After Annexing Mexico Should I Free Vassals
- Thread starter ssuperflash1
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It could be a good idea as you would get free cores from reannexation. They should also be your religion and convert the provinces for you. It just takes a while to annex since it would be considered overseas, unless your capitol is in North America.
I have like 10,000 soliders over there and am working on cervting. Is it possible I could just wait it out, maybe fight some rebsl and wait till Mexico is good and Cathlic?
Yes. Wait it out. Much better.
If you release the vassals. Yes, the vassals will be Catholic, and you can re-annex them later, and they might even convert a few provinces for you. But you'll have a precious diplomatic slot occupied for a couple of decades and more importantly, you lose the overseas/pagan discount you normally get for culture conversion. Not sure if that's a bug or not, but it was still the case last time I checked. You keep the discount if you force vassalize and annex them while they're still pagan, but you seem to lose it if you release them and re-annex them later. No idea why.
Oh shit. 16 units rose up in Mexico. I immedite freed Maya, I don't know why. Is there anything I can do?
The rebels spawn with the best unit types for your tech level, and with the number of provinces in Mexico that have terrain modifiers, one can end up in a spot of bother, at least if they aren't using mercs.
If you have a good general you should still be able to crush them handily. The problem is if they just sit there on mountain terrain. If that's the case you may need to recruit more men.
In the late 1500s I use a stack of 8k, which is 7k infantry, 1k artillery and no general, set to Hunt Rebels. This will crush every rebellion, and the battles aren't even close. I don't even look, I just get the popup "Rebels in.." then a few seconds later "Battle won."
In total I have two 8k stacks, one for North America (in the Creek/Shawnee area), one for South America (in the middle of the Aztec area.)
EDIT: I have very high morale, which allows me to have only 8k stacks in South/Central Americas. This might be cutting it fine unless you have morale of 6.5+ as I do (100 Prestige, 80+ Army Tradition, 25% Defensiveness bonus, usually 10% Adviser bonus).
The 8/0/1 stack should always be fine for North America. But for South/Central, a more general purpose stack would be 10/0/2, or 8/0/4 if you can afford it and want to be safe.
It's still well worth not releasing any of these nations as vassals, even with bigger stacks required. You should core these provinces eventually, then the rebellions go away. Note for South/Central Americas, you must core them before 1644 unless you're playing with my Cores Never Expire bug; else all the cores will disappear and you'll instantly get full OE, and huge rebellions.
Do not release as vassal any Americas nation:
In total I have two 8k stacks, one for North America (in the Creek/Shawnee area), one for South America (in the middle of the Aztec area.)
EDIT: I have very high morale, which allows me to have only 8k stacks in South/Central Americas. This might be cutting it fine unless you have morale of 6.5+ as I do (100 Prestige, 80+ Army Tradition, 25% Defensiveness bonus, usually 10% Adviser bonus).
The 8/0/1 stack should always be fine for North America. But for South/Central, a more general purpose stack would be 10/0/2, or 8/0/4 if you can afford it and want to be safe.
It's still well worth not releasing any of these nations as vassals, even with bigger stacks required. You should core these provinces eventually, then the rebellions go away. Note for South/Central Americas, you must core them before 1644 unless you're playing with my Cores Never Expire bug; else all the cores will disappear and you'll instantly get full OE, and huge rebellions.
Do not release as vassal any Americas nation:
- You want the gold income
- You want the tariff income
- You want the Trade Goods bonuses
- You want the Trade Power
- If you're Catholic, you want to religiously convert every province to gain +5 Papal Influence per province
- which totals nearly 250 for the whole of the Americas
- that's 5-10 years' worth, and is enough to make you Curia Controller, and stay Controller, for decades to come.
- Religious conversion is very quick and easy - around 7 months usually for me as a Catholic with a couple of +Missionary strength bonuses
- Coring costs are cheap
- The rebellions are trivial
- You most certainly don't want to use up DipRel slots to take away all of the above benefits
- The 50% tax income you get from a vassal will be a small fraction of the income you make directly
- And worst case, those vassals will end up losing wars for you, especially if you fight Portugal or Spain - they'll land in the Americas, thrash all your terrible Americas vassals, but build up big WS in the process.
