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alufdufe

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Quote Commander666: Blame Churchill for being a big whimp when it came to talikng to Stalin.

But wasn't he the one who put forth the idea for "Operation Unthinkable?" (Which would be a meeting I"d love to see the Commander attend, and if you could get Patton there as US representative, it would probably be a lively discussion.)
 

Pang Bingxun

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Technically speaking, Poland was invaded by the Soviet Union (in 1939), and later (in 1945) put under the "Communist Thumb" with the Allies' blessing via the Potsdam Agreement that totally betrayed Polish national interest. Blame Churchill for being a big whimp when it came to talikng to Stalin.

You are not speaking technically but historically. Technically poland was not at war with soviet union. I am just talking about AoD.
 

Commander666

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But wasn't Churchill the one who put forth the idea for "Operation Unthinkable?" (Which would be a meeting I"d love to see the Commander attend, and if you could get Patton there as US representative, it would probably be a lively discussion.)

I actually had to Google that. Thanks! That gives me great idea for future installment. Your wish may come true! Yes, Patton would be the right "3rd man". Or should we add General Douglas MacArthur to take the gloves off nukes?
 

Commander666

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You are not speaking technically but historically. Technically poland was not at war with soviet union. I am just talking about AoD.

Well, that's the problem with AARs. History gets mixed with technics while adding liberal dashes of fiction! Oh? So this is AoD? OK, I'll try to stay within those confines, maybe (probably not!).
 

Mr_B0narpte

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The Commander keeps bulk trading all the UK resources at horribly unprofitable deals to scrape together an ever continuing supply of meager world dollars so he can fund his pet project of influencing more nations to join the noble Allied cause. Obviously, the UK comptroller is not capable of reining in this storyline commander! However, year-end statistics will actually prove the Commander's strategy to be right on (later installment).
You could just invest more IC into CG, I imagine it's more efficient.

"No" to "Made in USA". Canceled all my trades with USA as requires too many convoys trading via San Diego. There are actually several countries giving same very favorable rate as USA but much closer to home to save convoys. And Belgium gives even better rate. But trading to Canada via Vancouver is also a bit of a convoy killer. Of course (just to save Pang the trouble of reminding me) this UK is now ONLY "merging trades" to gain ever greater convoy efficiency.
Ah ok, that Vancouver and San Diego thing is quite stupid. But I guess it's hardcoded :sad: Where is gunman when you need him?

True! But they could have just joined nobody... or never DOWed the SU in the first place. Their double mistake will become the ruin of their once beautiful country. The USAAF just loves smashing all the Greek historic places like the Parthenon to rubble. Ever wonder why most Greek statutes are missing limbs? Blame the uncontrollable Yankee bombers!
Maybe the British could recompense them and return their Elgin Marbles!

True, but the UK and France screwed up with their attack that created a political border across Poland. Of course, that's totally the fault of Maurice Gamelin (ex-French Chief of the Army) and his gung-ho armor divisions that caused that. I write "ex" because the French government finally got rid of the prima donna. Of course some people would blame certain persons unnamed on the UK side, but then those people don't know the reality of how difficult it is to manage all the many Allies if doing it nearly alone! :D
Yeah AoD can involve a lot of micro-management, but that's what the pause button is for! :D

CORRECTION: UK trades with USA via Los Angeles! Wouldn't Anchorage be closer if using the Polar Route? :rofl:
Crazy Americans!
 

Commander666

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You could just invest more IC into CG, I imagine it's more efficient.

But if I invested more IC into CG to raise $ income, I would have less IC to build troops, ships and planes. The extra resources in the stockpiles are basically an unused , over abundant entity (unless of course I run out). By disposing of stockpiles grossly oversized I get FREE dollars without lowering my effective IC to build stuff. It really is the simple magic of creative finance. And I can't even trade any more of the excess resources for $ because there simply are not enough convoys - especially if routing them to USA! Bear in mind I need to reserve at least 300-500 convoys for the ability to influence events in the Pacific.

I have always maintained, "War booty = $ = influence buys = new armies = world domination."



Maybe the British could recompense them and return their Elgin Marbles!

That's a good one!



Crazy Americans!

No, crazy Brits to trade with the Americans! :D
 

Commander666

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How do you handle the increased bill for civil spendings at peace?

