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unmerged(173762)

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I'm brand new the game and having a hard time with some stuff. First, plots only seem to do anything if it has over 120% backing which seems excessive. Second, in my entire kingdom (Denmark) I can only raise just over 3000 levies which seems pathetically low compared to everyone else, thus requiring me to constantly hire mercs when supporting my allies Hungary and Poland. Third, Italy all the way to the alps (including Rome) is conquered by an array of Muslim nations. Fourth, I've just excommunicated by the church thanks to Sweden for apparently no reason what so ever. Fifth, instead of fighting the Muslims the HRE is simply conquering all of her neighbors including my former holdings of lubeck and Holstein which I cannot take back unless I attack the the entire HRE.

Any advice, especially when dealing with the HRE as their is constantly kingdoms trying to break free but they eventually get squashed. Is there any way other than fueling dissent to support a breakup of the HRE?
 

justin6477

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Denmark's initial levies are low, but it'll be quite rich as the game progresses. Try and grab Lubeck, Mecklenburg, and Pommerania as soon as you can. Also, be sure to break treaties with Pagans, it won't cause you any harm. And of course, if they revolt, try and pry the rest of ducal Holstein off of the HRE. Or if the HRE is facing a massive revolt, try and to pry them off directly. Tech spreads by contact, so your control of the Oresund will allow tech to spread from most of your provinces to the Pommeranian lands you conquer.

Excommunication will happen just because. It's a facet of the game. Personally, I wish it gave you something like an insult CB against whoever arranged your excommunication.

As for the Muslims, that also happens. I recommend starting later in the game, just before the 1st Crusade happens is perfect. The fatimids are much weaker in the 1080s.

edit: Also, build cities and only cities.
 

lemonsquid

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Be sure to upgrade your holdings buildings, your castles basically(so that your levy increases). And as stated in an above post, try and take away the ducal title of holstein from the Germans, the Emperor will use this to expand the domain, if you take a look at de jure empire you will find that holstein is Scandinavian, so try to take the two counties in the HRE if they are in a civil war of some sort to prevent further attacks. HRE tends to spread through its de jure first, which is where those pagans in pommerania are, so eventually HRE will take them. As for that excommunication it is bound to happen, and obviously you know who your enemy is(damned swedes!:laugh:) just be sure to keep up your piety and relations with the Pope, it should help prevent excommunications.

The muslims first target is Sicily and so on for Jihad(if Jeruselum is still under muslim control), so most likely a future crusade will take it back, it all depends on the situation of the middle east
 

tnick0225

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I personally would't hire mercs to help my allies, mostly because I doubt they'd waste their money helping me. Other than that Justin's advice is good.

You will get excommed its just an annoying part of the game that happens, sometimes it helps to have Papal investiture as a law since it boosts your relations with the pope therefore may help prevent further excommunications.

It's hard to fight the HRE unless your a blob, so I'd honestly look north to Sweden they seem to be pretty chaotic and unstable throughout a lot of this game, so I would imagine you could pick up quite a few territories going that rout. You could also look to England as well if your feeling lucky and ambitious. But instead of looking south towards where the HRE is I think if I played Denmark I'd look North and be eyeing Sweden like a hungry wolf.
 

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Most of the time, when my ally calls me to war, I do not even send troops. Don't spend gold hiring mercenaries to help allies. Spend it on your holdings to increase your income or levies instead. As Denmark you are not particularly weak. You should look to expand into heathen lands using the holy war CB. You should also try to make allies by marrying your daughters to the sons of local rulers. In particular, you should always try to make and keep an alliance with the HRE. And whenever they call you to war always accept so that they have a high opinion of you. That way they won't invade you. You don't have to actually send troops, the HRE will almost always win every war they get in anyway. With an alliance with the HRE you can call them to war and take Finland and Karelia easily. As for Sweden asking the pope to excommunicate you, they may be hoping to take your lands. Try to keep the pope's opinion high. You can do this by sending your chaplain to improve relations with the pope. You can also groom your rulers so that they have positive traits that increases church opinion. Also, it might be possible that Sweden does not like you because you joined your allies wars against them.
 

knppel

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Having not played Denmark yet, I might say in general the 1066 situation can turn out very tricky -if the HRE manages to beat said muslims, probably the Fatimid Sultanate of Egypt, off their borders when they aim to invade them, they will simply eat around the grey blob until they can outnumber them with local troops (I've seen Muslim Hungary and Poland in 1120, done by the AI).

