After Semper Fi - Proposal for a new Add-on

[Chromos]

After Semper Fi - Proposal for a new Add-on - "For the Motherland"

Hi folks, as we are already in getting ideas in this thread:
ORG-gain-changes-sufficient
And after this post:

I really like this Thead....so many good ideas, to make the AI better soon. I doubt much can be made for this patch...as it seems it is close to final Release, after they come back from NY.
And i belive your right Slan....we get announced a new Addon for HoI3 in NY. Hopefully one that focuses on the Landwar. The last was about Invasions and Sea War enhancements. The next should be called "Red Storm" or something like this and focuse on the Big Countries like Russia and China....and the war there. We need much more attrition, hard wheather conditions, Comprehensible supply problems. Maybe even a enhanced supply system.

If that is the focus for the next addon....i think it could enhance the difficulty much...and make most Players happy.

I was thinking of new features I would like to have in that regard in a new Add-on.

An Add-on would give them the time to build the stuff we all talk about.

Starting to do a little summarize from memory:

1) Weather
should be more "realistic" and severe in bad conditions, hindering where it makes sense and do attrition damage to man and material. Mud slowdown movement etc.
Tank breakdown if new material is introduced "too soon", some change to technology? Easy ideas on this one? (A new value "New stuff". Could then also be used for new tactics/doctrines would be altered trough another new value "professionalism" or "stuff mastership")
What about heavy sea conditions(f.e. Blizzards) for ships-> damage..

2) Overall movement:
Make strat. redployment more important.
The railwaysystem is way underused isn't it? Marching should have attrition too. Maybe a new "province building" aside to infra representing main railway system and is needed for strat. redeployment? Normal infra would still be used for nomal moving in provinces. Would give a much deeper operational approach. Supply would flow better/more on railway provinces.. A command to modify the effect of railways and infra by modders.

An option for "forced march" that allow higher speed (time allocated to org or a new value?) and causing way higher attrition also to machines. Tanks are not designed to travel 800km in a row.. The technical logistics would have a bigger impact. A new option for repair/health of units, reliability or just use the attrition value for this.
(It is reported that forced march let up to the half division exhausted in some circumstances. Also half of the vechicle out of service .. IIRC Tiger had to service stop every 25 to 50 Km..)


3) Marching malus:
If a unit is marching or strat. redeploying and is attacked, it should have a big combat modifier malus because it has no battle setup.
Also if it just arrives in a province after strat. redeploy or marching.
A Divison trek was about 15-25 km long, nearly a whole Province in HOI3! So it would need time to prepare for a defence or attack. A similar time penalty like the one we have already in game while attacking.
That would also make local reserves more important.
Gaining Org after marching should be dependend on morale and maybe a new value "dicipline" or "professionalism" or both. Also higher in the initial phase of regain like already proposed by so many others an as in HOI2.
Planes should not loose Org while moving to another base, but when they arrived. They need a downtime for refuling etc., at least..

4) Supply need:
Fighting should cost more supply and intense fighting would cost a lot. You would have to decide where to start intense figthing and were not..
Also supply logistic would become more important again. Weather and mud would be even more painful..

While sitting still or strat. redeploy should cost less, since nothing can brake if it is "sitting on/in a train"..

A option to have Offensive Supply like in HOI2 but applicable to Divisions up to Theatre HQ's! So supply is flowing mostly in that Theatre/direction.
AI could send it after a priority list of amount of enemy troops, heavy fighting or fighting at all.

Maybe then have a modable command for it, so that the idea of "Grand offensive" from the August Storm Mod would come to its full potential.


5) Battles:
Expand the idea of battle events bit more. Make them more important. The tactical advance of the german forces lead to victory over a numeral superior enemy more then once! The battle events seem to have too little effect. They should be "somehow" permanently affect the battles for both sides.

Add the battle screen of "Vicktoria 2" a bit enhanced. Show more a square then a rectangle or maybe the actual province as background and maybe add Province info from the actual province randomly to it. So we can see an abstracted province tactical battle! Division sized.