Next instalment will show the Production Tab. Basically, I suppose, cut somewhere else like unit building. But as Reinforcements and Province Repair are also reducing, I'm not sure there actually is a net loss in unit building. The new production looks really good, I think. I might also try a bit of reduction in Military Salaries but think I remember getting a bad result trying that in some other game. Kind of risky when nations like the SU and Japan still exist.
 
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Mr_B0narpte

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Good to see that AI Spain and Italy had stockpiled a substantial amount of resources, I guess we have Pang's 1.08 edits to thank for that :D

I wonder how you'll handle the crazy divisions of Italy, Spain and Greece now. I guess the French are determined to hold Czechoslovakia and most of the Balklands!

Bit disappointing to see yet further inactivity from the US AI, but great to see the hyper-activity of the rest of the Allies parachuting, amphibiously and generally attacking everywhere! :D
 

Commander666

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Good to see that AI Spain and Italy had stockpiled a substantial amount of resources, I guess we have Pang's 1.08 edits to thank for that :D

Yes, I think Pang Bingxum has been more helpful to my various crazy campaigns than he may realize! I still owe him for all that oil the Wehrmacht found in Moscow. :D



I wonder how you'll handle the crazy divisions of Italy, Spain and Greece now. I guess the French are determined to hold Czechoslovakia and most of the Balklands!


"The future reveals all!"



Bit disappointing to see yet further inactivity from the US AI, but great to see the hyper-activity of the rest of the Allies parachuting, amphibiously and generally attacking everywhere! :D

Well, the storyline Commander has a good solution to resolve that great disappoinment (next installment). But yes, all the other Allies were really great. Of course, we know who was commanding them. :rofl:
 

Pang Bingxun

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Good to see that AI Spain and Italy had stockpiled a substantial amount of resources, I guess we have Pang's 1.08 edits to thank for that :D

I believe those few changes in trade i made in 1.08 are mostly ineffective. The increased desire to stockpile was implemented via exe, so you would have to thank gunman_.
 

Mr_B0narpte

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Yes, I think Pang Bingxum has been more helpful to my various crazy campaigns than he may realize! I still owe him for all that oil the Wehrmacht found in Moscow. :D
Haha.

"The future reveals all!"
Indeed it does!

Well, the storyline Commander has a good solution to resolve that great disappoinment (next installment). But yes, all the other Allies were really great. Of course, we know who was commanding them. :rofl:
Ooo, I guess military control of EXPing their forces. The commander certainly did well in winning the war :D

I believe those few changes in trade i made in 1.08 are mostly ineffective. The increased desire to stockpile was implemented via exe, so you would have to thank gunman_.
If only gunman_ had made most of the hardcoded features editable through softcoding, then the AoD community could provide even more great additions to this game!*

*(And also to give it a chance of keeping up with DH)
 

Mr_B0narpte

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Banning the USA from the Allies was certainly a surprise! But it's probably for the best, I wonder what the US AI will do now.

Great combat efficiency, but to be honest I have yet to see the AI achieve anything more then 80% combat efficiency when against a human.

I don't mean to criticise your strategy, but aren't India, Burma, Malaysia and Singapore better places for your "UK advance force"?
 

Commander666

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I wonder what the US AI will do now.

Probably assemble all their armor in Alaska! As their Interventionism is very high, they could DOW Japan and beat the UK to Truk (or anywhere I suppose). What would be great is if "The Cold War Gets Hot" had a separate event that related to just USA/SU relations - and I could watch the Yanks trying to defend their Finland! :D



Great combat efficiency, but to be honest I have yet to see the AI achieve anything more then 80% combat efficiency when against a human.

I think combat efficiency is just MP losses delivered divided by MP losses taken which really has small relevancy to "efficiency". True combat efficiency would modify in the # of divisions human fought with versus AI. But 80% for the AI possible? The Allies must be doing really good then because the Annexed only got 33% efficiency. However, basically I personally think that particular graph is just a "cute picture" - probably perfect for the storyline commander to decorate his office with! I have difficulty interpreting it because it lumps Finland with China (neutrals) while not even showing a red smidgen for SU but their MP loss is a significant 8,500 which - even if it does not constitute a one degree sector - should still have been shown as a line so the graph makes sense.


