Advice on forming Russia

[Wheem]

I'm playing a multiplayer game as Muscovy with my old man (who is playing England), and by the early-mid 1420's I have everything I need to form Russia except for Smolensk and/or Chernigov. What would be the best way for me to go about acquiring cores on one (or both) of those provinces?

Smolensk is currently held by Poland (who is my ally, and got the province by annexing Polotsk), and Chernigov is held by Ukraine. I thought about just using the tribal conquest CB to grab Chernigov, but I have to wonder - is there a faster way to get a core? Waiting 50 years for it to core kind of stinks, but I could end up waiting indefinitely before getting a border friction (or similar) event. There are no Russian/Muscovite missions for Smolensk or Chernigov specifically, but I think I remember reading something about a relatively frequent core-giving mission if Smolensk is held by non-Orthodox and/or non-Russians; does anyone have any info on that?

 

[Chronicler]

I usually always get a core their by event.

The best way is to let smolensk form imo. And then take it. (or whatever the minor there is called.)

 

[ForzaA]

I usually take one, while making sure the other qualifies for at least one core-giving event (ie. I border it) - maximum wait time 50 years.
Forcing a PU with the owner is another option (assuming it's a same-culture-group owner)

In the meantime, just go on expanding, it's not like it's more expensive to have to replace more Muscovite flags with Russian ones

 

[Blastaz]

Yeah smack the Ukraine around. You want all those Ruthenian provinces anyway as they are in your cultural group.

Meanwhile you can wait for a border claim/save our cultural/religious brethren event on Smolensk. There is no quick guaranteed way to form Russia, you need to rely on luck or time to core the necessary provinces.

Go after the GH now and try and grab as many Tartar provinces as possible so you can culture convert them. And watch out for the OE their troops are much better than yours early on.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Yeah smack the Ukraine around. You want all those Ruthenian provinces anyway as they are in your cultural group.

Meanwhile you can wait for a border claim/save our cultural/religious brethren event on Smolensk. There is no quick guaranteed way to form Russia, you need to rely on luck or time to core the necessary provinces.

Go after the GH now and try and grab as many Tartar provinces as possible so you can culture convert them. And watch out for the OE their troops are much better than yours early on.

Just watch out - you might lose any colonists that are in progress when you form Russia.

 

[lordkestrel]

If you are patched to 5.1, the best way is to follow the missions. You'll end up with rather large tax + manpower increase + cores for all the provinces you need to form Russia. And then you'll gain missions to beat up the hordes, gaining additional cores in the process.

Following the missions gets you a minimum of an extra 8 base tax and 7 manpower. If you do it right however, you can keep doing the Golden Horde mission over and over again, gaining a core and +1 manpower/tax in the process.

 

[macphineas]

...If you do it right however, you can keep doing the Golden Horde mission over and over again, gaining a core and +1 manpower/tax in the process.

How does one do that? In the mission file, it says you can't have any GH cores for the mission to show up.

 

[grommile]

How does one do that? In the mission file, it says you can't have any GH cores for the mission to show up.

Hand them off to a vassal? Religious conversion, enabling the Cultural Assimilation event with its drastically decreased MttH for Tartar provinces owned by Slavs, followed by Enforce Cultural Unity after cultural assimilation?

 

[lordkestrel]

Hand them off to a vassal?

This is one way. You can't do Cultural Unity because the Golden Horde has to exist. But if you keep getting rid of their cores by giving them to a vassal, you can keep doing the mission over and over again. The downside is that you have to be at peace to sell the province, so you'll either always be at -3 stability from breaking the truce to declare war again, or you'll have to wait 5 years in between missions. Neither is a very good solution.

The other way is to just let the horde conquer the province back, and then recolonize. It has a lot of luck involved, but assuming that you can complete a mission cycle every 3 years, that's only 30 years to add 10 basetax/manpower to a province. Compared to the selling provinces method it is less painful (no WE/stability penalty for breaking a truce), but also far more dependent upon the AI following your plans.

