Advice on playing UK

[Mr_B0narpte]

Well, the war in Germany is not ended yet. In fact, next update will highlight that fact. But glad you have enjoyed it so far, and hope the next chapter doesn't throw everybody for a loop. Basically, we will be seeing a change in the Commander's belief structure as he struggles with the ongoing war. He is most disappointed that Hitler was not sensible and surrendered when Berlin fell.

Ooo, interesting. I'm surprised the USSR hasn't got involved.

The Wehrmacht lost many divisions during the latter part of their 1-year long struggle to win in Belgium. They were starting attacks with some divisions only having 5 or 10% strength remaining. However - while I could not keep exact track - I too have gotten a general impression of "Where is most of the Wehrmacht?". As I built that army playing Germany earlier, I know its composition and numbers quite well... and somehow it just doesn't seem to add up.

I don't get why the AI launched attacks that from the start were going to fail. Why is it's aggressiveness set so high? Only high MP nations should really have high aggression (i.e. China and USSR). I like Tomnoddy's idea of having a switch file for Germany in the winter of 1940, since I'm guessing there can't be universal files for all AIs (i.e. one saying to all AIs not to attack in winter unless they actually have a good chance of winning the battle).

But I was feeling this already before the French did their break out, so don't think it is because of SR - at least not mostly on account of that reason. I keep wondering if a good bunch are in Finland. Norway has only 1 division per coastal province so no Wehrmacht hiding there. I don't know the answer but remain open to get a nasty surprise.

I don't think any AIs voluntarily send many troops into allied territory.

YES, I will definitely continue the game and AAR - if it survives next posting.

If you're making reference to the forums' admin, I think you'll be fine considering panzergenerals' AAR was allowed for months on end, and it was never 'banned' or whatever the terminology is.

I really have to agree - the AIs need improving as regards what combats NOT to do. They have also missed many opportunities to stop the few French armor divisions by simply failing in letting other divisions that could have assisted JUST STAND AROUND. On the other hand, the Wehrmacht has destroyed itself with unrelenting major battles in Belgium - every one of which it lost seriously.

If only there was the AoD command for all AIs: "common_sense = yes".

EDIT: It seems a strange combination. As regards attacking, the AI has been suicidally over aggressive in a very big way. But as regards simple “low number of units defense”, the AI has been quite negligent - sometimes nearly passive.

I assume that's part of the aggressiveness, I hope it's set at 2 or 3. If its aggressiveness was only 1 then I'd be even more worried about the AI.

 

[Commander666]

Ooo, interesting. I'm surprised the USSR hasn't got involved.

They still might... but I'll title that installment "WWIII"!

I don't get why the AI launched attacks that from the start were going to fail. Why is it's aggressiveness set so high?

I'm playing normal/normal.

I think you'll be fine considering panzergenerals' AAR was allowed for months on end, and it was never 'banned'

No, it's something quite different. But I have edited most carefully, and chosen my words even more carefully. Anyway, we will find out soon as I'm publishing next piece imminently.

If only there was the AoD command for all AIs: "common_sense = yes".

Brilliant ! :rofl:

 

[Marshall18]

I'm not so sure, but I think the USSR first joins if/when the allies start loosing in France (maybe the fall of France is required?) :unsure:

It is just a guess...

 

[Commander666]

I'm not so sure, but I think the USSR first joins if/when the allies start loosing in France (maybe the fall of France is required?) :unsure:

It is just a guess...

No, I think there is another alternative but it comes later and is called "nukes!". hmy:

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

They still might... but I'll title that installment "WWIII"!

Although I'm not sure if it's good or not for the Allies that the USSR has not intervened. If it had, it would've brought most of Europe into the Axis, which either would've increased the Allies' power or perhaps would've saved Germany.

I'm playing normal/normal.

Yeah I assumed that. But the AI's aggressiveness can also be changed through the AI switch files. I seriously hope the Germany AI did not perform those suicidal attack on aggressiveness = 1.

No, it's something quite different. But I have edited most carefully, and chosen my words even more carefully. Anyway, we will find out soon as I'm publishing next piece imminently.