Add a button "use of Artillery" to reflect the pre bombardement of enemys positions. Or a trigger for permant use of Art on static fronts as some sort of attrition war..
(Could be a also just a new stance that would not move but have the other side attacked..)

6) Statistics:
Add new scroll bars to the statistics so we can see all units from Mods that use more unit types.


Thats for all and for now. I could describe it more in detail, but I guess you all get the overall picture of my ideas.
Also I think, that all is well in the scope of an Add-on, because the ideas are not that far from existing parts of the game, mostly "just adjustments".

I hope to see many more nice ideas!


Kind regards,
Chromos

 

[Pj Fallon]

Some good ideas for realism here.

How about red numbers rising from units in battle or something similar to show us casualties per day. Like in Victoria 2.

 

[Jazumir]

Just want to comment on the railway stuff for now. You suggest some-sort of über-rail superimposed on the normal infra. I´d much rather suggest that the infra we now have, should be distributed in the scenarios more unevenly, so it reflects big roads and rails between major cities better. Right now, most cities have a level or two of infra more than their neighbors. The same should be true for where major railways/autobahnen went through. I am aware, that this is distorting things in the other dimension (north-south, if the road runs west-east for example), but i am willing to take that in order to have those lines of importance on my logistics map.

EDIT: Without further going into the OP´s ideas, there is also still a lot of room for improvement on the UI. For example, unit lists on the left-side (selection-list) need to be scrollable, among a lot of other things, one could do to them. For example, there is the question what to do about troop-hirachy within them. Right now, Corps tend to sit below their divs and armies below all corps. I *think* i´d rather have it sorted top-down: Armies first, then all corps, then all divs (as i play ´emu´-style, using entire corps mostly). But even that doesnt have to be the end of it. You could have the whole present OOB right there: Corps with a ´+´ opening to the divisons, etc., just like in the outliner...

EDIT2: The supply map-mode (if not the system) is in dire need of enhancement as well, i think. Each province got a stock for fuel and supplies, right? Visualize it. Yes, bars on each province, when in supply map-mode, please! As well as arrows of different thickness representing how much goes where. And an enhanced color-code scheme for both. Seperate into fuel and supply map-mode if needed. And while we are at map-modes: Those arent equal. Some change the terrain-display (terrain, simplyfied terrain, ownership, infra) other bring up icons (weather, air, naval...). Seperate them in two (or more) classes, give each class a row on top of the map, and make one of each row active at any one time. Some map-modes needed to be redone for this (would make VC-map-mode an icon-map-mode, not a terrian-map-mode for example, displaying stars or some such instead of coloring provinces) and ´units´ would be another map-mode for an ´iconic´-class. I´d make three classes:
- all-over (both of the other two, using icons and tile-coloring): default (terrain+units), supply, ressources
- iconic (selecting what icons to display): units, weather, air, naval, VCs
- terrain (selecting what the terrain-color-code represents: terrain, simplyfied terrain, ownership, infrastructure, revolt risk

- ´all over´ overrides/untoggles the other two categories. Either an ´all-over´ is active, or a ´terrain´ is active.

- ´iconic´-map-modes are toggles: either one is on, or none is on - if one of them is clicked while an ´all over´ is active, the ´terrian´ defaults to ´terrain´.

- ´terrain´: one option is always active, if no ´all over´ is active. If an ´all over´ is active, when a ´terrain´ is clicked, ´icon´ defaults to ´unit´.

Depending on specific icon-locations, you could have more than one ´iconic´ category.

EDIT3: Only count owned, not controlled VC, towards surrender progress.

 

[Pj Fallon]

Just want to comment on the railway stuff for now. You suggest some-sort of über-rail superimposed on the normal infra. I´d much rather suggest that the infra we now have, should be distributed in the scenarios more unevenly, so it reflects big roads and rails between major cities better. Right now, most cities have a level or two of infra more than their neighbors. The same should be true for where major railways/autobahnen went through. I am aware, that this is distorting things in the other dimension (north-south, if the road runs west-east for example), but i am willing to take that in order to have those lines of importance on my logistics map.