I don't mean to criticise your strategy, but aren't India, Burma, Malaysia and Singapore better places for your "UK advance force"?

It's quite all right. Criticism is appreciated. Two minds are better than one! But there are very good reasons for UK to park a sizeable force in Australia instead of the UK’s own territory. Firstly, the probable war with Japan may be 1 1/2 years away (or more). It would be a huge burden on the UK convoy system if those troops were in any of the places you mention. So is that not creating a burden on Australia? Of course it is as regards the extra IC to produce the extra needed supplies to feed the Brits. But what is better, Australia has more IC to build two more NAV and complete their one set, or UK has more IC to complete its partial set? Australia builds more ships to add to their most limited fleet, or UK adds three first rate CVs?

But as regards the strategic aspect of being at Darwin versus Singapore, it should matter little since nowhere except Hong Kong will get the UK force safe from further transport thru hostile waters. And there is a very safe exit from Darwin running behind West Java to Singapore. Of course, the plan is to position to Hong Kong before I DOW Japan (if I get so lucky to be able to do that), but maybe I will be surprised. And it is exactly because there exists a large possibility of surprise (Japan DOWs us) imagine if those troops were sitting in Europe when that happens. Goodbye Hong Kong!

But I can't keep them in Hong Kong for 2 years either because once they do go there the UK will be forced to make major changes regarding the appropriation of convoys and - basically - move to wartime convoy routes and convoy numbers. Most resource convoys will get stopped and suddenly the UK picks up 1000 extra convoys to supply their new beach heads. It is anticipated that Hong Kong will be the primary beach head into Japanese occupied China. And it will take 300-400 convoys running every day just to keep that one front supplied. Want Taiwan - add another 150 convoys if wanting to use the bases there. Want Truk - best let it go to Australia. Want to land in the Home Islands.... better have 500 more convoys standing by.

You may find further movements of the UK forces as they expand their Asian pre-positioning quite interesting. Bear in mind that at this point the UK has zero supply convoys anywhere in the world (exception once a month to Malta and Colombo each for a day) and all their forces in Europe, Gibraltar, Italy, Singapore, Kuching and Hong Kong are being supplied as needed by clever manipulation of the MANUAL convoy system or other alternative means - and spending not one UK supply or barrel of oil to do it. In fact, supplies and oil are being stockpiled in Singapore and Hong Kong - all courtesy of the UK's good friends. Of course the UK reciprocates in many ways making sure each nation has all it needs so it can meet its expected obligations. But the whole system boils down to "who can best do what?" And clearly, Australia can best supply a sizeable future invasion force assembling. So that's their responsibility for now.
 
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Mr_B0narpte

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Probably assemble all their armor in Alaska! As their Interventionism is very high, they could DOW Japan and beat the UK to Truk (or anywhere I suppose). What would be great is if "The Cold War Gets Hot" had a separate event that related to just USA/SU relations - and I could watch the Yanks trying to defend their Finland! :D
Haha, well at least Alaska is near the USSR! Their defence of Finland would be quite funny to see! Hopefully the US would nuke the USSR in retaliation.

I think combat efficiency is just MP losses delivered divided by MP losses taken which really has small relevancy to "efficiency". True combat efficiency would modify in the # of divisions human fought with versus AI. But 80% for the AI possible? The Allies must be doing really good then because the Annexed only got 33% efficiency. However, basically I personally think that particular graph is just a "cute picture" - probably perfect for the storyline commander to decorate his office with! I have difficulty interpreting it because it lumps Finland with China (neutrals) while not even showing a red smidgen for SU but their MP loss is a significant 8,500 which - even if it does not constitute a one degree sector - should still have been shown as a line so the graph makes sense.
Ah ok, I don't know how combat efficiency is calculated but that does make sense. Maybe this also shows the need to soft-code more parts of AoD. The ferocity 0-3 grade seems to be too vague and over-encompassing, if there was a more detailed list of choices and commands (e.g. telling the AI not to attack with divisions that have less then 50% strength, telling them to pull back such depleted units from the front-line, telling them to only attack with a maximum of X divisions and enabling them to pull out units in battle and replace them with fresh ones etc). But maybe I'm just getting too farcical here.