Ah, I think I understand what you are referring to now.

I'm not so sure, but I think the USSR first joins if/when the allies start loosing in France (maybe the fall of France is required?) :unsure:

My guess was that it would join if Germany wasn't defending its border with the USSR adequately, unless this is an exception, then my initial guess was wrong.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

I'm not so sure, but I think the USSR first joins if/when the allies start loosing in France (maybe the fall of France is required?) :unsure:

It is just a guess...

Year 1942 might be required for soviet AI to declare war.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Year 1942 might be required for soviet AI to declare war.

IMO it shouldn't be dependent upon the year, but the situation (i.e. whenever Germany is at war with the Allies with France still controlling its metropole, and Germany has little/no defence on its borders with the USSR).

 

[Tomnoddy]

Although I'm not sure if it's good or not for the Allies that the USSR has not intervened. If it had, it would've brought most of Europe into the Axis, which either would've increased the Allies' power or perhaps would've saved Germany.

Bring it on! I'm sure France would love to invade Spain, Portugal and Yugoslavia. Wouldn't the UK like to Amphib Finland and Greece? When you're finally done with the extended Axis, just invoke that Guarantee of Independence you threw on Estonia and DoW the Soviets. Once you reach Vladivostok you can turn your attention to the Japanese.... Lisbon to Tokyo is quite an empire!

 

[Commander666]

Bring it on! I'm sure France would love to invade Spain, Portugal and Yugoslavia. Wouldn't the UK like to Amphib Finland and Greece? When you're finally done with the extended Axis, just invoke that Guarantee of Independence you threw on Estonia and DoW the Soviets. Once you reach Vladivostok you can turn your attention to the Japanese.... Lisbon to Tokyo is quite an empire!

You warmongerer! We need a different political solution. Portugal is already in the Allies. But yes, I would love to amphib Finland and Greece - but the latter has definite restrictions. However, the Commander is actively working on "political solutions". Fortunately his new disgust of war might see this game get to "creating new wars to so end existing wars elsewhere in the world!" I'm sure - it being AoD - it will not just end with Germany annexed.

But actually,I thought you would lambast me for the goof up regarding Poland. But seems you are all for the French having foiled the UK's "noble plans" now that a "Madrid to Paris to Moscow to Tokyo" empire might be possible. Not really sure the Brits would approve of the color scheme. But I'll remember that there was a GoI on Estonia.

 

[Commander666]

But the AI's aggressiveness can also be changed through the AI switch files. I seriously hope the Germany AI did not perform those suicidal attack on aggressiveness = 1.

Is there a way that I can check what the setting was - or does it literally switch during the game? What I know for sure, in the last few months there were many attacks started against Belgium using Wehrmacht so low on remaining strength that several German divisions were actually eliminated during the course of the German initiated attack. And the German attack just continued as some of their divisions were eliminating. This repeated many times.

My guess was that it would join if Germany wasn't defending its border with the USSR adequately, unless this is an exception, then my initial guess was wrong.

Germany had very few divisions in border province with SU. Hungary same. Romania was well defended.

Loading as Germany the day before the French begin their diversion by attacking Luxembourg, the Eastern Front looks like this:

Except for Memmel (which has 3 divisions) all other front line provinces down to Presov have only one division (except Przemysl is empty). The 3 frontline Romanian provinces have 8 divisions each. SU could most easily have rolled into Berlin once the French started the break out.

On same day (Aug 27/41) I see Germany only has 80 divisions total (includes defense of Norway) and many are in pretty bad shape. Reinforcements Needed is 167 IC. Additionally they have all of Hungary as expeditionary.

But earlier on June 19/40 (after having successfully taken Strasbourg) Germany had 149 divisions - and was building 10 lines of ground troops.

So it seems the Wehrmacht lost 69 divisions in their unrelenting attacks on Belgium (plus any that completed construction in the interim 14 months). At this time their border with SU is already down to 1 division only/province. All in all - I think this is a record for "most abysmal German AI performance ever documented".