.

Liking it and how about infrastructure provide a monetary boost due to transit time.

 

[Chromos]

Some good ideas for realism here.

How about red numbers rising from units in battle or something similar to show us casualties per day. Like in Victoria 2.

Or a box were the actual losses are shown, so we see how bloody this battle already is?

Just want to comment on the railway stuff for now. You suggest some-sort of über-rail superimposed on the normal infra. I´d much rather suggest that the infra we now have, should be distributed in the scenarios more unevenly, so it reflects big roads and rails between major cities better.

To be more precise then. The railway should also affect strat. redeploy! So you redeploy on this routes only, while you have to move on normal infra. And on normal infra everything you mentioned should be in too.
It is not "only" on supply. Its also about strategy and affect of taking railway knots for movement operation etc..

Hope that I describend it better know.

Kind regards,
Chromos

 

[Pj Fallon]

How about Royle (sp) weddings for monarchist govs which increase money and such and for absolutes can make an alliance or get a trade deal

 

[comsubpac]

How about Royle (sp) weddings for monarchist govs which increase money and such and for absolutes can make an alliance or get a trade deal

that sounds more like EU3.

 

[Pj Fallon]

that sounds more like EU3.

Yes and just like EU 3 there are absolute monarchies so its possible.

How about a relation Map pole.

 

[Cybvep]

I don't we need forced march option and "Artillery Bombardment" (too many provinces, too much micro; I would like to make it more abstract, e.g. there could be a new modifier in unitX.txt which would give attrition damage to enemy units stationed in nearby provinces), but I mostly agree with your points.

Regarding battle events - I wrote about it in "Ideas for Darkest Hour" thread. I will quote myself (...), because those suggestions mostly apply to HOI3, too:

I have some ideas regarding the combat system. Currently battles themselves are rather static with weather, events and daytime being the only "dynamic" factors. IMO too little is happening during battles themselves. This, combined with HOI2's province sizes and province number, results in crippled operational part of the game. I think I may have remedies to such situation.

Create battle "phases" and combine them with battle events. Even EUIII has similar system. The phases would be something like: reconnaissance, frontline fighting, assault, breakthrough, encirclement, ambush etc. Unlike in EUIII, the phases would be cycled dynamically, i.e. it would be affected by force composition of both sides, leaders' skills and traits and battle progress. To illustrate this, an army heavily packed with tanks and skilled leaders and operating on "plains" terrain would have much greater chance of changing the battle phase to "breakthrough" than one with pure infantry and artillery fighting in "forested" terrain. Achieved "breakthrough" phase could result in "encirclement" OR it could mean that the battle phase would change to "counter-attack" if the defenders are well organised and are led by a skilled leader etc.

Adding "reconnaissance" in would be a big one. It would make brigades such as armoured cars (or later - helicopters) and units such as cavalry more useful. Moreover, it would be possible to represent things like radio technology in a better way, because they would help with reconnaissance. While there wouldn't be much fighting taking place, I imagine this battle phase to serve two main purposes:

1) possibility of entering the main battle in a superior position, i.e. in a favourable battle phase (e.g. ambush)
2) possibility of getting a positive combat modifier for X number of combat rounds (diminishing returns).

OK, but wouldn't it mean that battles would become micromanagement hell, with players being forced to constantly pause their games and check battle status? Not necessarily. Currently when two units are fighting, there is a red arrow showing "attacking" status. IMO it should change its colour depending on the battle phase. For example, yellow could mean "reconnaissance", while red would mean "frontline fighting" (main, "standard" battle phase).

 

[comsubpac]

Yes and just like EU 3 there are absolute monarchies so its possible.

How about a relation Map pole.

how many real absolute monarchies do we have in WW2? and how many of them sealed alliances with a marriage?

 

[Pj Fallon]

how many real absolute monarchies do we have in WW2? and how many of them sealed alliances with a marriage?

