Advice for going full HRE for 1st time (in EU4) -- (w/ current status pics)

[Palatinus Germanicus]

(need help w/ some deep analysis of my situation)

I did it several times in EU3, but I realized 2 things I'd never actually done in EU4 was A) steal the emperor's crown and B) restore the HRE nation state. Thought I'd try to knock both those out, as the Palatinate. I was going to title this thread, "Imperial Authority is too difficult to obtain". But then I thought, well, let's not be presumptive... and see what people have to say. 1 thing though; in EU3 when you'd release/liberate a prince, you got 10 IA. Plus there were other times, you'd get it. If all that were the case in EU4, I might not have any concerns.

Anyway, here's the situation:

My holdings, zoomed:
(I annexed extended-Montferrat, currently working on Milan. Other vassals are Corsica & Modena.)

Spoiler

The known world, political map:
(Allies are: Austria, France, Denmark, Augsburg, Saxony, Muenster -- those last 4 b/c they are electors)
(Rivals are Britain & Spain... and soon to be Austria)

Spoiler

HRE screen w/ coalition heat map. There's a few nations that don't like me, but there's actually no risk of potential coalition at all, so diplomatically I've "done my job" well. (IMO) But as you can see, I can't get any IA.

Spoiler

Religion in Europe:
(I've converted many heretics in the empire during my adventures... which maybe was a mistake, as I'll mention below)

Spoiler

I was going to diplo-vassalize Savoy, but I forgot to do it before I annexed Montferrat -- so I screwed that up. I was also easily able to diplo-vassalize Mantua, but as you can see Austria is conquering them... much to my annoyance. I'm actually going to rival Austria over this (because I want Mantua, plus as you can see, I need another rival). It's just time to rival Austria, anyway. Need to release Tirol, Styria, etc... before 1594. And next time I fight Bohemia, I can make 'em release Nitra... those are already HRE provinces.

Castille/Spain actually had all of Holland, Hainaut, Brabant, and the still have Flanders. I managed to grab Limburg, Luxemburg & eastern Burgundy. -Those were the borders I wanted. 1 more war to get them to release Flanders... and hopefully I can manage to diplo-vassalize Flanders (might take a while?) -- but I'll protect to them from France, in any case.

As for my own holdings in Germany/HRE, I only want 1 more territory; Cleves... to complete that state in the Cologne/Köln area. I'll be taking that soon. After Austria cores Mantua, and adds them to the HRE, I'm going to rival Austria (for several reasons).

The 'League War' event has not happened. There are no factions, yet. At this point, I'm not sure if I should convert illegal territorry offenders to Catholic, or not. I've got some offenders out there I can go work on, plus Friesland is about to eat (Westphalian) Cologne. I always have a chance to convert them & their allies, but should I? Or do I need a 'strong' Protestant presence, in order to get the League War to happen?

At this point, I'm not sure what to do... other that sit around for several centuries & hope I can actually get get a positive IA tick. Going crazy & conquering is pointless, if I can't even retain the IA I manage to get. The only reason I currently have any, is b/c I recently had 2 successions within the last 7 years or so.

Anyway, my goal was to restore the Palatinate Wittelsbachs to the throne of the HRE, and then fully centralize it, once more Then eventually go full-Carolingian (probably using the extra IA to help get it done). But I just don't see the path... to getting enough Imperial Authority. Maybe in 1800, I'll just cheat, and give it to myself. That would be a 'hollow victory', though, to say the least.

edit: I actually have a modifier giving me more IA right now. The situation is actually not good. It's typically been around -0.17 per month, for most of my time on the throne.

 

[Dominion]

If your only goal is to pass all reforms you can throw your plans out the window, annex all of Europe except HRE nations, wait for dip23, add everything at once to pass the first few reforms, spam 100 client states and start gaining >1IA per month followed by waiting on speed5 until you're done.


EDIT: Just use that as a general hint for every EU4 related question. Most of the stuff can currently be done in under 30 years if you wait for lategame to hit. It's a really easy patch.

 

[Palatinus Germanicus]

If your only goal is to pass all reforms you can throw your plans out the window, annex all of Europe except HRE nations, wait for dip23, add everything at once to pass the first few reforms, spam 100 client states and start gaining >1IA per month followed by waiting on speed5 until you're done.


