Advice on temp workaround for Fatimid craziness?

[Avior]

I'm getting kind of tired of dealing with them constantly overrunning everyone. I don't want to nerf every Muslim kingdom, just the Fatimids, because as far as I'm concerned, they are broken. Any advice on an easy and effective way to do this? I tried giving them an utterly incompetent ruler with the ruler creator, but that only slowed them down for about 10 years. So yeah, any other ideas on what to do until this is patched?

 

[thebard]

Add shitloads of characters into their dynasty so they collapse by decadence?

 

[whosthebestcop]

What year are you starting in? 1066 they can steam roll. Closer to 1090 starts they aren't as powerful

 

[Avior]

I generally start in 1066.. Mostly because I want time to build up my county/duchy/kingdom before the first crusade is called.

And the problem with decadence is that they just reform after the decadence wars just as powerful as they were before.

 

[No idea]

I have found myself fighting in a Crusade for Jerusalem where we (chhristians) were 20000 men between ALL countires, while the fatimids were 300000 (yes, those were five zeroes) men. Ttoally impossible. Anyway, conquering Jerusalem should be difficult, and holding it for long or even the whole game should be VERY difficult. Irl it had been a doomed task if not for the muslims divisions and the fact that they didnt bother too much about Jerusalem

 

[Avior]

I don't have a problem with crusades being difficult.. I have a problem with the Fatimids conquering half of Europe and never having internal problems.

 

[Muskeato]

I agree they're strong early game. Playing as the Byzantines I was able to contain them and that limited their expansion to Ethiopia and the Seljuks but they were still a threat for quite a while, and damn stable. However, after about 50 years they were having civil war after civil war, meanwhile I cemented my place as European leader.

 

[Velorian]

If you want more realistic expansion from them, use a mod like CK2Plus or Project Balance.

 

[Avior]

If you want more realistic expansion from them, use a mod like CK2Plus or Project Balance.

Thing is, I'm fine with Vanilla in all other areas.. I'm not looking to change loads of things. I'm just trying to find a temp workaround until a patch is released.

 

[Velorian]

Last time I checked Project Balance leaned very close on vanilla focusing on fixing the imbalances rather than making up something new. At any rate, it would fix the problem, up to you how important that is.

 

[Rozmarzony]

Start in 1090 and set require piety for invasion to 5000 or smth like that.
Ew. start in 1066 without kingdom of Egypt on the map, only dukes there will be. It's help A LOT, and require only change in one .txt file.

 

[Torngasuk]

Add shitloads of characters into their dynasty so they collapse by decadence?

Or just increase the basic decadence numbers so they accumulate faster.

 

[LarryLeica]

Start in 1090 and set require piety for invasion to 5000 or smth like that.
Ew. start in 1066 without kingdom of Egypt on the map, only dukes there will be. It's help A LOT, and require only change in one .txt file.

The problem with altering CB requirements is they affect everyone. All you will see is less invasions everywhere, and restrict the ability of lesser realms from having a means to expand. In any case it doesn't nerf them as the issue is the get more piety/gold/prestige than everyone else so they still outstrip them. The biggest issue at the beginning of the game for them is the Mamluks, 7000 strong low-maintenance OP mercs, no one can field anything to compete, combine with 10k levies in 1066... ouch.

The best and easiest nerf at the moment is to edit the Caliph in the Beard Designer or first save, and remove all of his positive traits and add a few that cause relation penalties (possessed is quite amusing). Start the game, then save, and reload as the ruler of your choice.

 

[Rozmarzony]

The problem with altering CB requirements is they affect everyone.

Disabling invasions actually balance the game. Only Fatimids and muslims in Spain (if they were successfull) use them.
Getting all France or all Greece in 1 war is nothing good for the game, and its sense.

 

[LarryLeica]

Disabling invasions actually balance the game. Only Fatimids and muslims in Spain (if they were successfull) use them.
Getting all France or all Greece in 1 war is nothing good for the game, and its sense.

I agree that getting large realms in one go is a bit silly, however, I think the restriction should be based on a more severe size penalty, so that the realm you invade must be at least twice as big as yourself AND a neighbour. At least that would stop issues like the Fatimids invading Norway.

My earlier response was based on what you suggested to restrict the CB, if you don't want it, just comment it out from cb_types.txt.

Personally I prefer the CB process from Victoria 2 but am not sure how this would integrate in CK2 as it stands.

 

[chimosh]

I have been playing for 200 hours +

And Fatimid's are always different, sometimes they own, other times they are beaten,

this game is random.

 

[Cetan]

I published my personal workaround when I goof around in vanilla. Links in signature.

One of the main culprits are the Mamluks. They're a 6700-man force, equal to the size of a large nation, hired for only 33 gold with a 2 gold/month maintenance cost. With Egypt's advanced technology and extra holdings, they're literally free mercenaries.

The Hashashin are also a secondary culprit, granting another 7k in cavalry and horse archers for some piety and no maintenance when in a holy war. So, they literally have ~14k FREE troops. My personal tweak is to have the Knights Hospitaller announced in 1099 (the date they formed) instead of 1113 (the date they're recognized), so the Muslims only have 9 years with the only holy order, rather than 23.

Finally, they have an already high retinue cap to begin with, which only increases. By the time the Crusades roll around, they've got 3-4k in cavalry on top of everything else.

 

[Mixxer5]

I'm getting kind of tired of dealing with them constantly overrunning everyone. I don't want to nerf every Muslim kingdom, just the Fatimids, because as far as I'm concerned, they are broken. Any advice on an easy and effective way to do this? I tried giving them an utterly incompetent ruler with the ruler creator, but that only slowed them down for about 10 years. So yeah, any other ideas on what to do until this is patched?

That's main problem with CK2- we can snowball through the world because there's no system picturing internal corruption of realms. Bad leader dies (or is overthrown in seconds after starting the reign) and good one gets rule instead. Most of countries stay in balance instead of losing wars with their neighbors.

 

[Loderingo]

I think starting at the Alexiad start date definitely helps. In my current game the Fatimids were quiet for a bit, while the Byzantines added territory. Then there was a succession crisis and the Seljuks conquered Sinai. The Fatimids tried an invasion of Greece but lost the battle of the doomstacks. They've now been overthrown in a decadence revolt (the first time I ever saw one succeed)

Generally I think the Alexiad start date is better for Byzantium than 1066 as although they have less territory, Rum provides a bit of a buffer against the Seljuks.

 

[telegraph]

What do you guys want? an always successful crusades? Impregnable catholics? Precise history?

The first crusade was successful ONLY because muslims were in a political crysis (civil war).
The muslim conquest of Spain was successful ONLY because Jimena was in a similar crysis.
The Sejluks subjigated the romans only because a constant crysis in the empire.

Once those states consolidated - Kingdom of Jerusalem fell and Reconquista happened.

Later crusades were not as successful. Just because they were called at a wrong moment.

In this game it is modelled correctly. It is not geography, that defines the conquests, but it is political situation.
Instead of Iberia muslims can get Italy or Greece. Instead of falling apart - empire can become the Rome Reborn. It is up to you, as a player, to help your close and far away AI to achieve their goals.

If you want Fatimids to be less successful in general - try supporting their victims(in every way possible), instead of building 20th century centralized Ireland before 1100.