- See this thread for details on that happening to someone: Spain thinks they're winning this war because they beat up Iroquis 40 years ago.
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A stack of 8k infantry isn't sufficient to deal with rebels in Mexico, though, unless you get lucky and either never get rebels spawning in mountain provinces or just not getting the terrain penalty. Unless you know something I don't know here..
Not that I'm necessarily advocating releasing those vassals, but if you didn't know about the bug regarding annexing the Aztecs beforehand and thus didn't prepare accordingly.. it might be an idea worth considering.
A stack of 8k infantry isn't sufficient to deal with rebels in Mexico, though, unless you get lucky and either never get rebels spawning in mountain provinces or just not getting the terrain penalty. Unless you know something I don't know here..
OK I was slightly wrong, it's actually 7k infantry and 1k artillery, I forgot about the art.
Nonetheless, the battles aren't particularly close. So.. maybe I do know something you don't?
Nah, probably not - I just emphasise Morale, with Defensiveness +25%, I usually have the +10% adviser, always 100 Prestige. This is 1604, MilTech 15, Maurician Infantry. As you can see, the battle ends because of Morale, not losses. As is almost always the case - Morale is king!
Though it's not absolutely required. For the lulz I deleted the art and tested some rebellions in Mexico using only 7k infantry.
I still won every battle (in the hills/mountains), though I couldn't have taken many battles in a row without a chance to recover first:
OK I was slightly wrong, it's actually 7k infantry and 1k artillery, I forgot about the art.
Nonetheless, the battles aren't particularly close. So.. maybe I do know something you don't?
This is 1604, MilTech 15, Maurician Infantry. As you can see, the battle ends because of Morale, not losses. As is almost always the case - Morale is king!
There's the problem right there, you're fighting peasants - they are easy as pie, I agree.
If you'll allow it, I'll rephrase and say it isn't sufficient in the cases where you outright annex the Aztecs, because of the bug*. You'll be running into nationalist (or patriot, I forget which - tired - both have 20% more morale than peasants and also utilise generals as well) rebels more likely, and more often, as well as in larger numbers due to the increased revolt risk from OE. That would be a fair statement to make, no?
*I could be wrong, but I imagine that this is the case with the OP, given the size of the rebel stack on Mexico and other problems.
Yeah fair enough. And I was going to come back and edit to say that while this is working OK for me, it does require high morale, so it'd be wrong for me to recommend 8k generally for the South/Central Americas.
I think 10/0/2 would be fine in most circumstances for South/Central Americas. 8/0/4 would be better, though a bit more expensive.
I'll edit my post accordingly.
So you think that the OP has lost all the Aztec cores and is facing OE? Maybe, though I didn't read it like that - I always face rebellions all over the Americas until I've cored them myself, but it's just the easy Peasant rebellions as I showed. I think if he had high OE he'd have mentioned he's got rebellions all over his entire nation.
(Note that if he has lost the cores, then he can't Release as Vassal anyway. He has no options other than to core them all immediately and put up with OE for the 7-odd years it takes.)
No offense but isn't it somewhat ridiculous that 15,000 soldiers, not peaseants but nobles, rose up? How the hell did they get so many people. That's bigger than my entire army in Castille.
Also they wanted a Noble Republic. I can only assume that's a terrible bug. And they were animist. Something is going wrong here. :glare:
Also they wanted a Noble Republic. I can only assume that's a terrible bug. And they were animist. Something is going wrong here. :glare:
Not a bug that rebellions in general can be that large, normal behaviour. Yes it looks odd. Has been discussed often before.
Is it after 1644? Do you have massive Overextension? Check via the Stability interface screen. Then check some of the South/Central American provinces and see if there are no cores on those provinces at all.
If so then you have hit a bug - the Disappearing Cores bug, as detailed here.
If that's happened, then for future reference (at least until Patch 1.4 comes out on the 14th), make sure you Full Annex, and then core all South/Central Americas provinces before 1644.