

Cruxador

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I thought it was the Sequoia trees that the Californians were respectful of? Not to say they don't also respect Redwoods, but they went so far as to name a national park after the Sequoias (Sequoia & Kings Canyon National Park).
A redwood is a type of sequoia. If you're talking about which of those species though, the coast redwood is more common – folks don't really see giant sequoias much, because they just don't grow that many places. Meanwhile there are several natural forests of the coast redwood that people can visit (including Muir Woods, which is notable in this context for being near a population center) and they're planted in somewhat important places with some regularity – in which situation they become one of the most important landscaping features, for several reasons. Since they're slow-growing, things have to be planned around them, and since (once they're larger) they've been the work of decades, they get a certain inherent importance. Not to mention, for whatever reason it tends to be cooler under redwoods than under other trees, for some reason that I presume has a scientific explanation but which I don't know and which could easily be attributed to mystical significance. And that matters a fair bit in a Californian summer.

There's also the fact to consider that many redwoods, planted at important places in California during the height of the prominence of the USA, are now quite colossal and probably the most notable things on the skylines of many cities, and definitely of Sacramento. I mean, a fifty-year-old redwood is a damn big tree, but at the time of After the End, the trees planted when California was young are going to be nearing the middle of their lifespan, and so you'll have places like the old capitol towered over by ancient trees big enough around to dwarf any other living thing, and much taller than any building that's still standing at this time – and quite possibly taller than any building that's in there now, since Sacramento isn't that high-rising of a city.

Thoretically, reverence might be tempered by a practical need for wood, but pretty much every major city (and certainly every city likely to remain major without trucks and cars) in California is on a body of water – Sacramento is on the confluence of two rivers, Redding's on a river two if you want to go further north, Los Angeles and San Diego are on the sea coast, and of course the Bay Area is on the bay, which connects to both the ocean and to the rivers that run through every other major city in northern California. That makes it easy to send down pine, which is plentiful in the mountains, and more or less negates any need to damage things that are already respected enough to raise a royal hullabaloo if someone wanted to chop them down, and will only become moreso.

tl;dr: Redwoods not being treated as important would be pretty preposterous.
 
Last edited:

Klonself

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Not sure about an entire religion, but absolutely enormous redwoods looming over many cities of the Californian Empire is one of those mental images I like enough I'm gonna have to see if we can work it in somewhere.
 

TheLunarwolf

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Just some ideas.

1, Buddhist/New Age San Francisco.

2, Cannibal Raider style Los Angeles.

3, Sequoia worshipping/Neo Druids in the Northwest.

4, Shia Islamic Michigan.

5, Sunni Islamic Baltimore.
 

SotoElTerremoto

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No, I think SF would be more of a heresy of the rust cult. With Silicon Valley so near. Or maybe said Redwood faith, or an entirely new faith based off of the new society that springs up.
 

modernwhofan

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Will Cali come out once 0.5 is out, or will it be included in an earlier Github update?
 

Klonself

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Barring something like us needing to put out a hotfix for something mod-breaking or a compatability update, 0.5 will be California once it's fully mapped and playable, and hopefully other stuff too.
 

Cruxador

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Not sure about an entire religion, but absolutely enormous redwoods looming over many cities of the Californian Empire is one of those mental images I like enough I'm gonna have to see if we can work it in somewhere.
Yeah, a full religion would be excessive, since "these trees are awesome" kind of lacks theological complexity. But they could easily be mentioned as a feature of some other religion, especially if you're intending to do anything animistic or otherwise paleo-pluralistic. They can easily occupy a role of "wisest and greatest of all lifeforms" or "the best earthly thing to be reincarnated as" or even "minor gods on Earth". If you want to use Indian mechanics, they could easily be one of several gods to choose from, for example, and even otherwise they could be mentioned in a description without being a principle focus. However, I think it might be more appropriate to devise a piety-oriented decision/event for the NorteCali culture (group?) which functions somewhat like the runestones of the norse and exists independent of religion.
 

Deaghaidh

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I dunno why the norse would be involved, unless he means for Haeda mechanics, but some sort of Natural Wellness religion composed of a deep respect for natural places and a belief in the holistic mind-body connection (alternative medicine, yoga, cleanses, etc). is exactly what I would actually expect to take root in the Cascadia region in the wake of an apocalypse. Mt. Hood or Rainier would make a good holy place, and so would Yosemite, since it'd be far enough away to make reforming a challenge. Just my thoughts of course, I'll be happy as long as Portland isn't a caricatured hipster mecca with a Fred Armisen easter-egg ruler ;)

Well the Norse thing comes from 1. A suprisingly large Scandinavian descendant population in rural western Washington ( a result of the prominent fishing and logging industries) and 2. The Puget Sound is one big fjord, and in general an ideal location for transplanting Norse culture and folkways in North America. As a bonus they would be able to raid the merchant cities of Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland.

The reason I didn't think of the sequoias is that thats further than I envisioned this religion stretching south. I'd thought of it for the Salish Sea region. But no reason we couldn't have the same faith in Northern Cali, and having holy sites from Cali to Canada would make life interesting.
 

Cruxador

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Well the Norse thing comes from 1. A suprisingly large Scandinavian descendant population in rural western Washington ( a result of the prominent fishing and logging industries) and 2. The Puget Sound is one big fjord, and in general an ideal location for transplanting Norse culture and folkways in North America.
None of that really seems like an adequate reason to put a long-dead faith in a place with no real relation to it.

As a bonus they would be able to raid the merchant cities of Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland.
That would definitely be a cool feature to have in the region, but I'd rather get it from native american sources – which also gives us a fair amount of slavery (should include concubinage at least) and the potlatch. Hell, they could BE composed largely of merchant cities, and still be raiders, and it'd fit with the historical incarnation of the culture in addition to being damn fun to play.

The reason I didn't think of the sequoias is that thats further than I envisioned this religion stretching south. I'd thought of it for the Salish Sea region. But no reason we couldn't have the same faith in Northern Cali, and having holy sites from Cali to Canada would make life interesting.
Well, Cascadia stretches from Cali to Canada. But I actually think this sort of faith would make more sense in central and northern cascadia than southern.

I'm of the opinion salvaging a working gun and ammo after 600 years shouldn't even be a thing, but since it's in there anyway, yeah, it does/should.
While I agree that it doesn't make much sense if you think about it too hard, it's pretty damn cool, and I think this is the kind of case where you should be able to bend realism a bit for the sake of fun, so long as it's kept rare. Lord knows it's far from the silliest thing in this mod. If every religion that was silly was cut out, for instance, we'd have about three left.
 
Last edited:

TKFS

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I'm of the opinion salvaging a working gun and ammo after 600 years shouldn't even be a thing, but since it's in there anyway, yeah, it does/should.

Hey, under absolutely perfect circumstances, it would be possible. So I've always figured that since its pretty rare, I can overlook the somewhat silliness.

Edit: I really wish there was some way to tie this to climate haha.
 

EmperorG

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Hey, under absolutely perfect circumstances, it would be possible. So I've always figured that since its pretty rare, I can overlook the somewhat silliness.

Edit: I really wish there was some way to tie this to climate haha.

Plus remember that only a small portion of even the ruling elite of the world have guns, so its not even that common among the 1%.