Advice for Daimyos?

[balmung60]

I'm starting in 1444 as Ouchi and I want to use the (relatively) easy conversion to Catholicism that Daimyos get, but I also don't want to get annexed by the Shogun before I can do that. What's the best way to make sure he can't do that to me? If I'm larger than the Shogun, am I immune to diploannexation? Or will I need to secure actual independence somehow?

 

[Contiguous]

Well, when I played as the Emperor, I couldn't annex Hatakeyama because they had grown larger than me - one of the modifiers was something like -0.92 for them having more provinces. So...maybe?

 

[Nobak]

Diplo-annexation is not really your concern. For one thing, I believe you can cancel it. But more importantly, even if you grow too large for diplo-annexation, Japan still has an Annex Daimyo CB which it can use to bring all its other vassals against you.
This does also grant you independence, but that's only any use if you can stand against them.

 

[balmung60]

Diplo-annexation is not really your concern. For one thing, I believe you can cancel it. But more importantly, even if you grow too large for diplo-annexation, Japan still has an Annex Daimyo CB which it can use to bring all its other vassals against you.
This does also grant you independence, but that's only any use if you can stand against them.

I intend to become powerful enough to be functionally militarily immune to the Shogun (and to deprive him of all other vassals), but so far as I know, there is no way for the lesser member of any sort union to stop their overlord from annexing/integrating them short of warring for independence or for the annexation process to tick backwards for whatever reason (such as the overlord losing some diploreputation (death of a councilor or something) that they needed).

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

I intend to become powerful enough to be functionally militarily immune to the Shogun (and to deprive him of all other vassals), but so far as I know, there is no way for the lesser member of any sort union to stop their overlord from annexing/integrating them short of warring for independence or for the annexation process to tick backwards for whatever reason (such as the overlord losing some diploreputation (death of a councilor or something) that they needed).

It was very surprising to me when I first saw it, so much so that I thought it was a bug, but you can actually cancel any annexation/integration when you go to your overlord's diplomacy screen. The same place the button would be if you were doing the annexation.

 

[balmung60]

It was very surprising to me when I first saw it, so much so that I thought it was a bug, but you can actually cancel any annexation/integration when you go to your overlord's diplomacy screen. The same place the button would be if you were doing the annexation.

There's a "get out of annexation free" card? That pretty much completely eliminates the biggest downside to starting as a PU junior or vassal. I think I could potentially exploit this as Norway, too (colonize -> give up European provinces, preferably to Sweden instead of the Danes (if possible) -> move capital to the Americas -> Declare independence war -> Laugh as the Danes can't even touch me).

 

[pgroves]

It was very surprising to me when I first saw it, so much so that I thought it was a bug, but you can actually cancel any annexation/integration when you go to your overlord's diplomacy screen. The same place the button would be if you were doing the annexation.

That sounds like a massive bug to me! Do you even see this when playing Ironman?

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

That sounds like a massive bug to me! Do you even see this when playing Ironman?

Yes, but it's not a bug, it's just to make playing as a vassal slightly less stupid. I mean, the looming threat of annexation forcing you to wage war on your overlord is fine in Japan, but playing as Perm for example would be pretty much impossible if it didn't exist.

 

[Fullbordad]

Hi there, first post for me on the forums!

Been playing lots of Daimo runs lately, and I mean lots. However the only Daimos I have been able to conquer Japan with are Hosokawa and Ouchi. Since I'm probebly not that great of a player I guess my way of doing it is wrong but here it goes. Starting year 1444:

With Hosokawa you'll be running solo most of the time since pretty much everyone hates you. Start with allying Date and Takeda, pause the game when the first diplomat arrives home and go to war with Yamana before they get any allies. Exterminate their army and carpetsiege all their provinces and take everything except their capital. Take all their gold and tradepower.

Start forging a claim on Ouchi and wait for them to join some stupid war somewhere. If you're lucky they attack you and you will have some allies. Otherwise you'll probebly loose Date as an ally and they will join them. Not really a problem since Date sucks. This can go either way and sometimes you may lose the war and probebly a province. If this happens I'd restart and repeat the same steps again since you'll get steamrolled later on (in my experience). If you win the war, annex Ouchi. After that, just forge claims on everything around you whilst bulking up on dukats. War the ones who attack your allies or you and slowly take controll of the western Japan.

Get nine provinces and stick with those, Japan will only attack you if you have ten or more provinces from what I know. And now starts the waiting, start wars on other Daimos who are getting more power and force them to return provinces they've conquered, taking all their dukats is nice too. Now you should get like 600+ dukats and then wait for some rebels or something so the Japanese army splits up and then hire mercenaries. Just tons and tons of mercs and go to war on Japan. Quickly kill off any group of armies whilst blocking off all ports for warscore. Siege every japanese province and annex them.

Ouchi is another story, you'll have more allies and this should be abused. Go to war with Hosokawa (reconquest) and only take one province. Hopefully your allies will win this war for you, if not you're screwed. Get some claims on Yamana and pretty much take one province from them for each war, with the help of your allies of course. After that everything is situationall but get nine provinces and rince repeat the Hosokawa tactics.

Some random events will completely screw you, like leaders dying on you too soon. I can't say that it's easy to do this, but hey, there are worse countries to play our there! I hope this somewhat helps atleast!

/Fullbordad

 

[unmerged(184583)]

or you could get a big navy, trick them onto one of the islands and keep them there while you siege away... that tactic works wonders in many parts of the world, I could see it working there too.

 

[balmung60]

If I go independent, will I lose the Daimyo government (and events and other things) or do I get to keep that until I do something like become Japan and reform the government into a normal one?

 

[pgroves]

Yes, but it's not a bug, it's just to make playing as a vassal slightly less stupid. I mean, the looming threat of annexation forcing you to wage war on your overlord is fine in Japan, but playing as Perm for example would be pretty much impossible if it didn't exist.

Would certainly make it easier to play Norway...