For the 1066 I currently use to play the first 30 years quickly, check if the Fatimids reach Greece and Sicily in that time, and if they do, leave the game be and start a new one (yes, I'm serious on that one. Most of the time this happens before you can build anything up in 1066, so why bother. Sometimes it is funny though, I got vassalized as Habsburg King of Burgundy by a Fatimid invasion once for example)
Alternatives: Play the HRE or Byzantines- only nations in 1066 strong enough to fight against the blobbing Egyptians, or choose a later start date -1081 does very well here as it makes the said Egypts having a 15 years older Sultan, whose reign of conquer until the sucession crisis will be way shorter then in 1066, while the Byzantines are smaller but more stable and have an awesome ruler.

As for the tricky Holstein situation: unless the HRE is in trouble and you have a really strong alliance at hand (like, Poland AND France at least), your best shot is indeed to sow dissent on the Duke of Holstein, if the Kaiser has appointed one (holding two out of four of Holstein's de jure, it is usually amongst the first Duchies Heinrich Salian creates , along with Upper Burgundy), wait until he is part of any kind of revolt, and then press your claims on him quickly while the revolt is going on, and hope he's not also owning like some bunch of land in Italy or such which forces you to march there to finish your warscore.

As for Denmark and the Scandinavian 1066 situation in general: You might have noticed your neighbours (usually mainly Norway, Poland and the HRE) gobbling themselves up eastwards with holy wars against the Pagan rulers. The Pagans are no match once you have figured out how and when to declare a war- in this case, once all the Chieftains rallied up to defend against someone else's Holy War (preferably the HRE).
Carefully overwatch who is waging war against whom all the time.
The Catholic rulers tend to declare Holy wars on the Pagans, which in return gang upto defend their brothers in faith.
So, what is it you do now?

As soon as a Holy War is declared, you wait for the Chieftains to call each other in for the defense. Once this happened (doesn't take more then 2 months until most important leaders that are at peace joined) your fleet is sent out to scout the shores, for inland provinces use your spymaster (gives a sight range of 1 province) or chancellor (gives vision in the province he stands in, at least).
Now declare war on one of the poor Chieftains that just sent his army as far away as possible from home.
Use your navy to move your army quickly (Literally, NEVER let your soldiers walk!) and ship over your men. As the Pagans have already teamed up in the other holy war, he cannot call in any help, and only his army will begin to run home as fast as possible to defend against you.
Most of the Pagans (except Mecklenburg) cannot put up 3000 men at the beginning, so as long as the Pagans do not team up, you can just siege them down and take the provinces for free more or less.
Most important thing is to carefully check out how many of the pagans are already defending in holy wars- if you are the first one to declare and they team up on you, they can bring up to 7000 men combined tribespower.

Oh yeah as for excommunication, just had it four times in a row as Poland (epic game, Boleslaw died in hunting accident in 1066 and I got to play the cripple, but with all the land) and all the time HRE excommúnication war. You better have heirs ready.

Also is it normal it says "died a natural death" for excommunicated rulers? Don't remember that from earlier versions
 

unmerged(173762)

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Just a little more detail. It's 1115 and the baltic has already been carved up between Poland, Sweden, HRE and myself. I have three counties with Poland having a majority of the baltic. My personal holdings are strong, upgraded but like I wrote earlier I am often supporting both Hungary (my sister is the queen and successor is my nephew) and Poland (niece is queen) as they are constantly fighting for the lives either through civil war or a very aggressive and strong Rus. As for Sweden we have always had good relations with myself even helping the king during the norths uprising. The issue up north is that Norway is very strong, allied with Rus and holds half of the very split up Britain. I had good relations with the HRE prior to there out of the blue war to take Holstein and lubeck. The HRE controls most of France and is really the only nation that can stand against the Muslims in Europe but is always crushing rising kingdoms within itself (Bavaria has tried to get independence 4 times already) and expanding west. My primary goal is to really facilitate a breakup of the HRE. As for going after Sweden, sure but I would have to fabricate a claim which takes awhile right?

It just seems silly that I'm being excommunicated when Rome has been in Muslim hands for 20 years :S
 

unmerged(173762)

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Also who can vote in a elective succession as I always have the rulers of Brunswick and Holstein nominating themselves with Bornholm (buggers) usually supporting them.