Given all this, not sure why SU never attacked. Maybe it was the Allies waiting for the Airborne Assault that set things up for no attack from SU, meaning waiting for the Airborne Assault delayed the Allies starting any diversion, but when it came – it came very fast.

Maybe Pang is right... it needs 1942. But how can that be since Barbarossa starts in 1941? If no Barbarossa, it then needs 1942? Well, the Bolsheviks lost out in this game! They should have had better intel on the Commander's plans! :rofl:

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Is there a way that I can check what the setting was - or does it literally switch during the game? What I know for sure, in the last few months there were many attacks started against Belgium using Wehrmacht so low on remaining strength that several German divisions were actually eliminated during the course of the German initiated attack. And the German attack just continued as some of their divisions were eliminating. This repeated many times.

Pressing F12, typing "debugai" then clicking on Germany *should* show you the combat switch file it is using (in the top right of the screen), but since it only shows one when the AI can use many at the same time it's hard to know if it's following that file rigidly.

Germany had very few divisions in border province with SU. Hungary same. Romania was well defended.

Loading as Germany the day before the French begin their diversion by attacking Luxembourg, the Eastern Front looks like this:

Except for Memmel (which has 3 divisions) all other front line provinces down to Presov have only one division (except Przemysl is empty). The 3 frontline Romanian provinces have 8 divisions each. SU could most easily have rolled into Berlin once the French started the break out.

Blimey, what was Stalin thinking at the time?! I guess Pang is right, with it having to be at least 1942; but I hope this changes!

On same day (Aug 27/41) I see Germany only has 80 divisions total (includes defense of Norway) and many are in pretty bad shape. Reinforcements Needed is 167 IC. Additionally they have all of Hungary as expeditionary.

But earlier on June 19/40 (after having successfully taken Strasbourg) Germany had 149 divisions - and was building 10 lines of ground troops.

So it seems the Wehrmacht lost 69 divisions in their unrelenting attacks on Belgium (plus any that completed construction in the interim 14 months). At this time their border with SU is already down to 1 division only/province. All in all - I think this is a record for "most abysmal German AI performance ever documented".

:O :O That is just... That's crazy! It beggars belief how stupid the AI can be. But, instead of lampooning the AI all day, we should try and find appropriate edits to make the AI just that little bit less stupid.

Given all this, not sure why SU never attacked. Maybe it was the Allies waiting for the Airborne Assault that set things up for no attack from SU, meaning waiting for the Airborne Assault delayed the Allies starting any diversion, but when it came – it came very fast.

Maybe taking Denmark, but they had most of 1941 anyway.

Maybe Pang is right... it needs 1942. But how can that be since Barbarossa starts in 1941? If no Barbarossa, it then needs 1942? Well, the Bolsheviks lost out in this game! They should have had better intel on the Commander's plans! :rofl:

I hope Pang is right, otherwise that would mean the AI isn't sticking to the switch files as it should. I know historically there has been great debate over the USSR's plans to attack Germany, but gameplay-wise the Soviet Union should invade Germany if it's bogged down in a war with France and has barely any divisions guarding its border with the USSR.

November 11: And to make it still worse for the Germans, the Allies open a third front by attacking German-held Eindhoven. Meanwhile the air battles over the now mostly frozen landscape continue with the Luftwaffe bravely trying to stop the interdiction of their ground forces. But how can you have only 6 wings and be over-stacked in 1941?

I guess the German AI didn't promote the air commander.

Finish off the Krauts! One last (hopefully epic) battle in Essen

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Not sure if it's this file, but it looks about right:

Germany war with France:

# German Low Countries Invasion AI File by Lothos

max_front_ratio = 1.0
max_garrison_prop = 0.30
min_garrison_prop = 0.20
max_front_ratios = {
	BEL = 10.0
	HOL = 10.0
	LUX = 10.0
}

###################################
# Diplomacy
###################################
combat = {
	HOL = 100
	BEL = 100
	LUX = 100
}
###################################
# Ground Combat, Leaders and Garrisons
###################################
garrison = {
	defend_overseas_beaches = yes
	
	home_multiplier 	= 1.0
	overseas_multiplier = 1.0
	home_peace_cap 		= 20
	war_zone_odds 		= 2.0
	key_point_prio_mult	= 0.0
	revolt_risk_mult	= 0.1