EDIT: Just use that as a general hint for every EU4 related question. Most of the stuff can currently be done in under 30 years if you wait for lategame to hit. It's a really easy patch.

I edited/added the last line to the OP, making the problem more clear. But to your point, I was actually hoping to A) get this done in the mid-game era, and B) not use gamey tactics. (spam client states, etc.)

In Eu3 the gamey tactic was to release vassals en masse, b/c you'd get 10 IA for every 'new' prince that was added to the map. Anyway, I think I'm gonna go ahead and proclaim what I was originally feeling: "It's too difficult to acquire Imperial Authority in EU4". My only hope is the league war... so I can straighten everything out and get a positive tick. But I don't know if it's even going to happen.

 

[Dominion]

I edited/added the last line to the OP, making the problem more clear. But to your point, I was actually hoping to A) get this done in the mid-game era, and B) not use gamey tactics. (spam client states, etc.)

In Eu3 the gamey tactic was to release vassals en masse, b/c you'd get 10 IA for every 'new' prince that was added to the map. Anyway, I think I'm gonna go ahead and proclaim what I was originally feeling: "It's too difficult to acquire Imperial Authority in EU4". My only hope is the league war... so I can straighten everything out and get a positive tick. But I don't know if it's even going to happen.

You made the bed you're lying in.

- Annexed half the HRE
- Allowed reformation to spread
- Asked too late to prevent leagues from forming (~1550)

Especially the last point. Can't pass any reforms after they form until they disband.
Since you want a catholic Empire and Diet of Vienna only happens if catholics are completely underpowered and still manage to win despite all odds being stacked against them (probably won't happen or will at least take an extremely long time) or if protestants disband themselves (~50 years) your midgame goal is gone already. Nobody can help you there.

From my POV it's like looking at someone coming into my office saying he stabbed himself multiple times and needs help fast, but please no doctor, paramedic, ambulance or really anyone with any kind of medical experience.

It's not too difficult to gain IA, it's just that you did your darndest to make sure you won't gain any.

Even without using gamey tactics you can't solve this mess during midgame (again, mainly because leagues will form, which you allowed to happen).

Lategame you can just annex land outside the HRE, then add it to the HRE. Gives 1IA per province.
Either add 50 provinces at once, pass a reform and move on to the next one or, if this is still too gamey for you, annex provinces, add them to the HRE, release vassals, then break vassalization.

EDIT: To give an example of a recent run of mine.

You have four more princes than I did when I started. I started converting and releasing after leagues were over. Revoked some time around 1680.

Started as a side project out of boredom. It's definitely doable, but still... Biggest difference between us is I wasn't the one owning all that land. It was other HRE princes and I could punch a lot out of them before passing Ewiger Landfriede.

In your case, the one who would need to get punched would be you.

Throw away that midgame goal, gain power elsewhere, wait until leagues are over and do it lategame.

Client states aren't necessary. You can see I didn't use them either.
But your HRE midgame is dead.

 

[Palatinus Germanicus]

Well, this was my first attempt at doing this. Normally I just do what you see here (but even more aggressive (using more vassalizing), and form Germany. So what should I have done to get the League War to trigger, and can it still happen? All I need is the factions to form, and then 30 years of them failing to go for it, right? Can't the Protestant League still happen?


Edit: maybe I'll just have to 'mod' my game. As in: "I hereby declare I have played well... and therefore deserve more Imp. Auth." Thus I make it so.

-Hey, since I don't really think the IA accumulation system is... uh, fair & balanced? ...I think I can live w/ myself. Still not the same as 'really doing it', but whatever.



I know... maybe I can just reconquest-war, rival-war & holy-war like crazy, and accumulate tons of prestige... and abdicate every 20 years, like clockwork! 10 IA... 10 IA... YESsss

 

[Dominion]

Well, this was my first attempt at doing this. Normally I just do what you see here (but even more aggressive (using more vassalizing), and form Germany. So what should I have done to get the League War to trigger, and can it still happen? All I need is the factions to form, and then 30 years of them failing to go for it, right? Can't the Protestant League still happen?

Your biggest problem is that it will happen. I'm asking you to give up on hoping to get anywhere midgame.
Sitting at -0.17 means you can completely ignore IA for a long time.
Even if you give it your all you won't get positive before leagues fire and while leagues are active you are prohibited from passing reforms.

My advice is to start expanding outside the HRE, but still inside Europe for several reasons.