Okay I don't know. However How many times did France leave the alpine line undefended allowing the Italians to pour through?

This game is pretty sandbox. But I see your point. It was after all just after the 19th centenary where nationalism was born proper. And so on............ Still I say its possible. GOD DAMN IT I WANT A SUCCESSION WAR!!!

 

[joeenochs]

I would love to see that the AoD dev team gets involved in an HOI3 expansion. But I guess Paradox considers it too early
to give their flagship in other hands. My reason is that the days where huge features are developed in HOI3 seem over
and it is now the time for the work on game balance and details. And the AoD team has proven to be good at that.
I would also pay for an expansion with only combat AI improvement if implemented well. But the expansion character will
have to be proven with some new features at least.

 

[comsubpac]

Okay I don't know. However How many times did France leave the alpine line undefended allowing the Italians to pour through?

This game is pretty sandbox. But I see your point. It was after all just after the 19th centenary where nationalism was born proper. And so on............ Still I say its possible. GOD DAMN IT I WANT A SUCCESSION WAR!!!

i think the only real absolute monarchy left in that time is the vatican - and i dont think the pope is good for marriages.

 

[Pj Fallon]

i think the only real absolute monarchy left in that time is the vatican - and i dont think the pope is good for marriages.

Bhutan...................shit wait just googled it to make sure its an constitutionalist monarchy but back then.

Yea but i think one of the balken states is an absolute monarchy. Back then.

 

[Chromos]

I don't we need forced march option and "Artillery Bombardment" (too many provinces, too much micro; I would like to make it more abstract, e.g. there could be a new modifier in unitX.txt which would give attrition damage to enemy units stationed in nearby provinces), but I mostly agree with your points.

Regarding battle events - I wrote about it in "Ideas for Darkest Hour" thread. I will quote myself (...), because those suggestions mostly apply to HOI3, too:
I have some ideas regarding the combat system. Currently battles themselves are rather static with weather, events and daytime being the only "dynamic" factors. IMO too little is happening during battles themselves. This, combined with HOI2's province sizes and province number, results in crippled operational part of the game. I think I may have remedies to such situation.

Create battle "phases" and combine them with battle events. Even EUIII has similar system. The phases would be something like: reconnaissance, frontline fighting, assault, breakthrough, encirclement, ambush etc. Unlike in EUIII, the phases would be cycled dynamically, i.e. it would be affected by force composition of both sides, leaders' skills and traits and battle progress. To illustrate this, an army heavily packed with tanks and skilled leaders and operating on "plains" terrain would have much greater chance of changing the battle phase to "breakthrough" than one with pure infantry and artillery fighting in "forested" terrain. Achieved "breakthrough" phase could result in "encirclement" OR it could mean that the battle phase would change to "counter-attack" if the defenders are well organised and are led by a skilled leader etc.

Adding "reconnaissance" in would be a big one. It would make brigades such as armoured cars (or later - helicopters) and units such as cavalry more useful. Moreover, it would be possible to represent things like radio technology in a better way, because they would help with reconnaissance. While there wouldn't be much fighting taking place, I imagine this battle phase to serve two main purposes:

1) possibility of entering the main battle in a superior position, i.e. in a favourable battle phase (e.g. ambush)
2) possibility of getting a positive combat modifier for X number of combat rounds (diminishing returns).

OK, but wouldn't it mean that battles would become micromanagement hell, with players being forced to constantly pause their games and check battle status? Not necessarily. Currently when two units are fighting, there is a red arrow showing "attacking" status. IMO it should change its colour depending on the battle phase. For example, yellow could mean "reconnaissance", while red would mean "frontline fighting" (main, "standard" battle phase).

If you like to have it more abstract but less micro, what is then with the idea of a new stance? You can switch it on/off with ease on HQ's level?
Have it on all time is a little overstressed IMHO.

I like your suggestions of a battle system. If it is already somehow like that in EU3 then it could maybe integrated with not such big time invest.
It is similar to what I wanted to propose with the extended battle-event system.

Combined with some animated combat progress box of that province it would be really nice to see ingame!