	# PRIORITIES:
	beach			= 20	# Beach level 2
	capital			= 20	# Our capital
	human_border	= 0		# Ignored for allied human players
	war_target		= 50	# The next country targeted for attack by this AI
	reserves 		= 40	# bonus for provinces just behind a frontline.
	
	opposing_alliance	= 0	# For neutrals, all alliances are "opposing"
	claim_threat		= 0	# If we are neutral, countries with claims on us get this
	unstable_border		= 0	# Bordering countries at war with someone else get this

	# Borders with specific countries
	country_priorities = {
		VIC = -1
		SWE = -1
		FIN = -1
		ITA = -1
		SCH = -1
		AUS = -1
		HUN = -1
		CZE = 75
		POL = 75
		YUG = 5
		HOL = 100
		BEL = 100
		FRA = 20
		DEN = 5
		SOV = 5
	}
	province_priorities = {	}
	area_multiplier = { }
}
front = { 
	recklessness 		= 2 # 0-3
	distrib_vs_ai 		= reactive
	distrib_vs_human 	= reactive

	enemy_reinf_days	= 6
	reserve_prop		= 0.0
	panic_ratio_vs_ai	= 2.5
	panic_ratio_vs_human= 2.5
	base_attack_odds	= 1.3
	min_attack_odds		= 1.1
	max_attack_odds		= 3.0
	reinforce_odds		= 1.2
	withdraw_odds		= 0.6

    enemy_handicap = { } 
    passivity = { } 

	province_priorities = {
		#Maginot Line
		314 = 0.05
		315 = 0.05
	}
}

Trigger for USSR declaring war on Germany:

################
# Soviet declare war on Germany AI
#############################################
event = {
	id = 25002
	random = no 
	country = SOV
	
	trigger = {
		ai = yes
		NOT = { non_aggression = { country = GER country = SOV } }
		OR = {
			local_flag = SOVInvadeGER
			war = { country = GER country = SOV }
			AND = {
				random = 5
				NOT = { war = { country = GER country = SOV } }
				year = 1942
				atwar = GER
			}
			AND = {
				random = 15
				NOT = { flag = MolotovPact }
				NOT = { event = 2013 } # Molotov Pact Historical
				NOT = { event = 2015 } # Molotov Pact Alliance
				NOT = { event = 2016 } # Molotov Pact Limited
				OR = {
					control = { province = 485 data = GER } # Warsaw
					war = { country = GER country = POL }
					war = { country = GER country = FRA }
					war = { country = GER country = ENG }
					puppet = { country = POL country = GER }
				}
			}
		}
	}

	name = "AI_EVENT"
	style = 0
	
	date = { day = 0 month = january year = 1936}
	offset = 12
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1999 }

	action_a = {
		command = { type = ai which = "switch/SOV_Germany.ai" }
		command = { type = local_setflag which = max_factor_010 }
		command = { type = local_clrflag which = max_factor_030 }
		command = { type = local_clrflag which = max_factor_050 }
		command = { type = ai which = "Air_Ground.ai" }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 25001 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 25003 }
		command = { type = local_setflag which = SOVInvadeGER }
		command = { type = local_clrflag which = SOVInvadeFIN }
	}
}

So looks like the USSR will not declare war until 1942 as Pang said, and won't declare war on Germany if any versions of the M-R Pact are accepted. To me, this makes little sense gameplay-wise.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Blimey, what was Stalin thinking at the time?! I guess Pang is right, with it having to be at least 1942; but I hope this changes!
[...]
I hope Pang is right, otherwise that would mean the AI isn't sticking to the switch files as it should. I know historically there has been great debate over the USSR's plans to attack Germany, but gameplay-wise the Soviet Union should invade Germany if it's bogged down in a war with France and has barely any divisions guarding its border with the USSR.
[..]

