Advice: To Assassinate or Not to Assassinate?

[SupraDork]

Currently playing Petty King of Munster. Trying to play a *clean* game (no fabricating claims, expanding using holy war CBs and pressing valid claims, no assassination plots). So, I landed my uncle (also my Marshal) who loved me but then decided that he was going to start a faction. Every 5 years or so I kick down some cash to convince him to dissolve his faction, however, my king is now 51 years old and this guy keeps starting his faction every time his opinion of me drops below 75. My concern is that my king may die before he does and that he will successfully create a faction and push his claim when my heir succeeds me. So, I'm considering the unthinkable.

Last night I was inches away from kicking down some cash to his Spymaster, sending my Councillor over there to create discord with his vassals, sending my Spymaster (after making sure he really, really likes me) into his county to start building a Spy Network, then go about the business of making his vassals like me with a jingle jingle of the money bag and starting up a plot to have him assassinated to prevent him from making a move if I die before he does.

My concerns: Being discovered before or after the assassination happens since he is a close family member... and I'll feel like crap that my first evil act is against my own beloved Uncle.

Pros: If the plot succeeds undetected, his heir (who isn't an envious turd like his dad) will take over and my heir will be out of the woods.

Should I try and assassinate him or do you think it's too risky and I should live in hope that he croaks before my king does? What do you think?

 

[Aries666]

Why not just imprison, revoke and throw in the oubliette?

 

[Thrake]

In "clean" games I only plot if my ruler has traits for it (ambitious, envious, wroth,...). Otherwise I just deal with it the "fair" way (could be revokation; given your realm looks small you can probably eat a bit of tyrany and get away with it). Or just let him with his faction and appoint other councilors; if you have enough count vassals a single bugger won't be able to do much so long as you placate the others.

As for kinslayer, again, if your king can hold off the other vassals you'll be safe; then you heir won't have kinslayer and maybe just a temporary opinion modifier? I quite don't understand how inherited opinion works as of now. Either way good savings is your life insurance against rebelions.

 

[WSnova]

Yeah I´d just imprision. Dig some dirt on him with your spymaster and get an excuse to put him in jail and "forget" where you put they key.

Its not gamey and its quite realistic for a government to throw someone threatening into jail for some pretty charges lol. More realistic than straight up assassination so its "cleaner".

Bonus points if he rebels and you crush him and can revoke his title.

 

[Tarroque]

Yeah I´d just imprision. Dig some dirt on him with your spymaster and get an excuse to put him in jail and "forget" where you put they key.

Its not gamey and its quite realistic for a government to throw someone threatening into jail for some pretty charges lol. More realistic than straight up assassination so its "cleaner".

Bonus points if he rebels and you crush him and can revoke his title.

As I recall when in Ancient Rome they had to execute a vestal virgin they weren't allowed to just stab her like they did half of their rulers and politicians. Instead they locked her in a sealed room underground with some insufficient supplies, and if she just happened to die of starvation and thirst then it didn't count as murder.

Not sure that'd fly in court today but Roman law works in mysterious ways.

 

[Thrake]

As I recall when in Ancient Rome they had to execute a vestal virgin they weren't allowed to just stab her like they did half of their rulers and politicians. Instead they locked her in a sealed room underground with some insufficient supplies, and if she just happened to die of starvation and thirst then it didn't count as murder.

Not sure that'd fly in court today but Roman law works in mysterious ways.

In medieval times it's called "to the oubliette"

 

[SupraDork]

Won't locking him up piss off his heir? Especially if I lock him up THEN strip him of his title. Won't that piss off all my vassals? want to get his dad out of the way with the least amount of noise. I've had my Spymaster sitting in his court Scheming but he wasn't able to turn up anything. Haven't looked it up yet, but is starting a faction a *legitimate* reason to throw someone in prison without a huge negative reaction from your vassals?

 

[WSnova]

If you lock him up rightfully your vassals won´t get angry.

You can´t revoke his title unless he revolts and your law allows you to. But when you go to arrest them many of them revolt anyways.

I don´t remember if the heir gets angry over you imprisioning his father, I think not but would have to check.

Joining a faction is not grounds for fair imprisionment, it needs to be a known plot, excommunication and him being an actual traitor. How well do you get along with the pope? Maybe some *ehem* donations could make him see your uncle as the impious heretic you know he is?

As for your heir, I usually release non ambitious prisioners at the start of my realm. It seems they are really grateful after being stuck in the dungeons for years. It was my dad anyways, things will be different now You only need to release one anyways.

 

[gdj]

Just leave him alone.

Save your cash, and if he really rebels before or after succession, defeat him. You can still decide then to revoke, throw him in the oubliette, or just pardon him.

Personally i often choose to pardon rebels in "clean" games. And guess what? It works decently well, a rule without tyranny, a king (or queen) beloved by all etc.

 

[WSnova]

I never go for tyranny either.

Letting him rebel if you think you can beat him is a good option too. Will let you imprision and revoke his title. IIRC you can even banish them tyranny free if they are leaders of the rebellion. Not execute them though.

 

[SupraDork]

OK. Thanks for the advice, guys. I've decided to sit it out and wait to see what happens. In the meantime, I took Dublin and subsequently created a duchy... which pissed him off even more because he's a little ambitious c*nt. Now with his ambition and desire to become duke his negative modifiers are at -50. Forget about him, I've decided to no longer try and placate him unless the danger is real. Instead, I think I'm just going to plop my Councilor in his land and Sow Dissent with his vassals to make him weaker, then kick some money down to his Spymaster (if I can find him... I couldn't find him in his list of courtiers) to make sure that he can't plot against me successfully in the meantime.

 

[deadhand13]

I feel like you're putting too much effort into pacifying someone who isn't really a threat. Factions are only really an issue with large realms and lots of (count+) vassals. If you're in Ireland, you should be holding most of the counties so any individual count vassals aren't a threat. You would be better off keeping your money and investing it into your holdings to increase income/troop size/building new holdings so that your vassals become even less of a threat. Keep in mind that all vassals (above baron anyways) are going to be working against you to some degree. You can't play whack-a-mole with all of them. Only worry about the ones who actually can hurt you.

 

[SupraDork]

You are probably right. This is actually my 4th time playing and I think I'm just barely coming to grips with the mechanics. The other 3 times I got screwed by ambitious vassals who I wasn't paying enough attention to, so I'm a bit paranoid as this playthrough actually seems to be working out for me. I've been obsessive about wards for example, educating all of my children and grandchildren as much as possible as well as educating the children of *problematic* vassals who will be their heirs. Major micromanagement but, so far, it's worked out. For example, this guy in particular, I've made sure that his heir doesn't inherit his ambitious and other negative ambitious traits. Do you think that's a good approach and are there any other suggestions you may have?

It's looking good for me at the moment as it looks like my heir finally got a legit claim on Connacht (which would give me an opportunity to make a claim for the Kingdom of Ireland). I don't know if my current king will be alive long enough to press that claim before handing the reigns over to my heir, especially since I spent my savings lending a hand with the last crusade. He's currently 57 years old so I think he's gonna croak in the next few years.

 

[WSnova]

Well, tbh the fun part of the game (at least for me) its all the plotting and intrigue and not the war.

So really, although its easier to just beat them in a war its sometimes more satisfying to weaken them through intrigue, even if they are not a threat. Its a good practice for when stuff gets harder with bigger vassals in bigger realms