 

[Wheem]

If you are patched to 5.1, the best way is to follow the missions. You'll end up with rather large tax + manpower increase + cores for all the provinces you need to form Russia. And then you'll gain missions to beat up the hordes, gaining additional cores in the process.

Following the missions gets you a minimum of an extra 8 base tax and 7 manpower. If you do it right however, you can keep doing the Golden Horde mission over and over again, gaining a core and +1 manpower/tax in the process.

I've been following all my missions, but there aren't any Russian/Muscovite-specific missions that give cores on Smolensk or Chernigov. I remember reading something about a mission (generic, I suppose) that involved taking one or both of those provinces from someone with a non-Russian culture or non-Orthodox religion, but I dunno much about it. If that's not too likely to happen, I may just get stuck waiting a full 50 years after conquering a province

I'm thinking I might just take Chernigov from Ukraine, and cross my fingers that I'll get a generic mission or event for Smolensk. I'd prefer not to go to war with Poland (my ally), but I don't think they're weak enough for Smolensk to re-form. If it came down to it, I could bite the bullet and attack the Poles in order to get a core and form Russia. For the motherland, of course, and not simply my own imperial ambitions

 

[brifbates]

I've been following all my missions, but there aren't any Russian/Muscovite-specific missions that give cores on Smolensk or Chernigov. I remember reading something about a mission (generic, I suppose) that involved taking one or both of those provinces from someone with a non-Russian culture or non-Orthodox religion, but I dunno much about it. If that's not too likely to happen, I may just get stuck waiting a full 50 years after conquering a province

I'm thinking I might just take Chernigov from Ukraine, and cross my fingers that I'll get a generic mission or event for Smolensk. I'd prefer not to go to war with Poland (my ally), but I don't think they're weak enough for Smolensk to re-form. If it came down to it, I could bite the bullet and attack the Poles in order to get a core and form Russia. For the motherland, of course, and not simply my own imperial ambitions

The mission "Save the Russian People" and the religious one (Save our Orthodox Brethren?) seem to have a reasonably good chance to pop up. As long as the bad guys don't convert your targets there's a pretty decent chance you'll get it. However, if you have a decent CB to grab one without a core I'd be inclined to do it sooner rather than later.

 

[Wheem]

Hmm, I have a question; If I forced Kiev to become a vassal, and end up force-annexing them later, will I get a core on Chernigov? (Ruthenian culture if I remember correctly, which I think is in the Russian group)

 

[pyroclastic]

Hmm, I have a question; If I forced Kiev to become a vassal, and end up force-annexing them later, will I get a core on Chernigov? (Ruthenian culture if I remember correctly, which I think is in the Russian group)

Only if a) you have a mission that grants the core and b) Chernigov is the capital of Ukraine, I think.

 

[Wheem]

Poland apparently doesn't want me to form Russia...They declared war on Kiev while I was still contemplating how I wanted to go about things, so I had to jump on Ukraine right away, but did manage to snag Chernigov (along with 1 other province) from them. The Poles managed to convert Smolensk to Catholicism, and then declared war on me (even though "they trust us utterly" - those jerks!) when I pursued the mission to vassalize Smolensk (whose only province is Kholm).

And of course Bohemia decided to be a vulture and declare on Poland while I'm having to do all the dirty work of fighting their armies. I suppose it may be best to let Poland keep Smolensk in the peace deal though, since that leaves me the option of getting lucky with a mission/event for a core on the province (though since it's Catholic now, I think I can only get the liberate-our-cultural-brethren one). Otherwise, it'll be 1473 before I can form Russia (boohoo ). Maybe by then I'll be in a position to grab my cores from the Golden Horde, they just squeaked by surviving this last war with me...They used that neat magic trick of pulling a 20 regiment army out of their backside when my manpower was totally bottomed out and ~15k men shy of full strength