EDIT: Also does the HRE ever really breakup on its own?
 

knppel

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Vote in election: every Title holder of the lower rank inside the de jure territory of the title (so for Kingdom of Denmark, the Dukes of Slesvig, Holstein, and these other two Duchies, Sjalleand and Skane I believe). Hold two of the Duchy titles and you can give out 50% of the votes and overrate the others as you are King to solve this issue.

Also before you help out your allies with all your force, look closely what kind of war are they fighting: Would it cost their power/life, or is it some silly issue about Crown Authority or Seniority Succession (which you could maybe even benefit from some day if your house is on their throne). Also, keep in mind that you having joined their war does not necessarily mean you have to send your troops now- you can play it the proper diplomatic way and simply take the 100 prestige hit for the lost war of an ally instead of the prestige hit to decline the call for war.

As for the excommunication, you could build a church (in a vassal's county!) and grant it to the pope- specially if he holds no land this should please him enough to lift the excommunication. Maybe there is also a crusade running- in this case simply join in ) and wait until it is lost, if you have no men to spare) to get back in the church.

Or, go in the religion window and search a priest that likes you more then the pope (gift money if needed, or even grant a county).
Once his relation to you is better then to the pope, a small button on the right gets enabled, called "Make anti-Pope". Hit that and have fun:rolleyes: (keep an eye on the religious authoirty though once you do it)
 

Battle bunny

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Also who can vote in a elective succession as I always have the rulers of Brunswick and Holstein nominating themselves with Bornholm (buggers) usually supporting them.

EDIT: Also does the HRE ever really breakup on its own?

I don't remember it breaking up in Vanilla. In CK2+, it does all the time, and once it diminished so much from all the separatist revolts the imperial title was abolished (which happens if its realm size gets reduced too much), so if you want it to break up, try it out.
 

crimson_king

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I've played somewhere between 10-15 games, and never seen the HRE break up.
The closest it's ever came was after Paradox added faction revolts.
But it wasn't permanent.
In short, good luck trying to break them.
P.S. That's why my current game, I'm playing as them.
 

tnick0225

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I've played somewhere between 10-15 games, and never seen the HRE break up.
The closest it's ever came was after Paradox added faction revolts.
But it wasn't permanent.
In short, good luck trying to break them.
P.S. That's why my current game, I'm playing as them.

Lol if you can't beat em join em :)
 

unmerged(608717)

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Not really an answer to your questions that have been anyway answered, but just my 2 cents: I, as a fairly new player, have found a great way to get an easy start to the game is actually start as a Duke within HRE. You're very unlikely to be bothered by any off the other stately neighbours, but can build your duchy/kingdom in fairly peaceful conditions. If the crown laws dont allow you to wage your own wars against your fellow duke neighbours - which you will of course want to do! - just wait for the numerous civil wars that will come and go for the easy picking on the rebellers.

This gives you a lot of time to really concentrate on building strength, and you can easily get independent later on, if that's what you want.
 

NewbieOne

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I'm brand new the game and having a hard time with some stuff. First, plots only seem to do anything if it has over 120% backing which seems excessive.

You need to look in your intrigue tab, the same place where you have feasts, summer fairs and the like, and where tournaments appear. Plots make the appropriate decisions show at the top, sometimes with variety according to plot power/number of supporters (at least the claim-fabricating ones). You may sometimes indeed have no decision with >100% plot power merely on account of insufficient number of supporters.

Second, in my entire kingdom (Denmark) I can only raise just over 3000 levies which seems pathetically low compared to everyone else, thus requiring me to constantly hire mercs when supporting my allies Hungary and Poland.

It's possible the other dudes hire mercs too or have more land or higher crown authority. You may need to tighten your belt, upgrade the cash-generating buildings in your castles to enhance your income base (castle village => town => city etc., then wooden palisade => low stone wall => medium stone wall etc.), possibly jump-start your mayors (in other words get them a market or port with your royal money so that they start earning their own money faster and can start upgrading), get monastic schools in place when able (to support tech development, as they have the effect of a university while costing 1/3 of the price) with stress on your designated capital (the level of certain techs in the capital affects a lot of things). Marry your heirs well (meaning a queen regnant or a duchess with a lot of land for your demesne or a countess with 2-3 holdings if it somehow makes sense). When you have the cash, start upgrading your baronies but be economical about it. Basically think in terms of investment return. Get the lowest-tier troop-producing buildings first. Once it has begun to make sense, get the buildings which improve your levy percentage (wall does that, along with tax, by the way, although by a small margin but then a wall isn't normally expensive). If you want to play with your cultural buildings make sure that your own culture doesn't change. This means being careful about two things: 1) tutors, 2) landed wives (for which reason it could be worth it to give your son a barony just before "betrothed can marry" hits). Or else cultural buildings disappear when culture changes.