It's quite all right. Criticism is appreciated. Two minds are better than one! But there are very good reasons for UK to park a sizeable force in Australia instead of the UK’s own territory... And clearly, Australia can best supply a sizeable future invasion force assembling. So that's their responsibility for now.
All very true and valid points. Basing your advanced force in Australia makes perfect sense to me know.
 

Pang Bingxun

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Ah ok, I don't know how combat efficiency is calculated but that does make sense.

I believe it is losses inflicted during battle / losses suffered during battle. So it is combat efficiency, the kill/loss ratio. It does not include losses due surrender/encirclement. It does also not include losses due attrition.
 

Mr_B0narpte

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I believe it is losses inflicted during battle / losses suffered during battle. So it is combat efficiency, the kill/loss ratio. It does not include losses due surrender/encirclement. It does also not include losses due attrition.
IMO it shouldn't included losses to attrition, but another graph showing losses due to attrition would be great. But it should include losses due to surrender or encirclement, another thing to the long list of, IMO, preferred changes to AoD's hard-coded features.
 

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Ahh, so it is just the combat efficiency that does not take into account losses due to encirclement and surrender, well it should do!
 

Commander666

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I believe it is losses inflicted during battle / losses suffered during battle. So it is combat efficiency, the kill/loss ratio. It does not include losses due surrender/encirclement. It does also not include losses due attrition.

What is combat efficiency? A sledge hammer to squash a bug? Firstly, there is no universal agreed definition and even different parts of any military will judge it differently. But if I and my nine friends beat up one single opponent (we'll assume all the losses were on his side) was our side efficient?

Efficiency is not force. Efficiency is result achieved by minimum effort exerted. Hence, any graph like that (MP losses inflicted/MP losses taken) does NOT measure efficiency but is only a further cute representation of the info already presented in the other two graphs.

An example of the various concerns of judging battle efficiency was the Russian way of counting how many horses they killed (for food I assume) for each German tank destroyed.

Further, a true efficiency would most definitely put the greatest focus on enemy MP losses suffered DUE TO SURRENDER/ENCIRCLEMENT because there is nothing more efficient than that - SURRENDER. The fact that the graph omits the most important factor of battle efficiency and skews total enemy MP lost makes the graph probably not even worthy for a storyline commander to display!

And because attrition is such a major factor of the game, it should be shown (but not in that graph). While attrition suffered during a war most certainly is a measure of battle efficiency in every way (planning, logistics, adaptation, flexibility and lack of control) I quite agree with Mr_BOnarpte that it should stay out of a "battle efficiency" graph only to simplify creating a better graph than currently shown AND BECAUSE seeing the attrition figures separately probably is more interesting (and useful) to players - especially as a chart connecting monthly points.


Saying "kill ratio = combat efficiency" is a statement expressing failure to understand how wars are won. The statement is much more applicable to Cro-Magnon times when each caveman possibly had the same length club. To be precise, "kill ratio = exactly kill ratio", and nothing else. But "battle efficiency" is an idea that is totally concerned with the idea of winning, weapons working better, and does not need necessarily to include killing (although that is often the side effect of sinking a ship with more efficient torpedoes, etc). It could include simply rendering the enemy ineffective, such as arranging their surrender or denying them oil for their equipment.

If USA with an army of say 1 million achieves a 1:10 kill ration ratio against China's army (let's say 100 million) we can easily see it will be the most inefficient war the USA might ever fight. In fact the USA would be out of soldiers when China has 90% army left. A nuke would be much more efficient, as would a USA retreat. And if the USA did nuke China, would anybody give any credence to a claim that the USA just achieved a kill ration of zero-to-a-million? No, because kill ratio happens on the battlefield individually between soldiers while things like artillery tend to skew the true facts.

But battle efficiency begins in the minds of strategists, moves thru armaments factories, and eventually tests itself in situations with unlimited factors to decide a winner if the game is played to a conclusion. Time that a war takes would be a much better measure of battle efficiency than any body counts. So, it can be correctly stated that "A 7-day war to create Vichy France must be very battle efficient".

But as regards AoD, player working the situation to get surrounds and over-runs is probably the most important measure of battle efficiency; and it is quite wrong that the graph excludes that but calls itself what it does.
 
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