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tekjunkie28

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I still cannot understand how everything works together. I am playing an Ottoman IM game and I was doing fine. I then declared war on Venice and after that it went down hill.

List of crap that my country now has..
bankruptcy
peasants war
devshirme system
provincial govt system
obsolete forces
enforce serfdom
reduced tax income

I'm literally being carved up by the Mamluks and Venice. I don't remember being this bad. My other IM game was Portugal and ive seem to have done fine.
 

RedFish

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In a game with as many variables as EU4, I don't think a quick summary of your nation's current state will really enable people to tell you the points where things went wrong.
 

oblio-

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tekjunkie28

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LOL things when wrong when I had the war with Venice. I captured there province Kosovo which was the war goal but they had me almost entirely blockaded. France came to there aid. I actually ended up peacing out for some of there ducats. Right before that the Mamluks declared on me and ravaged me. I was forced to release 2 countries and have war reparations while also loosing one maybe 2 of my provinces. Then after all that bankruptcy hit me and the peasants war. I have no troops or money. They keep going to war and carving me up like a turkey in the south. Bosnia has also smells the scent of blood and taken all of the north. and Venice now declared a 3rd time and taken everything to the east like achaea. The year is 1544 and Im pretty much toast at this point. If i get declared again then its likely this game is over. I went from getting the respected achievement to being -3 stab -100 prestige -100 legit and 9 forcelimit.
 

tekjunkie28

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I have a hard time declaring war and being able to tell if its goign to be successful. I typically dont declare on anyone with an ally. How do you all determine when and where to go to war and what actions to take. Im despartely trying to improve relations right now.
 

Oyubi

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Ottomans should normally go after the balkans, towards where Persia will be (Timurids) and towards the Mamlukes. One quick 1 v 1 war against the Mamlukes where you take a load of Syria is enough to tip things massively in your favour. You get missions for a lot of these places that give claims so you can grow quite quickly. Once you have more income and men you can go after the tougher european nations.

Fighting France is never really worth it unless you're looking to weaken the French themselves. You can always wait around and ignore Venice until they end the French alliance or until you're much stronger and don't need to care. If you are going to fight France you may want to get a better navy. They won't get land access to you so they have to land troops. Sink their navy and they're useless. Its sometimes possible to wipe of most of Venice's navy by ambushing it e.g. put your whole navy on one of the balkan area ports then come out and attack the moment the venetian navy passes by.

When determining if you should go to war you can check the ledger to see the enemies income and troops numbers. Also consider their tech type since Western gradually gets better than Ottomans although you start with a slight advantage. Generally you can take one great power and a few smaller guys at a time as long as you hit them while they're troops are divided and whittle them down before going on the offensive. However, you should look at what else you could be doing and then decide which gives a better reward for the effort e.g. a short war against a tribe for a few territories or a long war against a great power for Kosovo. Usually bullying the little guy gives the better reward in the early game.
 

Thrake

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Early on, you should go for easy wars, so indeed, the Balkans and beyliks are the way to go. Further into the game, your awesome leaders will allow you to be ahead of time of non westerners in mil tech, and probably a small advantage of westerners during a couple of months. Basically, I usually advise to dip into Europe early on because you strat with awesome leaders. Early on, mil tech advantage (those giving +tactics) are a massive advantage and even a single fight is enough to get the edge (it's not uncommon to whipe them), so check your neighbours rulers mil stats and tech to plan your wars. Unless you have a poor general or are really outnumbered, you should aim to take bits of Europe. Also, an early beating of Poland if only for breaking their PU (you need to make them down in negative prestige when their leader is old).

Once your god rulers and heir died, then I would start expanding East, because Mamlukes will be terribly behind in tech and even later, hordes will be pushing bags. Past that, no one should be up to threaten you unless you really mess with coalitions.
 

oblio-

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Well im at war agian, i have no troops and my second bankruptcy is looming...

how do you come back from somethign like this?
By listening to the friendly forum folk (FFF) and also by telling us those things we asked for ;)

Usually bullying the little guy gives the better reward in the early game.
You mean it always gives the best reward. Iraq, Serbia, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Nicaragua, the list is endless. Meanwhile "pick on someone your own size" can probably be counted without taking the shoes off :p
 

Thrake

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You mean it always gives the best reward. Iraq, Serbia, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Nicaragua, the list is endless. Meanwhile "pick on someone your own size" can probably be counted without taking the shoes off :p

One should always be up for an opportunistic war. It's a cheap way to cripple ones rivals for the rest of the game.
 

katagua

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Seems like you are having trouble with the 1.8 patch new mechanics. Havent played that much yet, but to me it seems from my Sweden game, that Ottoman got A LOT harder. Many non-primary culture, non-state religion provinces. So rebels are constantly looming. When your manpower got low vs Venice/France you trigger the possibility for Peasant war (look it up in the wiki what triggers are).
Being low on manpower was the reason the Mamluks took their chance. Paying war reparations costs you, rebels increase nationalism/reduce tax income, which makes your income go down, so you cant build units etc etc.
My best advice would be: get an ally to scare off your biggest threats, increase autonomy in the provinces with unrest, kick advisors out.
All you need at this moment is as low as possible revolt risk and some kind of an army. Get warexhaustion down as fast as possible and raise stability to get the event to get out of the peasant war.
If you are a diehard player you will continue and learn from this, but you will be set back for 50 years probably. You could also restart...
 