Stalin/USSR was not aiming to be ready for war before 1942 and in 1941 USSR was not ready for war due to the purges. Stalin was hoping for fascist and capitalist western nation to wear off themselves. Attacking germany and thereby helping the allies may do too much relative harm to ussr then simply waiting.

So looks like the USSR will not declare war until 1942 as Pang said, and won't declare war on Germany if any versions of the M-R Pact are accepted. To me, this makes little sense gameplay-wise.

You did read the OR correctly, did you?

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Stalin/USSR was not aiming to be ready for war before 1942 and in 1941 USSR was not ready for war due to the purges. Stalin was hoping for fascist and capitalist western nation to wear off themselves. Attacking germany and thereby helping the allies may do too much relative harm to ussr then simply waiting.

I repeat "I know historically there has been great debate over the USSR's plans to attack Germany, but gameplay-wise the Soviet Union should invade Germany if it's bogged down in a war with France and has barely any divisions guarding its border with the USSR." Gameplay-wise, attacking Germany when it is bogged down in France after several months of combat is a great time for the USSR to attack. It might help the Allies, but a USSR with all of Poland and most of Germany is far stronger then a USSR just letting the Allies defeat and then take over Germany.

You did read the OR correctly, did you?

I guess not. What are the requirements then? I can't decipher all the ORs, NOTs and ANDs.

 

[Commander666]

Finish off the Krauts! One last (hopefully epic) battle in Essen

Perhaps? hmy:

I can't decipher all the ORs, NOTs and ANDs.

Thanks for copying the Switch File info. But I feel the same!

 

[Commander666]

Stalin/USSR was not aiming to be ready for war before 1942 and in 1941 USSR was not ready for war due to the purges. Stalin was hoping for fascist and capitalist western nation to wear off themselves. Attacking germany and thereby helping the allies may do too much relative harm to ussr then simply waiting.

I think you're right. And with the Commander's continuing plans, waiting probably is best for the SU. Who knows what will happen next? :wub:

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Gameplay-wise, attacking Germany when it is bogged down in France after several months of combat is a great time for the USSR to attack. It might help the Allies, but a USSR with all of Poland and most of Germany is far stronger then a USSR just letting the Allies defeat and then take over Germany.

In theory that might be so. But making AI understand when Germany is about to be defeated anyway could prove a bit more tricky. Even a human soviet union would have problems to pick the proper point in time. If a soviet DoW will get Sweden, Spain and other countries into axis that might hurt the allies but soviet union, too.

I guess not. What are the requirements then? I can't decipher all the ORs, NOTs and ANDs.

There are many possible cases. But the important point is that unless germany provokes soviet union Stalin will not attack before 1942.

 

[Commander666]

But the important point is that unless germany provokes soviet union Stalin will not attack before 1942.

What if the Allies provoke the Soviet Union? Maybe Stalin just doesn't like Commander's storyline!

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

In theory that might be so. But making AI understand when Germany is about to be defeated anyway could prove a bit more tricky.

Maybe when Germany starts losing national territory to the Allies (got that idea from a mod :blush: but it still could be used for 'vanilla' AoD). Or when Germany has little to no divisions on its border with the USSR while Germany is bogged down in France. The AI can see all, can't it? And AFAIK event commands can be made for when provinces are un-defended.

Even a human soviet union would have problems to pick the proper point in time. If a soviet DoW will get Sweden, Spain and other countries into axis that might hurt the allies but soviet union, too.

Well if all those countries are AI then a human USSR would most likely be thinking "great, more countries to conquer". But Spain might be a worry if the SCW has finished beforehand with a Nationalist victory, as it could lead to a German victory in France.

There are many possible cases. But the important point is that unless germany provokes soviet union Stalin will not attack before 1942.

Ah ok, maybe reduce this to 1941 if Germany has still not defeated France in Europe?

 

[OLDTIMER]

Hi all,

great read this.

Concerning resurrection of Poland I think it`s absolutely justified to use acceptall to get the provs needed.
UK and France went to war to keep Poland independent, at least that was the formal reason.

Rgds, Oldtimer