To the wedding between royals.
I think that is more of a Diplomatic enhancement. But as it is in EU3 already should be more easily implemented if some people want it..

As this is somekind of brainstorming, don't be shy to suggest your ideas!

Kind regards,
Chromos

 

[unmerged(245758)]

A couple minor UI things that I think would be rather useful:

*A neutrality value in the top left information bar. Just so that you don't have to go into the intelligence screen to check it most of the time.

*A minor alteration to the unit counters for different HQs so you can quickly see who belongs to what when in a big stack (i.e. you have already selected a HQ unit it 'lightened' to show its selected, then you go to mouse over a stack and it counter splits like;

|
| |
| | |
| | | |________
| | |________
| |________ <--------Then for instance this one is a highlighted
|________


An you can directly click on it to select it, rather than having to cycle through each of the counters in the stack watching the commander unit above it.


*Pop-ups
Whenever any nation declares war on another nation having a pop-up telling you would be useful. Currently you do not appear to get this.

*On units a 'logistics unit', possibly combined with engineers, that increases supply throughput in the province and those surrounding it, and if it is stationary increases the supply capacity of the province.

Therefore not only do you build up for an offensive with your combat troops, but you also need to maintain your lines of logistics, therefore you could represent your 'railways' by putting logistics corps all along a line of infrastructure. The units therefore being the trains.

*I second weather improvements

*I also second the 'supply arrows' for 'on land' operations, like the sealane supply arrows, showing where supplies are going and how much is going.

 

[unmerged(106255)]

1) Weather - The temperature map needs to be redone to put some snow on the ground in Europe and China. A larger temperature gradient between seasons and a longer muddy period would also improve the game. Stronger winter penalties should be applied to the attacker and perhaps a bonus for the defender so the units will tend to settle in for bad weather and give the defender time to recuperate.

2) Strat deployment - Ideally, a unit doing this will wait in it's province for a day or two to represent boarding the train. Then they will zip to where ever they need to go much faster than they do now, and disembark at their destination with little to no org. If they are attacked on the way, they take massive str damage like in HOI2.

4) Supply - Attacking units should use more supply, but we don't really need an "offensive supply" button like in HOI2. But more importantly, the supply mechanics should be revamped before messing with supply consumption. As it is now, increasing the supply needed for an attacking unit would likely break up your entire supply network for the theater. Supply should be carried on the units individually instead of the province, so the consumption of one unit doesn't affect the supply condition of another unit hundreds of miles away.

 

[Chromos]

Hi Gensui Yamamoto,
that point:

*Pop-ups
Whenever any nation declares war on another nation having a pop-up telling you would be useful. Currently you do not appear to get this.

Is already in the game. Just change the message settings setup in the menue ingame, and check "When a nation declare war on another nation".

Knd regards,
Chromos

 

[Jazumir]

Playing NatChi: My allies are under FOW, where my troops arent present. This is probably due to us all not being in any faction. Please fix this. Beyond this: Make allied units (faction or not) selectable (some key+drag/click - no orders allowed), please.

Give a bonus to recon in provinces regarding infra and possibly IC, too. Say, +1 always. So if recon in a province is 0, make it 1 for infra, so that we can get a better idea about the levels of the most obvous (in RL) things. This new recon-bonus should be bumped to, say +5, when not in war with the province-controller - as you could just send ´tourists´ over to see things like infra and IC (not troops/AA...) during peace-time. When war between two nation is declared, the bonus should shrink with time, not abprubtly vanish, as you(r guys) remember what´s been there not too long ago and can make estimates based on that (this is a simple solution to a complex problem), say by 1 every two months or so. Sure, you could take notes during peacetime instead, but seriously...

 

[unmerged(54975)]

Id like an easy way to cancel orders for air units. Such as when selecting several wings each unit that has orders gets a bar under it on the left side of the screen. The bar shows its current mission with a little cross next to it to cancel.

Because at the moment it is a pain having to go through each unit to see if it has an order and if it is still relevant.