- You have to endure increased AE when annexing or vassalizing HRE members
- Culture/Religion mean you're suffering even more AE
- European provinces can be added to the HRE once they are cored if they are next to HRE provinces, giving you 1 IA per province

In your position you want to break out of the HRE-AE hell into regions enabling you to annex more without having to check the heat map every five seconds.

Targets include England (except for its southeastern provinces, where you still have to be a bit more careful), Castille (jump in through Sardinia), Lithuania (requires you to break through Poland which still causes decent AE) or Denmark.

The latter probably being your best bet, since it also allows you to go into Muscovy later on.

Gobble up as many European provinces as possible and sit out leagues. After it's over you have increased your powerbase sufficiently and can slap some sense into heretic princes, force-converting them and forcing them to release nations afterwards.
Careful about releasing nations from heretic princes before they're converted. Chances are you'll end up releasing even more heretic princes.
Meanwhile (or afterwards) you can add 50 provinces, pass a reform, rinse and repeat until done.

Not sure what my passive gains were, but iirc I was sitting at ~0.10 because I allowed a few nations to blob since I wasn't focusing on it.
You should be in a similar situation, but in your case it's because you are the one who has blobbed inside the HRE.

For future runs I'd recommend not reducing the HRE as hard as you did.
If you want a peaceful and slow blobbing game there's still Italy to eat into.

 

[Palatinus Germanicus]

Thanks, Dominion. My plan is definitely not to take anymore HRE land (just Cleves... get the rest of that state... plus I just have ideas of what I want my borders to be - for now).

So I basically just need to go crazy at some point, and start expanding super-aggressively... form the HRE out of sheer blood-spilling glory. It doesn't matter what the development is, you get 1 IA per province. So I might use my (soon to be annexed) vassal Corsica, take Sardinia from Spain... and holy war my way around Africa & beyond to other Muslim lands. I hadn't planned on adventuring towards India... but hey.

Southern Russia & the steppes has low dev., also. I see what I need to do.

...I just think there should be... um, a more dynamically sophisticated way to do this -- diplomatically? Maybe they just don't want the HRE ever materializing in the game, save dramatic human involvement.

 

[Dominion]

Thanks, Dominion. My plan is definitely not to take anymore HRE land (just Cleves... get the rest of that state... plus I just have ideas of what I want my borders to be - for now).

So I basically just need to go crazy at some point, and start expanding super-aggressively... form the HRE out of sheer blood-spilling glory. It doesn't matter what the development is, you get 1 IA per province. So I might use my (soon to be annexed) vassal Corsica, take Sardinia from Spain... and holy war my way around Africa & beyond to other Muslim lands. I hadn't planned on adventuring towards India... but hey.

The province has to be in Europe in order for you to be able to add it. India won't help.
Provinces have to be Christian as well. You'll need to convert quite a bit if you plan to take provinces from non-catholics.
Check geographical mapmodes.

The Castille route is only beautiful because it's comparatively high-dev land with a goldmine and future trade income.

My personal favorite is balls to the walls into the Ottoman Empire and from Anatolia north into Horde land.

Denmark into Muscovy is also easy.

England is always a joke. If you've beaten them once you can beat them every single time in the future. Not very many provinces to add, but still.

Southern Russia & the steppes has low dev., also. I see what I need to do.

The easiest and most profitable route probably.
Low dev means low costs to annex, low AE, low everything.

...I just think there should be... um, a more dynamically sophisticated way to do this -- diplomatically? Maybe they just don't want the HRE ever materializing in the game, save dramatic human involvement.

It's one of the oldest non-reworked mechanics in the game.
I've only ever seen two screenshots of the AI passing all reforms. Personal AI highscore was a mere 4 and that was already a jawdropping moment.

Wouldn't accuse them of not wanting the AI to get it done. It just hasn't been touched in ages.
If you want to do it diplomatically you'd need to start a bit sooner than 4 years before leagues can form

Can definitely be done although diplomatically is a bit more difficult and requires lots of planning.
Special focus on CoRs, who need to get eradicated as soon as possible to not allow them to convert much, if anything, of your future Empire.

Blobbing and adding provinces to the HRE is still the easiest way to do it though.

 

[Parapluman]

Here's a guy who, in the current patch, revoked the privilegia by 1541.
He describes his methods in some detail.