Income is extremely important here, whether you want to upgrade and rely on your own troops, or rely on your mercs. Monastic schools are important because you can get them early and +20% tech bonus for much of the entire game is great to have. A lot of technologies improve your troops and also a lot open new buildings (means you get to build your cash-generating upgrades faster) or increase the size of demesne you can have without negative effects, or improve your rate of gaining prestige or piety. Gold and tech are great things to have. If you handle it well, it's possible for a one-province ruler to challenge the King of England and win, for example. Denmark is extremely well predisposed here because it has ports everywhere. One's hard-pressed to find a Danish province that isn't a port. Ports make your cities richer. Just don't give in to the temptation of holding cities yourself: a mayor gets bonuses and all, with large taxes you probably get more from the tax he pays than if you held the city yourself--and, more importantly, the mayor gets to keep all the cash after taxation, which (unlike landed nobility who have other expenses) he spends on upgrading the city. And mayors are very good at upgrading. Denmark can turn into a veritable powerhouse.

For the record, Brittany is a country very much like your own in geographical/economic terms. Your experience from Denmark will serve you well if you manage to inherit Brittany, plus, Brittany is a huge duchy that covers an entire de iure kingdom. Which means you can create another king title the moment you get that duchy (as long as you have at least three provinces there out of a total six, according to the standard 50% rule). You can keep the entire duchy in demesne if you feel like it or you can give it to a cadet you want to be powerful or anything. At any rate, the building & upgrading process would be similar. Just don't build any cultural buildings of your own if you consider giving the land to a vassal who may be of a different culture.

Third, Italy all the way to the alps (including Rome) is conquered by an array of Muslim nations.

It may still be possible for the HRE and the Byzantine Empire to take it back. This especially if Byzantines hold the line against the Seljuks and the Fatimids and if Christians in Spain win. It also opens ways for you as with Denmark you're going to have a large fleet eventually and you can make yourself rich enough to get some mercs too (army or navy or holy orders for those holy wars where you are the attacker). Same rules of being a coastal king apply in most cases.

Fourth, I've just excommunicated by the church thanks to Sweden for apparently no reason what so ever.

That happens. Sweden may simply want you attacked by someone or distracted trying not to be dogpiled. You need some piety to remove the excommunication. A vassal may get it done for you too.

Fifth, instead of fighting the Muslims the HRE is simply conquering all of her neighbors including my former holdings of lubeck and Holstein which I cannot take back unless I attack the the entire HRE.

That does suck. Restart and ally to the HRE?

There are additionally some other options for dealing with the HRE:

1) Gain a duchy inside HRE's de iure empire. That gives you eligibility for elections as long as the HRE stays elective. Probably won't win yet but...
2) If you actually somehow manage to swear fealty to the HRE (which will tend to require the acquisition of a kingdom inside its de iure so that you can switch your primary title to that other kingdom and then swear fealty), you just might be able to win the next election or the one after, being the largest power in there, especially if the emperor isn't well-liked. Might be different considering your foreign culture.
3) France or Byzzies should have enough power to offer you real help on more or less matching terms with the HRE. England might. Hungary and Poland combined too, or Sweden & Norway combined. You just need to send gifts to their rulers sometimes when they don't particularly like you (need high opinion).
4) Generally try to put your dynasty on the throne where you can, marrying duchesses and especially queens to your sons and brothers (and your own unmarried or widowed ruler), to expand your pool of allies.

Any advice, especially when dealing with the HRE as their is constantly kingdoms trying to break free but they eventually get squashed. Is there any way other than fueling dissent to support a breakup of the HRE?