Tpre022

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Yeah, I would go ahead and restart. YMMV, but I don't find desperately struggling to make a comeback much fun. The AI is fairly smart about kicking you when you're down, so a badly lost war often means a few more people will declare on you while you're weak.

I've played quite a bit of Ottomans (although not in 1.8 yet), I recommend expanding east first. Stomp the Byzantines, then focus on the small Turkish countries, then Aq and Qara, Mamlukes, Georgia, and after that you can have 3 expansion fronts you rotate between - into the hordes to the north, and Hejaz and the Middle East, and Persia and the Timurids. When you finish the Mamlukes you can expand out over the north African coast as well.

Admin is a good first idea imo, then you can lean on mercenaries when your manpower gets low and stay at war a lot. Innovative for that little bit of -war exhaustion is really good as well. Maybe those two first then humanism, to help with revolts? I don't think it's worth getting a military idea early. If you are struggling with battles, take more time between wars and overwhelm your enemies with numbers.
 
U

Ultrix Prime

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I still cannot understand how everything works together. I am playing an Ottoman IM game and I was doing fine. I then declared war on Venice and after that it went down hill.

List of crap that my country now has..
bankruptcy
peasants war
devshirme system
provincial govt system
obsolete forces
enforce serfdom
reduced tax income

I'm literally being carved up by the Mamluks and Venice. I don't remember being this bad. My other IM game was Portugal and ive seem to have done fine.

The Ottomans are easily destroyed if you play them too aggressively in *1* direction.

So, early game wars with Venice are a no no.

At most, grab up Byzantium and let that settle a bit while diplo-vassalizing 1/2/3 of your eastern core countries. Then go after someone in the east once a good 10 or so years of AE have worn down from your conquest in the West.

AE is what kills you as the Ottos. You have all this money, army, buffs, big navy, can hire up advisors at the start and go to town. But, you have to spread the wars out across fronts. This is actually, given how AE works, a big advantage because the Ottos actually *have* two fronts. So basically, while AE is clocking down on one front, go fight a war on another front and vice-versa. Better relations over time buffs help with this as well through advisor or ideas, your preference (both is good).

Objectively, the Ottos can build up by simply securing Constantinople, the Greek isles and their Eastern cores and then let things settle down - you should spread that out nonetheless. Once you have huge manpower numbers and some tec over your eastern opponents, basically a time comes when all of the East and Middle East in a coalition against you won't matter. But to get there takes a bit of patience and planning.

One huge advantage, historical or no, is that it's fairly easy while you're diddling a bit in the west to secure an alliance and marriage with Timi. Once you have that, just use Timi to soak up the damage by doing most of the fighting while you stand back and watch and then go in for the kill and the provinces thereafter.

In almost any/every set of recommendations you see in the forums and wiki, there is a, I like to think of it as "youthful exuberance" wherein attack attack attack non-stop is kind of the them. With the Ottos, simply getting some vassals going and later annexing them and grabbing a few cores back puts you into an economic and military position such that you are only getting stronger. In fact, the only thing that can stop you as Ottos is if you help your Western enemies by organizing them into a coalition against you with too much AE. So in opposition to what you'll more typically see here, leave Bosnia, Serbia, etc completely alone. Let them fight it out and have a Bos or Serb blob between you and the west and let the Balkans sort of boil amongst themselves. If you do not make moves to overly tick off the West, it will fairly quickly devolve into fights over chopping up Poland, scuffling for the Balkans, Russians beating on Lithuania's door, France roflstomping Austria, Venice breaking free and getting into Wars with Northern Italy HRE folks and so on.

Another key is this - if Austria hasn't rivaled Venice at the start of the game and it's Ironman, restart. As long as Austria and Venice are rivaled, there will be a Venetian Franco alliance that more or less makes the HRE a mess and you can happily proceed to take all of North and Eastern Africa, the Middle East and India.

With all of the money you get by simply having trade roll into Constantinople, you're easily sitting as #1 in income in the world by a huge margin giving you level 3 advisors across the board, which is an average 50% more mps versus your base numbers such that you are at parity with and/or exceed the Western powers across the board without ever Westernizing (you can typically westernize while you continue to declare and fight wars to the East if you choose). Gobbling up Russia during the late 1500s and 1600s is also nice as well.

But the key is always, do not get the West interested in attacking you through AE. Do that 1 thing well and the rest of the world is your oyster and when the late 17th century rolls around, go roflstomp the HRE who cannot really do anything about it. The Ottos are one of the few countries that can easily conquer their way to 500k manpower and 200 force limit without bothering to get ideas for either.
 

GoffBall

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In 1.8, one of the best things that I made use of as MING is vassal state a lot of weak countries near me instead of invading. In a span of 100 years I more or less annex the whole lot of them and receive no penalties other than converting religion and diplomatic reputation against my existing vassals.