Being allied to those kingdoms (so you can get involved), making sure they are allied to each other (this is painful micromanagement but you can sometimes broker an alliance for two kings without their participation, e.g. when you have their kids in your court).
 

unmerged(173762)

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Update, June 15th, 1157. So things have changed for the better I guess. My king is the most prestigious ruler but is coming to the end of his life any day now (80 years old). I was not only able to get Holstein back but the entire duchy through the holy war CB due to the entire HRE being Waldersein. The HRE was going through a massive insurrection of both her southern duchies of Bavaria, Provence, Champagne and her eastern ones of Bohemia (3rd time), Pec's and Pest. I figured now was my chance and it paid off. I've already converted the populations to Catholic and fought of the northern German duchies in an attempt to get it back with Sweden actually coming to my aid entirely on her accord.

Much earlier I did loose the duchy of Courland to Sweden which I plan on taking back but I no longer have a CB on it as it was 40 years ago. My son is the King of Hungary, which came to the brink of destruction with only 2 counties left but somehow was able to gain large sums of territory further east. I would love to facilitate the retaking of her homeland from the HRE if possible. My alliance with Poland is no more with myself actually fighting them in support of Hungary. The French king, last 2 for that matter have been my grandsons. France is constantly breaking down and the last king I supported with my entire army against uprisings when he was 3 years old and with the "slow" trait. I actually lost my first song during my campaigns in France. What can I do stabilize France and ensure my blood remain in power? Norway keeps going back and fourth with her Finnish territories and just recently completely took the English thrown and securing a strong alliance with Sweden again. Italy, despite several instances of infighting the Muslims still control the Vatican :( but my Papal relations are very good.

My economy is at 20 gold a month with my mayors investing heavily in their holdings making Sjyland a major producer in northern Europe.
 

JonStryker

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Wow! AI-Castille dominates Iberia! I've never seen that before :O

I'd don't know what your goals are for your game. If I were you my target would be to create Scandinavia. Sweden and Norway are pretty strong so it would be necessary to strengthen yourself first.

1) Take all the Pagan land in Finland. Those counties are poor but are a part of the Scandinavian Empire.
2) Pick up land someplace else. I'd go for Scotland / Ireland / Wales
3) In the right moment steal away land from the Swedes. The backwaterish Finnish lands are great to land claimants.
4) Break NorEngland apart (tricky) and grab Norwegian lands.
5) Finally create Scandinavia

To achieve some of those it might be a valid option to go Waldensian yourself. Helping out vassals in their wars is something I do seldom. Join their wars? Yes. Send troops to their stupid little wars? Probably not.
Holding family members in power somewhere is a pain. If they have your culture they most likely are hated by their vassals. And if they flipped culture they will hate you. I very much prefer to control them myself (blobbidy-blob).
 

Fishy101

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In my current game, I took Flanders from France and made it my capital. I think that might have influenced HRE to change from elective to Primogeniture as I can be elected. I wasn't watching but the Salians died out and Udonen became independent (I imagine they lost their seat as Kaiser because they changed the inheritance law). In anycase, HRE is not very stable anymore. I am allied to them because they had a prince with good stats I married one of my daughters to. They keep calling me to war against their own vassals. At this point I've blobbed pretty hard as a Fraticelli Emperor and it really doesn't matter what happens with HRE. I have twice their troops and can holy war anyone I want. But taking Flanders as a King or Emperor with a high prestige might be an effective way to destablize the HRE.
 

Sopot

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What can I do stabilize France and ensure my blood remain in power?
That French king may be your grandson but he is not of your dynasty, there is no real reason to waste all of your money and man power helping him. Oh and on that note, your son is matrillinially married to the Queen of Hungary, your dynasty will not take control there either, so, again, dont waste your time.
 

unmerged(173762)

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That French king may be your grandson but he is not of your dynasty, there is no real reason to waste all of your money and man power helping him. Oh and on that note, your son is matrillinially married to the Queen of Hungary, your dynasty will not take control there either, so, again, dont waste your time.

I'm not trying to take them through succession, just trying to build long term family ties along with long term alliance that are strong.
 

Fishy101

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The length of the alliance depends on how long you live, how long your son lives, and on the other side, how long your daughter and son in law lives. There is really no way to ensure that the alliance is long except to keep marrying into the family you want to keep an alliance with. The strength of the alliance is determined by how much your allies like you. You get a +25 opinion bonus from accepting their call for war. There is no opinion bonus or malus whether you actually send troops or not. You will not get a stronger alliance by sending troops.